What we know: in Part 2 we learned that Mr C is after (wants!) whatever the symbol on the ace of spades card represents. Jeffries wants Bob. Presumably, Bob will only "be back" with Jeffries if Mr C returns to the Black Lodge (I realize that it's quite plausible that Bob may be off on his own at this point and Both Jeffries and Mr C are caught unawares). We also know that Mike (and/or the Arm) wants Mr C to return to the Black Lodge. He also isn't happy with Bob continuing to run amok (from og seasons and FWWM).
What we don't know: Who Jeffries is? Is he the same Jeffries from FWWM? Is someone else using his identity? Is he inhabiting someone else? Is he Mike? Further, is Mr C's plan his plan alone or Bob's plan or their plan (remember Bob took or annihilated Earle's soul who had similar ambitions)? What are Diane's intentions and who is she knowingly texting? Mr C, Jeffries or someone else?
Some more questions after the reveal in part 13:
- Are Jeffries and Mr C after the same thing and that "thing" can only be achieved with the help of Bob?
- Alternatively, is Jeffries working with Mike? Perhaps they have a plan for Bob?
- Or, perhaps Jeffries has "his" own plans, separate from either Mike's or Mr C's. He was initially played by Bowie after all.
- Does Mike (and possibly his arm) have his own plan and he's playing all the others as his mere puppets?
- Or, what if none of those; something better?
Personally, I think it likely that Mr C and Jeffries are after the same thing, but not necessarily with the same intention. I've been on board with the theory that Mr C wants to be an even more powerful entity for a long while now. Obvious evil intentions are attached and I'm thinking interdimensional take over. Can't really say too much about the intentions of Jeffries except to say, for argument's sake, that maybe he's more interested in restoring cosmic balance than he is in disrupting it further (for no other reason than duality/contrast). Diane's texts make sense with this line of thinking, but I'm sure there's a twist ahead.
While Mike (and his arm), in a more passive role and being a fifth dimension entity (assuming that Lodge folks are), can already see the various outcomes and probably prefers some to others. They also might change as he injects his influence into the earthly dimension. The only real cards he's shown this season is that he wants Coop to remain alive and he wants Mr C back in the Red Room. Yet he may be a puppeteer.
We seem to have a lot of sides being chosen going on thus far but several characters have yet to show their hand (e,g., Mike, Jeffries, Diane). Questions, questions and more questions.
What do you all think of the main players various plans?
What we know: in Part 2 we learned that Mr C is after (wants!) whatever the symbol on the ace of spades card represents. Jeffries wants Bob. Presumably, Bob will only "be back" with Jeffries if Mr C returns to the Black Lodge (I realize that it's quite plausible that Bob may be off on his own at this point and Both Jeffries and Mr C are caught unawares). We also know that Mike (and/or the Arm) wants Mr C to return to the Black Lodge. He also isn't happy with Bob continuing to run amok (from og seasons and FWWM).
What we don't know: Who Jeffries is? Is he the same Jeffries from FWWM? Is someone else using his identity? Is he inhabiting someone else? Is he Mike? Further, is Mr C's plan his plan alone or Bob's plan or their plan (remember Bob took or annihilated Earle's soul who had similar ambitions)? What are Diane's intentions and who is she knowingly texting? Mr C, Jeffries or someone else?
Some more questions after the reveal in part 13:
- Are Jeffries and Mr C after the same thing and that "thing" can only be achieved with the help of Bob?
- Alternatively, is Jeffries working with Mike? Perhaps they have a plan for Bob?
- Or, perhaps Jeffries has "his" own plans, separate from either Mike's or Mr C's. He was initially played by Bowie after all.
- Does Mike (and possibly his arm) have his own plan and he's playing all the others as his mere puppets?
- Or, what if none of those; something better?
Personally, I think it likely that Mr C and Jeffries are after the same thing, but not necessarily with the same intention. I've been on board with the theory that Mr C wants to be an even more powerful entity for a long while now. Obvious evil intentions are attached and I'm thinking interdimensional take over. Can't really say too much about the intentions of Jeffries except to say, for argument's sake, that maybe he's more interested in restoring cosmic balance than he is in disrupting it further (for no other reason than duality/contrast). Diane's texts make sense with this line of thinking, but I'm sure there's a twist ahead.
