Badalamenti Fan...
We can agree to disagree. My premise was that I didn't find a discussion in the discussion you claim to be having. More like this: "I didn't like this episode." "I didn't like it either." "It must not be good." "Yeah, it's bad."
Well, I thought I explained why I didn't like the Audrey scene, and explained in some detail why I thought their approach to making The Return might be failing them. I also didn't say I disliked the episode as a whole. I said I had mixed feelings about it. I said I liked some parts of the episode, such as the Sarah Palmer scenes and Tammy's introduction into Project Blue Book.
I find the participants who instead post questions and thoughtful commentary generate more substantive discussion than the sort of knee-jerk reactions Lynch is clearly aiming to provoke.
As I said, I thought I was posting thoughtful commentary when I explained why I didn't like the scenes I didn't like. I apologise if I was not elaborate enough. It comes as a surprise to me, as I think I'm often too long-winded and detailed with my comments.
Also, if Lynch is indeed trying to provoke people into reacting, is it really a surprise when people react? I mean, I anyone who puts anything they've created out there into the world is opening themselves up to criticism. It doesn't mean Lynch himself necessarily needs to read the criticism. But reacting to things is all part of being human, surely? Isn't it all part of having a thinking mind, to watch something and then say what bits we liked and what bits we didn't like?
And just because Lynch is old and has been creating stuff for years, that doesn't mean he is out of bounds for criticism. He's only human, after all. He's just an old guy who creates stuff. Some of it is brilliant, but not all of it.
I didn't invoke "the rules" you link to-- I wasn't suggesting I had such authority.
But you did say you thought it was your "obligation" to point out that out criticisms were of dubious value to the forum. Sorry if I misinterpreted that, but it just came across like you were acting like it was your duty to try to keep us critical thinkers in line so we only talk about clues and meanings but never about whether we actually liked certain scenes or not.
As I've said before, I hope the impatient folks find what they are looking for, whether in terms of a community of frustration or a new perspective on what TV can or should be.
For me personally, it's not so much about being impatient. I've been fine with most slow scenes so far in The Return. I just didn't enjoy some of the scenes in Part 12. Of course, my appreciation for them may grow with subsequent viewings.
And the ironic thing is, if we were talking about Parts 9 to 11, I would be on your side, saying it's all great and not understanding why anyone would dislike it.
In fact, I think it's pretty antisocial or trollish to first stake out a community of frustration within a community of fans, then take issue with others who feel impatient with this...
I've read that sentence several times and I'm still not entirely sure whether you're calling me a troll or calling yourself one. I think it's the latter, but I'm not quite 100% sure.
To add a positive spin on the scenes I have criticized, I have noticed that in the days since I watched Part 12, the Audrey scene has been replaying in my mind a bit, and it's like my mind has started to unpack what it means. I think I've developed more of appreciation for its place in the story more as my mind has started to chew over it. Perhaps that is part of the beauty of the complex narratives Lynch and Frost weave into their work, that you appreciate it more later.
As for the scene with the French woman, I read one person on here say that they enjoyed it much more the 2nd time they watched the episode. It's possible I may appreciate the humour in that scene more on a re-watch.
In fact, the whole season might benefit from re-watching it. I've not re-watched all episodes yet. Some I have, but others I've only watched once. The ironic thing is, the episodes I've re-watched have been the ones I enjoyed the most on the first watching, but actually it's the more difficult ones like Part 12 that might benefit the most from re-watching.
There may be interlinking story mechanics at work here that only come to fruition later on....at least I hope so....
Yes, that's what I am thinking. I'm starting to realise that the Audrey scene may be more important than I first thought.
Badalamenti Fan, sorry I revived this thread after you said it should be left to die, but I was away from this forum for several days. I appreciate your reflections and apologies.
Badalamenti Fan, sorry I revived this thread after you said it should be left to die, but I was away from this forum for several days. I appreciate your reflections and apologies.
What. You mean you didn't like the episode?
Sorry, only kidding - I like starting trouble 😀
I think the short answer to all of this intellectual debate has been that Twin Peaks means something unique to everyone. It's obviously a series that tugs on the heart strings, as the original and FWWM meant so much to all of us.
As such, there will be polarising views on The Return. I for one have loved every minute, including the "artsy" slow scenes. But I also understand that others will not, particularly as A) it's different to most shows on TV and B) it's quite a significant diversion to the original series.
This means that some will love all episodes, and some will not. Likewise, some will be indifferent to all episodes and watch without care or emotion. They may enjoy they may not, and they'll soon forget the series.
Reading this thread and some of the other debates going on reminds me of the comedy series Red Dwarf, in which a holy war breaks out between followers of a religion who think the holy hats should be green, and those who think they should be red. Millions die in the pointless war.
I'm not trying to trivialise viewers' arguments here, not at all (I myself got caught up in them!) But I'm merely highlighting a funny fact about human behaviour, which is that we'll latch on to an argument and argue til we're blue in the face, just to ascert our position. Lose the position and we can often feel deflated and lose some sense of self.
The funny thing is - I think we can all agree on one thing: we're all thankful for and enjoying the series!
Maybe we should watch episode 13 and take a deep breath before we all ascert our opinions on it. Because one thing's for certain - some of us will love the next episode, and some of us will not!
Fire walk with