Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
When all is said and done with The Return, what I am most interested to find out is how -- if it all -- the Mitchum Brothers fit-in to everything.
While I enjoyed, on a certain level, the extended scenes with the Mitchum Brothers in episode 11, it was then that I began to really wonder what their relevance is to the overall story. Don't get me wrong... I don't mind a diversionary scene or two. Not everything has to be of great import.
But the Mitchum Brothers have ended up featuring quite prominently, and I have a sinking feeling they won't really prove critical to the major plot threads we have going on. Now, that may be fine for some, but when we spend the greater part of an episode dealing with them, then I would like some pay-off down the road for that. And I don't mean BMWs and play sets.
What are your thoughts?
I've recently watched Silence of the Lambs and the Sixth Sense with my son. He had figured out all the major plot twists before they happened (Oh, Hannibal Lector has the cops face on. Oh, they aren't at the right house. Oh, he's a ghost). The vast majority of TV/movie crime/mystery dramas are easy to figure out or have twists that seem to be distortions of what we have seen.
The beauty of The Return is that it is impossible to know how any of this is related - if at all to any major plot threads. That assumes there are "major" plot threads that will be resolved at all.
Twin Peaks (and most other Lynch creations) is in an alternative universe that I enjoy exploring. Resolution or not. I just wish The Return had a bit more "scare factor" thrown in. I think that would make the more mundane bits easier for many to "accept".
I've recently watched Silence of the Lambs and the Sixth Sense with my son. He had figured out all the major plot twists before they happened (Oh, Hannibal Lector has the cops face on. Oh, they aren't at the right house. Oh, he's a ghost). The vast majority of TV/movie crime/mystery dramas are easy to figure out or have twists that seem to be distortions of what we have seen.
The beauty of The Return is that it is impossible to know how any of this is related - if at all to any major plot threads. That assumes there are "major" plot threads that will be resolved at all.
Twin Peaks (and most other Lynch creations) is in an alternative universe that I enjoy exploring. Resolution or not. I just wish The Return had a bit more "scare factor" thrown in. I think that would make the more mundane bits easier for many to "accept".
I enjoy how Twin Peaks forces me to think outside the lines. Being a fan of mystery I find the ride challenging and well designed with many unanswered questions. Life is not simple and resolved, but complex and full of unknown elements. So much fun.
I think they're there to help Dougie Coop and that's their role in the show. Same for Battling Bud. There could be more to Janey-E and Sonny Jim but I'm not sure what.
I'm so confused about some of the Vegas happenings. We've got another lady named Candy (though spelled different from Candie) who accompanies "Bill Shaker" from "Allied Chemical" who knows Dougie well enough to know where his front door is. Everyone lives on Arthurian themed streets (Merlin's Market, Lancelot Court). Dopplecoop has a casino playing card with the experiment's image on it. Bushnell took out some sort of policy to cover the $30mm payout to the Mitchum brothers. Nobody seems terrible concerned with Dougie still to this day (I mean he's been to the doctors, but c'mon. Everything is wrong with him, yet all they see is "hey, you've lost weight!")
Sonny Jim seems part pre-teen, part 4-year-old. We're not even sure how functioning he is. Janey-E knows more than she lets on...either that or she knows nothing. Candie (pink lady) is obviously whacked out too with something going on.
Add to that crooked cops, Anthony Sinclaire, Duncan Todd, and Szymons coffee house and I have more questions than ideas/answers.
I'm so confused about some of the Vegas happenings. We've got another lady named Candy (though spelled different from Candie) who accompanies "Bill Shaker" from "Allied Chemical" who knows Dougie well enough to know where his front door is. Everyone lives on Arthurian themed streets (Merlin's Market, Lancelot Court). Dopplecoop has a casino playing card with the experiment's image on it. Bushnell took out some sort of policy to cover the $30mm payout to the Mitchum brothers. Nobody seems terrible concerned with Dougie still to this day (I mean he's been to the doctors, but c'mon. Everything is wrong with him, yet all they see is "hey, you've lost weight!")
Sonny Jim seems part pre-teen, part 4-year-old. We're not even sure how functioning he is. Janey-E knows more than she lets on...either that or she knows nothing. Candie (pink lady) is obviously whacked out too with something going on.