While Mike (and his arm), in a more passive role and being a fifth dimension entity (assuming that Lodge folks are), can already see the various outcomes and probably prefers some to others. They also might change as he injects his influence into the earthly dimension. The only real cards he's shown this season is that he wants Coop to remain alive and he wants Mr C back in the Red Room. Yet he may be a puppeteer.
We seem to have a lot of sides being chosen going on thus far but several characters have yet to show their hand (e,g., Mike, Jeffries, Diane). Questions, questions and more questions.
What do you all think of the main players various plans?
A fantastic post, loaded with terrific questions Caoimhin!
The Arm acts independantly from MIKE, and seems to know more about what is going on than what MIKE does. The only time they seem to be on the same page is when they physically reunite at the end of FWWM, and tell BOB that they want their garmonbozia.
(on a side note....Jerry's foot telling him that he is not his foot....the idea that Jerry is undergoing some sort of possession similar to what Philip Gerard underwent is fascinating! Will Jerry too see the face of God?)
MIKE can tell that something's wrong, but the Arm explains to him what it is.
Both MIKE and the Arm can operate in the physical world, and can influence events there. So far we've seen several observations of that:
- The Arm telling Cooper to squeeze Ike's hand off
- MIKE guiding Cooper to buy pies for the Mitchum brothers
- MIKE and the Arm getting into people's subconsiousness through dreams (ie: Cooper, Laura and even a Mitchum brother)
- MIKE telling Laura that Leland is BOB
So I have 2 questions that always circulate in my mind:
(1) What rules do these Lodge hosts operate by? Do they have rules? There seems to be a weird sense of order followed by all of them, even BOB. The Arm and MIKE seem to be able to control BOB at times, and BOB participates in their meetings (willingly or not?).
(2) What are the agendas of all the Lodge hosts? The Tremonds were a great example. I've debated with Twin Peaks friends as to whether or not the Tremond's were "good" or "bad" or "neutral" in what they were trying to accomplish. I see them as "good", as I felt they were trying to guide Laura to the truth, that BOB was inhabiting Leland, and after Laura died, they were trying to help Donna to find the secret diary which would lead ultimately to Cooper to discover that he and Laura were having the same dreams and were somehow interconnected.
I also feel that Annie was created for a purpose, in the same way that Dougie was created for a purpose. How utterly terrifying is that! That the Lodge inhabitants can not only possess humans, and invade their dreams, but that they can also manufacture "false" humans to "serve purposes".
I am beginning to think that Mike did not see the face of god and become good. That was either a lie or means something different. All of these questions center around them gathering pain and suffering and feeding it up to be used. I think they get their energy from fear, pain and negative emotions. The Tremonds grandson does say fell a victim in FWWM and thought that was commanding Bob to bring the gormanbonzia. All and all I don't think they have rules but a power pecking order. Bob is not on the top but appears to be really good at what he does. The doppleganger I think wants to live. And maybe Bob was hoping to use this vehicle to move about. But it all twists and turns.
And why genetic material in TSHOTP
I am beginning to think that Mike did not see the face of god and become good. That was either a lie or means something different. All of these questions center around them gathering pain and suffering and feeding it up to be used. I think they get their energy from fear, pain and negative emotions. The Tremonds grandson does say fell a victim in FWWM and thought that was commanding Bob to bring the gormanbonzia. All and all I don't think they have rules but a power pecking order. Bob is not on the top but appears to be really good at what he does. The doppleganger I think wants to live. And maybe Bob was hoping to use this vehicle to move about. But it all twists and turns.
And why genetic material in TSHOTP
If you're correct, in your belief that the Lodge inhabitants don't have any rules, that is even more terrifying in how they operate. It's chaotic that way. And a power pecking order is interesting too. So how many Lodge residents do we know of so far?
- The Experiment
- MIKE
- BOB
- The Arm
- The Giant
- ??????? (maybe one and the same as the Giant?)
- Senorita Dido
- Mother (maybe one and the same as the Experiment?)
- The Electrician
- The Jumping Man
- Woodsmen (2 that we've seen in the Convenience Store)
- Mrs. Tremond
- Mrs. Tremond's grandson
- Jimmy Scott
- and finally, one doppelganger for everyone
Great post, Caoimhin! There is yet another question I have after reading your post. All the way back in episode 1 when the Fireman said, "It is in our house now." What is the significance of this statement? I can't help but feel that the Fireman's revelation is a fundamental piece of the whole mystery.
