Gordon Cole says Dale Cooper leaves a message saying that they have to try and find him, he's trying to kill two birds with one stone. Then Cole says "and now these two Coopers!"
What does Dale mean when he leaves this message? What are the two birds he's trying to kill? Either side of his personality? Good and bad, leaving only the real one?
I could be wrong (and I'll be interested if someone took it totally differently), but I thought he believed he could return Doppel-Coop to the Lodge and in the same process - I mean, as long as he was messing around with alternative dimensions and all - he could get to a place where he could change Laura's fate.
Gordon Cole says Dale Cooper leaves a message saying that they have to try and find him, he's trying to kill two birds with one stone. Then Cole says "and now these two Coopers!"
What does Dale mean when he leaves this message? What are the two birds he's trying to kill? Either side of his personality? Good and bad, leaving only the real one?
Cooper was trying to kill those two aspects of him that were irreconcilable after the Twin Peaks tragedy he experienced, the naive one that just loves the world/nature as it is(Douglas firs, coffee, viva las vegas, etc.) and ignores the problems/negativity, and also kill the one that could see right through people, read a situation, find who is guilty, sees negativity in everything and seeks to tear it out of its life, etc. Both of these sides became extremes that ran off automatically, refusing to admit that they had been destroyed(one seeking naive life in 'viva las vegas', integrated into nature, etc., the other tearing up the world in a wild search for Judy, or some kind of discovery that would solve the entire thing and restore him as he was before he entered Twin Peaks). The killing of the two birds is the sort of coming to terms with how he failed in Twin Peaks and his dreams about it were out of the rhythm of Twin Peaks default 'sleepwalking' life, slow decay, violent outbursts of nature, which also has extreme negativity in its core(vortex/void, Judy, etc.). Going through that thing with MIKE and Jeffries allows him to integrate the negativity and the tragedy of Twin Peaks back into the core of his thinking/dreaming existence, landing him right back where it all happened, with Laura in front of her house in Twin Peaks.....
The link with 'Richard and Linda' leads us back to Laura via Diane, and also explains the purpose of Richard in the series, who was also, like Mr. C, an automatic force of negativity, who knew the world was not fit for dreams, but thinking that nature/world had some solution, rather than its dumb/blind sleepwalking and natural violence. Thus looking around for stuff, destroying the world, rather than integrating it into themselves and seeing the limits of the world, etc., that its not fit for dreams, nothing to find there. Richard was trying to kill the well dressed man cooper, who tore up his family by hurting Audrey and dumping the family, he was still a kid, so he thought there would be some answers or justice out there, rather that the meaningless primordial stupidity of the blind force of nature, the 'world of truck drivers'; also this was Cooper and Mr. C's problem, both looking to the world for factual solution that would undo everything and give meaning to what they experienced.
There are also 'two birds' of Diane, when she sees herself at the motel, remembers the rape, that the 'factual' world, nature, is not fit for the dreams, that she must leave, that the 'happy ending' does not do justice or dignity to her, her dreams and what she has been through with the rape. This also disillusions Cooper, who is now Richard, has to integrate Judy, the negativity, and Mr. C part. Laura had also been caught in the factual world, ignoring the dreams, etc., looking to the world for answers, ended up with problems bubbling under and in Odessa, Texas, the 'world of truck drivers', where she killed someone finally after 'trying to keep a clean house' and getting no answers from nature/world/law, etc., even though 'she was young and it was not her fault'. Sarah Palmer smashed Laura's picture after Cooper made the happy ending, because Laura's looking to the world of truck drivers, instead of not liking the 'turkey jerky' or killing the truck driver at the elk lodge, is not doing justice to the original dreams of Laura as the shining hope of the community, most talented/beautiful, homecoming queen, etc.....So Sarah was right to smash her picture here. Laura had two birds as well (one like Mr. C, the one who shot the man in Odessa, and one like Dougie who 'tried to keep a clean house' in Odessa, the version of 'viva las vegas' for ordinary people). So six birds really killed here, two in Cooper, two in Diane, two in Laura, back to original trauma, cannot hide from Judy, the only answer from nature/world is meaningless silence and the continued march of 'sleepwalking' and stupid brutality, which Jeffries informs about, since he is permanently stuck in the 'convenience store/motel complex'......with a smoldering/extinguished fire/electricity....
