I would think the initial reference (where Cole retells Coop's instructions) was for saving Laura Palmer and destroying Judy. But other refernces just refer to the various dualities in the whole storyline.
I'm convinced the Fireman's words to Coop were a warning, not a shopping list of things to do.
The key word being "Remember". Like he'd already been down that road.
Remember what happened last time you went 430 miles and ended up as Richard and Linda?
"Two birds, one stone"
Either:
You can save yourself and time will return to normal if you stop,
Or:
Mother will get Laura and you if you don't stop.
What bothers me the most about the 'clues' is that Dale answered that he understood. Did he, really? (As we say in French, "C'est pas faux" -- "that's hardly wrong", which is a reference to a TV show where a character says that whenever he doesn't understand what he was just told.)
- If he did (which is likely since he immediately thought of 430 being *miles*), was it because of something that was told to him off-screen during the stay at the lodges? Or because he's self-aware and always was? Is the lodge a state of awakening, and then when he 'leaves' it, he starts dreaming that he's in Vegas then in TP?
- If he didn't, then why didn't he ask more questions?
Also, why the fuck didn't we get any clues as to what Dale was trying to do in the last episode? Why was Diane aware of it and OK about it? Are we not worth it?
Lynch is targeting his show to smart people who enjoy investigating his clues, but he constantly trolls them with non-clues, fucked up scenes and generally bad storytelling. Did he REALLY need to fuck up the timeline, especially in the Twin Peaks events? We understand that the lodges don't follow a linear timeline. So what, does it mean we have to go through the same in the real world?
Meh...
Sorry, I think it's still too early for me.
I don't think it was about trolling the audience. I think he - they - were trying to relate the experience of an unreliable, mutable and dangerous version of reality, as seen from the outside. All the strange lights, flashing windows, continuity "errors" and general weirdness showed the extent of how things change when you're not paying attention and sometimes even when you are.
The peripheral characters were, IMO, there to show that for most people, life goes on as normal, whether it's gambling debts, drug dealing, having affairs or just walking the dog.
Cooper gets totally lost on a wild goose chase and the world just keeps on turning.
What bothers me the most about the 'clues' is that Dale answered that he understood. Did he, really? (As we say in French, "C'est pas faux" -- "that's hardly wrong", which is a reference to a TV show where a character says that whenever he doesn't understand what he was just told.)
- If he did (which is likely since he immediately thought of 430 being *miles*), was it because of something that was told to him off-screen during the stay at the lodges? Or because he's self-aware and always was? Is the lodge a state of awakening, and then when he 'leaves' it, he starts dreaming that he's in Vegas then in TP?
- If he didn't, then why didn't he ask more questions?
Also, why the fuck didn't we get any clues as to what Dale was trying to do in the last episode? Why was Diane aware of it and OK about it? Are we not worth it?
Lynch is targeting his show to smart people who enjoy investigating his clues, but he constantly trolls them with non-clues, fucked up scenes and generally bad storytelling. Did he REALLY need to fuck up the timeline, especially in the Twin Peaks events? We understand that the lodges don't follow a linear timeline. So what, does it mean we have to go through the same in the real world?
Meh...
Sorry, I think it's still too early for me.
Too soon. Too soon.
Also yeah, it seems like Diane knows whats up. Even after she sheds her Naido skin Dale asks her if "she remembers." There's so much untold story here.
And yes, why is Diane hidden in a Japanese actress's body? Does SHE refer to herself as Naido? Did she take the French pronounciation of Diane, invert the letters, and decide to add a 'do' because that's how the Japanese would pronounce the final 'd'? Why Japanese anyway? And is Janey-E really her sister? Is her really name Japanesey-E? Is that alcohol in my glass? Who did that?!
Re: Diane, I too was unconfortable with Naido, who was set up as a very important character, and then turned out to be Diane in disguise. It's one of my disappointments about Ep. 17. Diane could have been "Billy", Naido could have been the bearer of important news through "Billy" (I had the feeling they were communicating, rather than "Billy" mindlessly repeating Naido's monkey/bird noises), and in the end I'm rather sorry for Naido, especially thinking back on her meeting with Dale and what she was trying to convey. Was she Diane back then, and was she trying to express the danger of Mr. C? No idea.
Whoops. Totally off topic. Two birds? No idea, again.
The infinite sign is shaped like a bird, with two wings and a "stone" in the middle.
Richard and Linda start with R and L, representing right and left, the right and left of the infinite sign.
On a rewatch it's also very confusing that Jeffries, before he sends Cooper to Feb 23rd 1989, he says "This is where you'll find Judy." It makes me think that saving Laura and finding Judy are the "two birds with one stone."
Something in the last few episodes made me wonder if Judy referred to an alternate Laura, but I'll be damned if I can remember what it was. Then I start wondering about a possible connection between a Laura-Judy and Garland Briggs. You know: kind of like Donna Hayward and Benjamin Horne. Maybe a longshot, but it would have the side effect of making any incestuous activities in 1989 between Laura and Bobby, not Laura and Leland.
Obviously the clue that Philip Jefferies gave Cooper was 2 birds with one stone. 2 owls/image of mother/experiment/Judy joined together make an 8 and then the stone inside. So you could say that the 2 birds are Judy/Sarah Palmer who he needs to kill and the stone is the golden orb of Laura that he needs to save to kill Judy.