I also hope we find out what Laura whispered into Cooper's ear. The first time she whispered into his ear, it was extremely significant. But that didn't even make his literally gasp out as he did with the second whisper!
Great post, Caoimhin! There is yet another question I have after reading your post. All the way back in episode 1 when the Fireman said, "It is in our house now." What is the significance of this statement? I can't help but feel that the Fireman's revelation is a fundamental piece of the whole mystery.
So it's been confirmed that is what the Giant's new name is?
Some of my personal beliefs/opinions about the whole thing ....
- I believe Jeffries is a fundamentally "good" character.
- I don't think it was Jeffries that spoke with Mr. C (it could have possibly been Mike, or an entirely new character).
- I think Mr. C's ultimate goal is transformation from merely a doppellganger to a true spirit in the nature of BOB and Mike.
- The shape on the playing card represents a primordial evil presence (the same that vomits the eggs and BOB in ep8).
- Mr. C believes that this presence is the key to transformation.
- Entities of the Black Lodge have been extremely active in the Twin Peaks area since the original show. All we have to do is look at the "pain and sorrow" (ie. garmonbozia) that continues to infest Twin Peaks. It's a veritable buffet for Black Lodge entities.
- We will never again see the original Dale Cooper.
- We will see Richard and Mr. C have some kind of revelatory meeting together.
Great post, Caoimhin! There is yet another question I have after reading your post. All the way back in episode 1 when the Fireman said, "It is in our house now." What is the significance of this statement? I can't help but feel that the Fireman's revelation is a fundamental piece of the whole mystery.
I think that scene takes place in the future and maybe the Woodsman are in the White Lodge and Mr C (and Bob) are on their way and need to be stopped. The Giant/Fireman is telling Coop to put out the fire.
I also hope we find out what Laura whispered into Cooper's ear. The first time she whispered into his ear, it was extremely significant. But that didn't even make his literally gasp out as he did with the second whisper!
My thought for a while has been that she whispered the name of the one who kidnapped her.
Coop's reaction to her whisper: She said "James is singing at the Road House." 😉
What we know: in Part 2 we learned that Mr C is after (wants!) whatever the symbol on the ace of spades card represents. Jeffries wants Bob. Presumably, Bob will only "be back" with Jeffries if Mr C returns to the Black Lodge (I realize that it's quite plausible that Bob may be off on his own at this point and Both Jeffries and Mr C are caught unawares). We also know that Mike (and/or the Arm) wants Mr C to return to the Black Lodge. He also isn't happy with Bob continuing to run amok (from og seasons and FWWM).
What we don't know: Who Jeffries is? Is he the same Jeffries from FWWM? Is someone else using his identity? Is he inhabiting someone else? Is he Mike? Further, is Mr C's plan his plan alone or Bob's plan or their plan (remember Bob took or annihilated Earle's soul who had similar ambitions)? What are Diane's intentions and who is she knowingly texting? Mr C, Jeffries or someone else?
Some more questions after the reveal in part 13:
- Are Jeffries and Mr C after the same thing and that "thing" can only be achieved with the help of Bob?
- Alternatively, is Jeffries working with Mike? Perhaps they have a plan for Bob?
- Or, perhaps Jeffries has "his" own plans, separate from either Mike's or Mr C's. He was initially played by Bowie after all.
- Does Mike (and possibly his arm) have his own plan and he's playing all the others as his mere puppets?
- Or, what if none of those; something better?
Personally, I think it likely that Mr C and Jeffries are after the same thing, but not necessarily with the same intention. I've been on board with the theory that Mr C wants to be an even more powerful entity for a long while now. Obvious evil intentions are attached and I'm thinking interdimensional take over. Can't really say too much about the intentions of Jeffries except to say, for argument's sake, that maybe he's more interested in restoring cosmic balance than he is in disrupting it further (for no other reason than duality/contrast). Diane's texts make sense with this line of thinking, but I'm sure there's a twist ahead.