The impression I got is he is attempting to take care of both BOB and Jowday/Judy at the same time. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
The impression I got is he is attempting to take care of both BOB and Jowday/Judy at the same time. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
But then how do you explain the clue 'remember 430, Richard and Linda, two birds with one stone' back in episode 1?
The impression I got is he is attempting to take care of both BOB and Jowday/Judy at the same time. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
But then how do you explain the clue 'remember 430, Richard and Linda, two birds with one stone' back in episode 1?
These did not have to be mutually inclusive. The statement could have been intended
Remember:
- 430
- Richard & Linda
- Two birds, One stone
Like a list of things he needed to remember. No just one thing/event.
The impression I got is he is attempting to take care of both BOB and Jowday/Judy at the same time. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
But then how do you explain the clue 'remember 430, Richard and Linda, two birds with one stone' back in episode 1?
Three different clues, I believe. Not one.
Edit: sorry Brandy, cross posts. Same idea. ?
The impression I got is he is attempting to take care of both BOB and Jowday/Judy at the same time. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
But then how do you explain the clue 'remember 430, Richard and Linda, two birds with one stone' back in episode 1?
While the clues need not necessarily go together, as pointed out, I think they do. I do not think BOB has been eliminated. Rather returned to the Black Lodge. I don't think he can be eliminated until his Mother, Judy/Jowday, is. We'll hear from BOB again.
The Fireman never said "kill", he just said "two birds, one stone." This could give a different interpretation than killing the two birds.
The Fireman never said "kill", he just said "two birds, one stone." This could give a different interpretation than killing the two birds.
One act, two outcomes?
I could be wrong (and I'll be interested if someone took it totally differently), but I thought he believed he could return Doppel-Coop to the Lodge and in the same process - I mean, as long as he was messing around with alternative dimensions and all - he could get to a place where he could change Laura's fate.
This is what I thought too. I'd add taking care of Mister C and BOB, while finding Laura and changing her fate.
My interpretation here was that by Cooper following 430 and by he and Diane becoming Richard and Linda he could save Laura from her death and rid the world of Judy by doing so. But in the last scene he realizes that his plan has failed. No idea if this is right at all. It was just my initial thought.
The impression I got is he is attempting to take care of both BOB and Jowday/Judy at the same time. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
But then how do you explain the clue 'remember 430, Richard and Linda, two birds with one stone' back in episode 1?
These did not have to be mutually inclusive. The statement could have been intended
Remember:
- 430
- Richard & Linda
- Two birds, One stone
Like a list of things he needed to remember. No just one thing/event.
Yes, but these things were all closely related, leading to one another in episode 18: 430 miles away leads to the switching over into 'night Cooper and Diane', then Richard and Linda the next day, finally eliminating the separation of Dougie/Cooper from negativity/Judy, killing of the two separate Coopers. All three parts of the 'list' are parts leading up to the final completion of 'the return', getting rid of the 'two birds', two Lauras, two Dianes, etc., culminating in the reopening of the main antagonism in Twin Peaks with Laura at her house, remembering what happened and coming back to the year/time, etc.
