One last thing--we had a thing going about references to the Wizard of Oz, like the red shoes, the good/bad witches, Dorothy (played by JUDY GARLAND), etc. PJ in the bell is an awful lot like the Wizard of Oz hiding in his booth "behind the curtain."
Yes, Wizard of Oz works here well: Mr. C is on a wild quest to possess the void(that 'mother'/owl symbol), thinking it is some positive thing or 'wizard' pulling the strings behind it all that he will be able to control or posses, but all he finds is an ordinary guy, no 'wizard'. Here we find just Jeffries who went the same path as Mr. C but just ended up turning the world into that 'convenience motel'(his 'wizards control room') with no idea what is Mr. C is talking about and does not even care about Judy anymore. But still then who called Mr. C? Who is the next one that is going to try out Mr. C's wild quest for himself and is looking to get Bob's power from Mr. C?
What about the real Philip Gerard? We only saw him in the Red Room when he actually should be MIKE... But he is constantly credited as Philip Gerard also during episode 2 when this phone conversation took place. There wasn't any "voice of..." in the credits. And we didn't see him yet in the real world.
I could use some help on this as well tbh.....my first thoughts are as follows:
So if Gerard was in the red room, then maybe it could have been Mike 'calling' Mr. C with that sinister voice. Maybe we dont see him when his doppelganger arm took over and he becomes MIKE...., the one that says 'inexistence' to cooper and forces him to become the role of the passive suburbanite Dougie, rather than the 'tough' Mr. C. Maybe MIKE was tricking Cooper to become Dougie, so MIKE could come out into the open again, so that when he told him, 'youve been tricked', it was MIKE himself who did it, and now wants to keep Cooper alive in Dougie so he can continue his rampage.....Dougie/Cooper finally caught on and fried himself with that fork in the electricity outlet.....
On the other hand, maybe it was Philip Gerard who is simply trying to be a mentor to Dougie and thus misleading him down his path which accepts Bobs rule and tries to cut his own arm off out of guilt: Gerard is forced to take the garmanbozia(pain and sorrow) from BOB when his arm reattaches itself to gerard and says 'inexistence'. Inexistence guilts Gerard excessively for something he is actually trying to stop, but fails to accomplish, this guilt cripples him, since the good does not exist and all the blame is dumped on Gerard for this, which he accepts even if he could have done nothing more, since he was trying to be good and make up for what he did before. Gerard's arm enacts revenge for being cut off and enforces the deal made with Bob over the convenience store onto Gerard(just like it guilted hastings for trying to leave his wife for Ruth, demaning to him 'Whos your wife?', and 'mixed drinks on the beach', even though his wife cared nothing for him; and guilted Steven for not living up to his credentials as a 'high school graduate' when he failed to properly fill out that form, even though he was trying his best).
So, because good does not exist, or a defeat or injustice was imposed (now it is only as dreams, something not there but the antagonism with the unjust reality for something better, have to follow this as mediation process and representation, not direct presentation, to exist, does not directly exists, represented through dreams interacting with nature/reality, 'blue rose' abstractions, etc.). Then there is this funny thing which perpetuates the injustice: the guilty one is free to roam, but the one trying to do good accepts the guilt and becomes crippled from it. But on the other hand there is directly Bob and evil, the tyranny of nature's blind force not fit for dreams. So Gerard feels this direct tyranny of guilt for there not being good, for the primordial disconnect/failure/impossibility of void(from which dreams for something better come from) and in the same move accepts Bob's reign over the world and gives up his dreams, since there is only 'inexistence', then cuts off the arm again and tries to make up for the guilt, but is crippled by it. Mikes arm then forces him to be part of that world, to accept this world and he must accept pain and sorrow, be guilty for what Bob does and try to clean it up a little bit for 'presentation to the public'. Same reason why Bob and Mr. C are on a quest to possess the void, they both think that they can possess nothing, thinking that it is positively existing, something that they should be grabbing a hold of right away....but end up working with billionaires above a world they are turning into something slowly decaying into a convenience store/motel....
Ive check it again and confirmed it(unless my HD television setting are wildly wrong, even though it always looks fine): On an HD television all that you see is a black space/opening to the right of the teapot/bell, while on an sd/tube television you see clearly an archway/opening and you see the other room back there, its back wall, so there is definitely a room(seems like a control room) directly behind the teapot/bell machine......the real Jeffries could be back there controlling that machine
One more thing, on the sd/tube version of the scene, the lighting is much brighter, less black, more definition in general....and on the bottom right of the Jeffries/machine scene, there is a row of flashing white bars that can be seen very clearly on the tube/sd tv, they seem to be in the same rhythm of Jeffries' voice...although I dont have much more on the import/meaning of this so far
Alright, Ive watched it one more time, and the flashing row of white bars that starts flickering on the bottom right of the screen when Jeffries is talking is definitely there; and it now is confirmed a radiator. The radiator is flickering, but becomes solid as the teapot machine begins to disappear after Jeffries tells Mr. C that he has already met Judy and the phone starts ringing. Judy/'lady in the radiator's secret is revealed, and the dream of heaven/salvation from a 'lady in the radiator' disappears in that motel, the ultimate consequence of that dream which 'goes above the world' and turns it into a 'convenience store' while the radiator comes back into full focus.