While Mike (and his arm), in a more passive role and being a fifth dimension entity (assuming that Lodge folks are), can already see the various outcomes and probably prefers some to others. They also might change as he injects his influence into the earthly dimension. The only real cards he's shown this season is that he wants Coop to remain alive and he wants Mr C back in the Red Room. Yet he may be a puppeteer.
We seem to have a lot of sides being chosen going on thus far but several characters have yet to show their hand (e,g., Mike, Jeffries, Diane). Questions, questions and more questions.
What do you all think of the main players various plans?
A fantastic post, loaded with terrific questions Caoimhin!
The Arm acts independantly from MIKE, and seems to know more about what is going on than what MIKE does. The only time they seem to be on the same page is when they physically reunite at the end of FWWM, and tell BOB that they want their garmonbozia.
(on a side note....Jerry's foot telling him that he is not his foot....the idea that Jerry is undergoing some sort of possession similar to what Philip Gerard underwent is fascinating! Will Jerry too see the face of God?)
MIKE can tell that something's wrong, but the Arm explains to him what it is.
Both MIKE and the Arm can operate in the physical world, and can influence events there. So far we've seen several observations of that:
- The Arm telling Cooper to squeeze Ike's hand off
- MIKE guiding Cooper to buy pies for the Mitchum brothers
- MIKE and the Arm getting into people's subconsiousness through dreams (ie: Cooper, Laura and even a Mitchum brother)
- MIKE telling Laura that Leland is BOB
So I have 2 questions that always circulate in my mind:
(1) What rules do these Lodge hosts operate by? Do they have rules? There seems to be a weird sense of order followed by all of them, even BOB. The Arm and MIKE seem to be able to control BOB at times, and BOB participates in their meetings (willingly or not?).
(2) What are the agendas of all the Lodge hosts? The Tremonds were a great example. I've debated with Twin Peaks friends as to whether or not the Tremond's were "good" or "bad" or "neutral" in what they were trying to accomplish. I see them as "good", as I felt they were trying to guide Laura to the truth, that BOB was inhabiting Leland, and after Laura died, they were trying to help Donna to find the secret diary which would lead ultimately to Cooper to discover that he and Laura were having the same dreams and were somehow interconnected.
I also feel that Annie was created for a purpose, in the same way that Dougie was created for a purpose. How utterly terrifying is that! That the Lodge inhabitants can not only possess humans, and invade their dreams, but that they can also manufacture "false" humans to "serve purposes".
About the Arm: excellent points. They are independent, yes, true. Mike cutting off his arm wasn't just symbolic he was physically removing his evil. It makes sense that they have have differing agendas and hold separate knowledge. I think of them as two halves of the same brain. Distinct yet share a source. Ever read about epileptic patients that have had their corpus callosum severed? I think about them along those lines, but operating more independently. I agree that it appears that his Arm knows more and appears to command Mike sometimes, but I think Mike knows more than he lets on. He also seems much more neutral. The Arm has always seemed to enjoy messing with people.
About Lodge rules: I agree with others, mostly, in that there are not a lot of rules with Lodge entities, aside from location (Black or White Lodge), but there is a definite hierarchy of power.
About Lodge agendas: I don't think we'll ever know the inner workings of Lodge beings or the true nature of the hierarchy. But here are some thoughts:
- There are entities that go about consuming their garmonbozia, for instance, on autopilot and don't care much about anything or give thought to much else. They're lost souls, I guess, or animal-like and don't understand that or don't care. They follow orders (Woodsman).
- There are also entities that care or think about abstract concepts/purposes and do what they're able to do to change the actions of other Lodge entities or events that occur in the earthly realm/dimension, because it ultimately affects their dimension and their own existence. They appear to work for the greater Good, in some cases, or cosmic Good but might not necessarily be Good. In other words, mostly neutral but prefer outcome A to outcome B in specific cases (Tremond, American Girl, Mike, etc).
- There are also those that care not a whit about ascending to the White Lodge or the Good Evil dichotomy, because they enjoy creating and consuming garmonbozia and satisfying their own desires (Bob).
- There doesn't appear to be a larger teleology at work amongst most aside from the Giant/??????? and Experiment/Mother (Mr C as well but he's not in the same class). The latter two are the most powerful entities that we've seen thus far.
- Something, something . . . Other stuff that I haven't thought of, etc . . .