Add to that crooked cops, Anthony Sinclaire, Duncan Todd, and Szymons coffee house and I have more questions than ideas/answers.
I'm so confused about some of the Vegas happenings. We've got another lady named Candy (though spelled different from Candie) who accompanies "Bill Shaker" from "Allied Chemical" who knows Dougie well enough to know where his front door is. Everyone lives on Arthurian themed streets (Merlin's Market, Lancelot Court). Dopplecoop has a casino playing card with the experiment's image on it. Bushnell took out some sort of policy to cover the $30mm payout to the Mitchum brothers. Nobody seems terrible concerned with Dougie still to this day (I mean he's been to the doctors, but c'mon. Everything is wrong with him, yet all they see is "hey, you've lost weight!")
Sonny Jim seems part pre-teen, part 4-year-old. We're not even sure how functioning he is. Janey-E knows more than she lets on...either that or she knows nothing. Candie (pink lady) is obviously whacked out too with something going on.
Add to that crooked cops, Anthony Sinclaire, Duncan Todd, and Szymons coffee house and I have more questions than ideas/answers.
You're right, Las Vegas seems to be the one location so far functioning in a very odd way. Everything is, well, off. Even the other locations have more straightforward plot lines, but Vegas is like a dream world, like a non-reality.
And those red balloons everywhere. And 1-1-9.
Dougie/Cooper in Dougie's life really does remind me of Chauncy Gardner from Being There.
There is nothing there but people project what they want onto him and he echoes and mirrors it back to them.
There is a theory that the scenes in the purple room have Cooper's consciousness not lining up with his body's arrival. A ten day gap. I will see if I can find the link I am finding that possible, so it is not a question of waking up, it is a question of surviving until the reunion of body and soul.
Yeah, I think much about how the things go in Las Vegas and particularly how people react on Dougie. First time I saw him I was sure he would be put in a mental facility or something - but it turned out magically well. Its not only the Black Lodge help, it seems everything around Dougie develops accordingly the narrative structure of a fairy tale - like, the environment never really confronts him, he can never be put into a situation he has no power to deal with; he gets help from some "magical agent", when such help is required - and he has sort of an ability to make people around his magical agents.
Being There is a remarkable film, and it's nice to know that Kyle M. watched it to help him prepare for his life in Dougie's shoes.
Where did the ten day gap come from? I've seen the theory of the 3 and 15 outlets in the purple room possibly relating to episode numbers. And Cooper entered through the 3, not the 15, so I'm hoping that he will be himself again by Episode 15.
I think there's a subtle criticism in the portray of Dougie's storyline. Did anyone notice that every relationship in Las Vegas has changed or has begun because of money? Everything is about money, even the dreamy full-of-love look JanieE is giving to Dougie lately. Every kiss he got, from JanieE to the old Casino Lady was because of money.
Las Vegas seems the perfect place to symbolize the power of money nowadays. And how every other issue is just put into sleep carelessly, if you still make money. (No matter if someone suddenly becomes a complete different person with a complete different body, or barely talking)
The ten day gap was the ten images of Dale traveling through the glass box as it stutters into multiple frames. I was thinking 12 personally for the same reason as you, I am quoting someone on Reddit that my brother linked to me so my lack of good citation is having me try to stick to their 10 days.
As for the money changing relationships that may not be a criticism of the art, but the art criticizing our world.
As for the money changing relationships that may not be a criticism of the art, but the art criticizing our world.
Excuse me?
Of course, thank you Jeffery! I forgot that the box in New York was stuttering back and forth. Wasn't it going forward and backwards several times? I'll have to rewatch that scene and count the number of times it goes in each direction.
I think there's a subtle criticism in the portray of Dougie's storyline. Did anyone notice that every relationship in Las Vegas has changed or has begun because of money? Everything is about money, even the dreamy full-of-love look JanieE is giving to Dougie lately. Every kiss he got, from JanieE to the old Casino Lady was because of money.
Las Vegas seems the perfect place to symbolize the power of money nowadays. And how every other issue is just put into sleep carelessly, if you still make money. (No matter if someone suddenly becomes a complete different person with a complete different body, or barely talking)
I agree, money affect the narrative hugely. But I don't think it's ALL about the money. Janie-E was loving even right after receiving an envelope with a Jade and Dougie picture.
Fire walk with 