And yes, why is Diane hidden in a Japanese actress's body? Does SHE refer to herself as Naido? Did she take the French pronounciation of Diane, invert the letters, and decide to add a 'do' because that's how the Japanese would pronounce the final 'd'? Why Japanese anyway? And is Janey-E really her sister? Is her really name Japanesey-E? Is that alcohol in my glass? Who did that?!
I think Naido as the name relates to Diane isn't terribly important. I think she is Japanese for a reason. She like the American Girl is a child of The Experiment, that is a nuclear explosion. They are of the nuclear age. Naido represents the Japanese victims. Her eyes scarred and healed over from seeing the blast close up. Naido is an important character and not simply Diane in disguise. She's her own entity. It seems the Real Diane was not able to leave the Black Lodge bodily. Having neither the ring or access to the Waiting Room or a portal. Naido acts as a vessel for her, protecting her. I think she is clearly inside Naido in the purple sea scene warnign Cooper not to use the wrong electrical outlet. She comes out inside of Naido with Andy. When Cooper touches her Naido releases Diane and returns. You clearly see some sort of entity in the waiting room as this happens. So Naido didn't cease to exist. At least that is my theory.
Here my best guess about what the two birds stand for (point 8)...
http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/twin-peaks-part-17-part-18/laura-is-the-dreamer/
Hope it helps eheh! 🙂
When Gordon is telling this story, he is talking about a conversation that took place some time after Briggs, Cooper, and he met and discussed Judy, but before Cooper was lost in the lodge. The message was "If I disappear like the others, do everything you can to find me. I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone."
So unless Cooper has prescient knowledge of events to come, like Briggs seems to, he wouldn't know about his doppleganger yet. The conversation is related to Judy so I'm assuming one of those "birds" is Judy.
On a rewatch it's also very confusing that Jeffries, before he sends Cooper to Feb 23rd 1989, he says "This is where you'll find Judy." It makes me think that saving Laura and finding Judy are the "two birds with one stone."
Then you have the Giant's message, "Richard and Linda. Two birds - one stone."
Somehow this makes sense right? Someone who is not as tired as I am should have a really good theory about that I'm sure.
I would not assume that one of the birds is Judy, the way I have it is that when they meet Judy, the negativity(cut into nature and cut inside of people, both are not self sustaining, they die, etc.) they realize there is nothing guaranteed for them, its like experiencing your own death. To avoid the implications of this, to deny Judy, one has to hide into two automatic 'tulpa' reactions to the blue rose/Judy, both of which deny Judy and try to kill it: Dougie, or Carrie Page, just try to integrate themselves into nature/world and pretend Judy does not exist, while Mr. C goes on a wild quest to try and 'kill' Judy or take it as property, both seeking the 'quick superhero fix' as if there is a way to erase the pain of what happened, their crushed dreams, etc. The return goes back to the 'zero level' of the pain to erase the attempts to hide in the 'superhero', someone is going to save you, approach and now facing up to the problems, to death, etc......from the infinite offense and pain of Judy and negativity, which gives the proper dignity to Twin Peaks and what the people went through there, its not like some simply injury that can be patched up at the doctors office then we go on happily(this is Odessa, Texas) but the infinite negativity and pain, infinite offense at the world for presenting us with horror not fit for dreams....., and in the negative reaction to this Cooper and Laura can become proper humans, not someone just following the 'beautiful day', sleepwalking and collaborating with the 'world of truck drivers'..... This is why killing Judy has already been done in 17 and at Lauras funeral(where Twin Peaks community ignored the troubles and their own guilt), this gets you nowhere, same problems on repeat, never touched etc., slow decay and violent outburst as society slides back into the primordial slop it emerged from.....'superhero solution' here is Chad 'enjoying the beautiful day'.....of Odessa, Texas..
It certainly seems like we fell into the Cooper mistake of thinking there might be a quick fix for something as negative and powerful as Judy seems to be. I suppose that's his infinite mistake. But it's also the core of his identity, the optimistic intuitive FBI hero.
Oh boy, not really any assumptions here. Just wild guesses. I feel like I'm shooting arrows at a target someone TOLD me was in the woods but I have to take it on faith that it's there.
And yes, why is Diane hidden in a Japanese actress's body? Does SHE refer to herself as Naido? Did she take the French pronounciation of Diane, invert the letters, and decide to add a 'do' because that's how the Japanese would pronounce the final 'd'? Why Japanese anyway? And is Janey-E really her sister? Is her really name Japanesey-E? Is that alcohol in my glass? Who did that?!
I think Naido as the name relates to Diane isn't terribly important. I think she is Japanese for a reason. She like the American Girl is a child of The Experiment, that is a nuclear explosion. They are of the nuclear age. Naido represents the Japanese victims. Her eyes scarred and healed over from seeing the blast close up. Naido is an important character and not simply Diane in disguise. She's her own entity. It seems the Real Diane was not able to leave the Black Lodge bodily. Having neither the ring or access to the Waiting Room or a portal. Naido acts as a vessel for her, protecting her. I think she is clearly inside Naido in the purple sea scene warnign Cooper not to use the wrong electrical outlet. She comes out inside of Naido with Andy. When Cooper touches her Naido releases Diane and returns. You clearly see some sort of entity in the waiting room as this happens. So Naido didn't cease to exist. At least that is my theory.
I really like the idea that the Naido Cocoon, which is how I'm going to think of her now (unable to see, communicate, or be recognized before she is released) is a callback to the nuclear explosion and a Child of the Experiment. It also fits with the Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima as part of the score.
Fire walk with