Thanks for your thoughts Caoimhin. The Lodge entities for me, especially after watching FWWM, have always been fascinating. I think they are David Lynch created entities, and that Mark Frost only added to their mythologies (such as TSHOTP). But they are important because they have always been an integral part to the plot of Twin Peaks. Laura's death is what brought Cooper to Twin Peaks in the first place.
So about MIKE. We know he cut his own arm off, and that the Arm had a tattoo on it saying "Fire Walk With Me".
We also know that whoever puts on the ring made of the formica table top, that their left arm will go completely numb to the point that they can't use it.
- Teresa Banks - we know she wore the ring and that her left arm went numb. the ring disappeared off of her finger when she died.
- Dougie - we saw that his left arm was numb.
- Annie - she was wearing the ring, but was unconscious, so we can only assume that her left arm would have been numb. Of course, her fate is unknown.
- Annie's nurse - she stole Annie's ring in the Missing Pieces, but her fate is unknown.
- Laura - she wore the ring when MIKE threw it to her just before BOB killed her.
- Cooper's Doppelganger - Ray told him that Philip Jeffries wanted him to put the ring on his finger.
So.....just so I think all Twin Peaks fans can agree that this has been established as truth:
(A) The ring belongs to MIKE. And that the wearer of the ring becomes a host for MIKE.
("With this ring, I thee wed.") - meaning that whoever wears the ring, becomes in a union with MIKE.
(B) MIKE always gets his ring back, as when the person who is wearing it, upon their death, their body enters the Red Room. We saw this with our own eyes with Dougie and with Ray. We can only assume that it happened to Teresa. When MIKE gets his ring back, he puts it on the black and gold table, where it always sits when it is not worn.
(C) MIKE wanted Laura to wear the ring in the train car before Laura's death, to prevent Laura from being possessed by BOB. We know from Laura telling Harold, and from reading her diary, that BOB was trying to posess her, but she wouldn't let him. So MIKE saved Laura from being possessed by BOB, although it resulted in her death.
So if we all agree that the above is all true, my question is, why in FWWM, did the Arm show Laura the ring in her dream, as if enticing her to wear it, but Cooper warned Laura: "Don't take the ring Laura."? (which impossibly skews time).
Lynch could have shown MIKE offering the ring to Laura in that dream but instead, it was the ARM that Lynch chose to show offering it to her.
Yet, MIKE (while inside Phillip Gerard) directly told Laura in person that BOB was inside Leland, while showing her the ring on his own hand. That caused Laura to remember the 2 other times she saw that ring: on Teresa's finger and in her dream of The Arm and Cooper.
So I conclude that MIKE created Dougie for the purpose of helping get Cooper out of the Black Lodge and back onto Earth. Knowing that Cooper's doppelganger was not going to follow the rules of coming back into the Black Lodge, and that that meant that Cooper couldn't leave the Black Lodge, he decided to create the artificial Dougie, and to guide him into having his own life in Las Vegas, only so that Cooper would take his place. MIKE could then guide Cooper safely through life until the time comes on October 1st (2:53 time and time again) for Cooper and his doppelganger to confront each other, where one has to return to the Black Lodge. MIKE has worked hard to keep Cooper safe, and the life of Dougie was a safe out of the way place to keep him until the doppelganger would return to Twin Peaks.
But that leaves us with the 4 most important questions that we don't have answers to yet (and hopefully we will get them!):
(1) What will bring Cooper's personality back? His doppelganger's death? His shoes?
(2) What is Cooper's doppelganger's motives for doing what he is doing, what does he WANT? That question involves the playing card he showed to Darya, which looks a lot like "The Experiment" from Episode 8 (not "The Experiment Model" from Episode 1 and 2)
(3) Since we know that BOB and Cooper's doppelganger are 2 different entities, do they have separate agendas and motives, are they symbiotically helping each other, or is BOB manipulating the Doppelganger for his own purposes?
(4) How does the town of Twin Peaks figure into all of this? We know that Glastonbury Grove is the accessible location of one of the openings into the Black Lodge. But why do the residents of Twin Peaks become affected by Lodge activity from time to time?
These in my mind are the 4 questions that no one has answers to yet, and that in the last 5 episodes, we may or may not get these 4 questions answered. I can't wait!
Fire walk with