It does not make sense that Cooper could just kill Judy/negativity, since Jeffries showed how the symbol for the 'mother/Judy, etc., that was on Hawks map turns into infinite. Also, Cooper already attempted the 'happy ending' where he just 'fixes' everything factually, eliminating everything negative that occurred, restoring Diane, saving Laura's life, etc., which just resulted in the take over of the 'world of truck drivers', the 'sleepwalking' where all the problems are coming up again. We have seen that nature is cut open into a void/vortex, that it does not maintain itself without negativity, it is violent, etc., does not sustain dreams, then off of this negativity comes the human dreams about they can see things that nature does not provide, like Andy going through the cut/negativity in nature and getting dreams from the fireman. Cooper had to confront Judy and integrate it into his modus operandi, thus taking seriously everything that happened in the original Twin Peaks, that there is not going to be any 'quick fix' or simple factual 'happy ending' which could get rid of what happened there....Funny because 'Judy' here ends up being something that actually helps Cooper and Laura, and Cole and Briggs were trying to find it as well(Briggs head trapping Mr. C and the energy): Judy is negativity that allows Cooper the freedom to violate nature's violent tyranny, to confront the 'world of truck drivers' and 'Judy's Diner', break up Laura's life in Odessa Texas to go back to the scene of the original tragedy, finally return and get out of his Dougie mentality where just going along with nature and 'way of the world' is going to guarantee salvation......nature and people both have negativity inscribed in them infinitely, thus we have the freedom to dream of something better than nature and its blind force and brutality, we cannot 'factually fix' something and come to a final rest(for example, eliminate Judy or 'the mother', all finished, etc., Cooper who woke up in Vegas tried this solution, the result is truck driver life in Odessa, Texas, the everyday Dougie, etc.). On the contrary it is in the negative reaction to nature, in the dreams(say Cooper or Carl Rodds' dreams for community, justice , etc.) not present in nature, we have the freedom to violate its 'reign of terror' and slow decay....this is what Agent Cooper discovered after confronting Jeffries in the convenience complex, the site of the negativity, and then had to come to terms with it, face up to it, through the list of clues 430, Richard and Linda(becoming split again, becoming doppelganger, tulpa, etc.), now integrating the negativity in the reaction to the motel scene(nature still tearing them apart, leading to same problems), kill the split, dont let it run away, go to Judy's diner, and return to the site of the crime, Twin Peaks and Laura Palmer, killing the two birds.....
My interpretation here was that by Cooper following 430 and by he and Diane becoming Richard and Linda he could save Laura from her death and rid the world of Judy by doing so. But in the last scene he realizes that his plan has failed. No idea if this is right at all. It was just my initial thought.
Yes, but this negative failure to 'erase' everything that happened in Twin Peaks, failure to kill Judy and enact a positive factual solution, is the beginning of the situation that will be the reopening of the core mystery of Twin Peaks(Laura Palmer tragedy). the completion of the return is the failure to get rid of Judy, and to get rid of dreams and pain, the negative fall back into Twin Peaks, and the destruction of the 'positive solution' of eliminating Judy, which is proven to be nothing better than Odessa, Texas, the 'world of truck drivers' etc.. This is why Sarah Palmer smashed Laura's picture after Agent Cooper made the final solution and saved Laura from death, because he had damned her to Odessa, where her dreams would fail(shown by the homecoming queen picture) if she did not confront the infinite offensive horror of what had happened, then back to her dreams, confront with Cooper etc. Sarah Palmer was a negative force, what she did to that truck driver, saw the world/nature/positivity and its new 'jerky' as leading to the horrors that destroyed her family, thus Agent Cooper's positive solution, trying to eliminate Judy, horrified Sarah Palmer.....it was basically forcing Laura to accept the rule of those who had crushed her dreams shown in that picture(working at Judy's diner, harassed by 'truck drivers', etc.), also allowing Laura to hide from the implications of what had happened, etc.....
When Gordon is telling this story, he is talking about a conversation that took place some time after Briggs, Cooper, and he met and discussed Judy, but before Cooper was lost in the lodge. The message was "If I disappear like the others, do everything you can to find me. I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone."
So unless Cooper has prescient knowledge of events to come, like Briggs seems to, he wouldn't know about his doppleganger yet. The conversation is related to Judy so I'm assuming one of those "birds" is Judy.
On a rewatch it's also very confusing that Jeffries, before he sends Cooper to Feb 23rd 1989, he says "This is where you'll find Judy." It makes me think that saving Laura and finding Judy are the "two birds with one stone."
Then you have the Giant's message, "Richard and Linda. Two birds - one stone."
Somehow this makes sense right? Someone who is not as tired as I am should have a really good theory about that I'm sure.
Fire walk with