This is something to do with the radiator from Eraserhead, and the 'lady in the radiator', Judy here. Mr. C/Bob wanted to completely gain Laura, and he wants to control the void/'mother' symbol, he is looking for the 'woman in the radiator' that was calling to him, that will somehow bring him direct salvation from his corruption and pain that the world inflicted on him, searching to possess something in the world(golden Laura) completely to enact a salvation; or in Eraserhead, it is salvation from the 'Philadelphia life', with the street violence, mutant child, and wild drunken promiscuity. Mr. C and the woodsmen cannot fully possess something that is a void/inexistent, all they can do is destroy the woman they think is the 'woman in the radiator'. So all Mr. C/woodsmen accomplish in their wild quest is the slow decay and destruction of the woman/world, turning them into their own 'convenience store', so that when Mr. C asks for Jeffries, to search of 'Wizard of Oz' or the 'lady in the radiator', all the woodsmen do is electrocute Sarah Palmer, harming her more into something that makes animal noises, like Naido. The only thing that happened to Laura from Bob's wild quest to possess her was her slow decay and self destruction, with salvation for no one. These people just end up ruining the world, by crushing out the dreams and turning the world into their 'convenience store', so that the end of it all is just sitting in that motel with the promiscuous 'convenience woman', not caring about Judy or the 'lady in the radiator' anymore. Thus, Jeffries tells Mr. C that he has 'already met Judy' and the radiator reappears, Mr. C reemerges from his wild quest/dream in that motel room and the radiator re-materializes, back to the world as it is now thanks to the wild dream of salvation; and Judy/Laura is now nothing more that the convenience woman, destroyed by the tyrannical dreams of Mr. C, who can now sit in there like Jeffries.
Another thing, right after Cooper picks up the phone and phases back out of the convenience store, after the radiator appears and he picks up the matrix phone, the first woman we hear about is Audrey Horne. Audrey was very special to the old Agent Cooper, so that now the coordinates of 'Judy', the 'Judy' Mr. C already met, may be coordinates to Twin Peaks and Audrey, who Mr. C will look to 'take over' as Bob was trying to do with Laura.
Another way to put the scene of Mr. C meeting Jeffries: Agent Cooper is the dreamer who exists, there in that motel room, and thats all there is to his dream now(just like he was so intent on finding his dream existing in Twin Peaks, which was 'anywhere but Philadelphia'). Agent Cooper's dream is no longer in an antagonistic relationship with reality, a non-existing dream for something better, but a fully existing reality he imposes 'above the convenience store'. Coopers saw his dream exist in reality in the 'old Philadelphia offices' when Jeffries appeared, so when Jeffries asks back then in 1989 'do you know who that is?', now we get the answer: Cooper is that guy in the 'convenience motel', with the convenience woman, let in the by 'bosom woman', Judy, that is the dream forced to exist against/above-beneath reality, rather than being rational/true (dis)connection with reality; and the working in antagonistic relation for true love, justice, is gone, just petty conveniences left, etc....
What about the real Philip Gerard? We only saw him in the Red Room when he actually should be MIKE... But he is constantly credited as Philip Gerard also during episode 2 when this phone conversation took place. There wasn't any "voice of..." in the credits. And we didn't see him yet in the real world.
I could use some help on this as well tbh.....my first thoughts are as follows:
So if Gerard was in the red room, then maybe it could have been Mike 'calling' Mr. C with that sinister voice. Maybe we dont see him when his doppelganger arm took over and he becomes MIKE...., the one that says 'inexistence' to cooper and forces him to become the role of the passive suburbanite Dougie, rather than the 'tough' Mr. C. Maybe MIKE was tricking Cooper to become Dougie, so MIKE could come out into the open again, so that when he told him, 'youve been tricked', it was MIKE himself who did it, and now wants to keep Cooper alive in Dougie so he can continue his rampage.....Dougie/Cooper finally caught on and fried himself with that fork in the electricity outlet.....
The guilt that Gerard pins on people(making them take the ring, etc.), as I attempted to describe above, can easily go right alongside MIKE on a rampage, and it does not have to be 'one or the other'. We have seen how Mr. C/BOB is on his wild quest, while at the same time forcing Ray to take the ring..... The agreement above the convenience store is about how someone needs to 'take the ring' in order for BOB to function continually, some kind of 'public cover' for his actions, give a world that would suit BOB's continued activity(like the passive suburbanite Dougie who will go along with crime and not cause problems)....Gerard serves this role unwittingly when he does not have his arm, but when the arm reattaches to him, he is consciously in on it...and may now want take the main role back from BOB...
Also, something I forgot to mention, funny how Mike(bobby's old friend from high school) who is now a car salesman, was one of the originators of the excessive guilt put on Steven: Mike yelled at Steven for not filling out the form properly, and now Steven is guilty to the point of suicide because he failed to live up to being a 'high school graduate'....which then led to Becky 'doing something' and the marriage falling apart...
He (she) says "I missed you in NY". So maybe the answear is simple - this is someone who was in New York in the glass box. Who was it? Same person who killed Sam and Tracy.
And this is someone who in the past was with BOB. This "Experiment" was in NY in glass box. And it was with BOB before he (she) spewed him out in 1945.
If Phillip Jeffries has become a huge teapot and he can talk like human , so the Experiment also can talk like human.
Does Gordon Cole ever intercept Diane's text messages directly or is he always supplied them 2nd hand via Albert?
Do we have any info on Albert & Jeffries working together apart from the incident that led to the contact's death in Colombia?
Watch Coop & Albert in the prison scene. There's something going on between them. Coop talks directly to Cole throughout but then he switches his attention to Albert. Why does Coop direct his comments about Philip & messages to Albert?
Does Gordon Cole ever intercept Diane's text messages directly or is he always supplied them 2nd hand via Albert?
Do we have any info on Albert & Jeffries working together apart from the incident that led to the contact's death in Colombia?
To my recollection, Gordon always gets the text info from Albert.
In the federal prison scene, Mr C looks at Albert when he says "I've left messages." That may imply they've worked together more than once.
Does Gordon Cole ever intercept Diane's text messages directly or is he always supplied them 2nd hand via Albert?
Do we have any info on Albert & Jeffries working together apart from the incident that led to the contact's death in Colombia?
To my recollection, Gordon always gets the text info from Albert.
In the federal prison scene, Mr C looks at Albert when he says "I've left messages." That may imply they've worked together more than once.
That is correct. The following scene with the blue light between Albert & Gordon is weird. Albert admits working with Jeffries & Coop without Cole's knowledge. This lead to the death of 'our man in Colombia'. Then Cole strangely says 'Albert, Albert, Albert.' Reminiscent of 'Cooper, Cooper, Cooper'. Then Albert sets off Cole's hearing aid by scraping his feet on the concrete. This isn't the first time he's set it off either.
I have a question.
As mentioned before in this forum, my knowledge of all-things Twin Peaks is a little shaky, so this question is about The Arm.
I get the impression, from FWWM and some scenes in the original run, that he/it is not really on the side of good. And yet.... in the beginning of The Return, he and Mike seem to be getting along pretty well. In fact, when they begin to sense something is wrong, the Arm says, somewhat sadly it seems, that it's his doppelganger (come to cause trouble, which he/it does).
So... is the Arm good now? Is Mike? Is the term "good" to broad?
Help a brother out here.
I know you've asked for a straight "good v bad" answer, but it seems to me that within the lodge entities the battle isn't seen in that way but rather order/balance/peace versus disorder/chaos/mayhem. In the best of situations, there is balance between the lodges. With Bob and Mr. C running amok, order is threatened. The Mike and arm/tree we see in The Return seem to be working toward restoring order, primarily by restoring Dale Cooper. To us, that's good. DoppelTree/Arm attempts to screw that up, which to us is bad.
I suspect that Mike's arm/tree as a long-time lodge entity can see the danger Bob and Mr. C running amok can pose, and that although formerly relishing the pain and sorrow inflicted to obtain garmanbozia, realizes that there are more important things than that. I view it as a maturing more than "turning good." They are who they are but Mr.C and Bob could change everything for BOTH lodges, and they don't want that.
Beg to differ here, James. The Red Room has in season 2 been called 'the waiting room'. It is no coincidence that the floor is half white half black. Hence all those we see in the Red Room are neither good nor bad, or both, or undecided yet. Does Dougie, coming up to the Red Room, belong in the White Lodge with the Fireman or in the Black Lodge (Mother/Experiment + BOB + 7 other inhabitants of the room 'above the coinvenience store' + the woodsmen)? Where does Leland fit in? Ray? Laura?
Beg to differ here, James. The Red Room has in season 2 been called 'the waiting room'. It is no coincidence that the floor is half white half black. Hence all those we see in the Red Room are neither good nor bad, or both, or undecided yet. Does Dougie, coming up to the Red Room, belong in the White Lodge with the Fireman or in the Black Lodge (Mother/Experiment + BOB + 7 other inhabitants of the room 'above the coinvenience store' + the woodsmen)? Where does Leland fit in? Ray? Laura?
It was also stated in Season 2 that Coooper was in the black lodge. Perhaps it is called the waiting room because that is where Cooper is going to wait 25 years until he is able to return. That "waiting room" would then represent a specific type of torment within the black lodge.
Annie mentions the Lodge, not the Black Lodge.
'My name is Annie, and I've been with Laura and Dale. The good Dale is in the Lodge, and he can't leave. Write it in your diary."
Fire walk with