Double-speed for Video? Ep 12 needs it especially IMO  

Page 6 / 7
  RSS
(@yambag021)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Karen

There are in fact plenty of modern tv shows available on streaming/cable which do not allow you to binge-watch, as they are week-to-week. As a middle-aged adult ( if I live to be 110 ), I have no problem with seeing shows I like in this format vs. being able to binge. There have been some things in real life I have had to wait much longer than that for. 

I'm indifferent ok binging/non binging but I have a feeling this series would flow much better if you could watch 2-3 at a time.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 12:26 am
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Yambag021
Posted by: Badalamenti Fan

Ah Yambag! Glad to hear from you-- I realize I derailed this thread into what proved to be a heated discussion between you, laughingatsky, Gary and yours truly so I'm glad that you have had a chance to weigh in.

I maintain that there's something fishy about complaining about David lynch on a fan forum dedicated to his work (akin to an atheist attending a bible study in order to indict Christian dogma, no?) But I have to concede that I was wrong to hijack James Sweeney's topic and to acknowledge that my remarks proved alienating for the reasons you identified.

I've tried repeatedly to point out that The Return is different  from other tv programs for a variety of reasons and that--perhaps-- this calls into question the criteria you have used to evaluate it, or at very least invites reconsideration in other terms. I raised the issue of professional criticism because a professional critic would be responsible for establishing a context for prescriptions about what would improve a series beyond the implication that what  makes a good tv series is what has proven viable for other tv series. I suggested that the conventions of genre tv/ "prestige tv" might be the frame within which you were couching your judgments and I think-- correct me if I'm wrong-- your remarks above have confirmed this. This is your right, obviously, but dismissing my best efforts to articulate why this frame might not be appropriate /valid for The Return as 'philosophical gibberish' and 'weekly dissertations' confirms these efforts fell on deaf ears, making it clear we are still talking past each other. Let's agree to disagree-- I think you should continue to approach the show how you see fit and I will stay out of spaces on the forum where folks like you are interested in voicing frustration and dissatisfaction.

A parting thought: you will encounter people here on this forum and elsewhere in life who DID write dissertations on film, music, philosophy and cultural criticism, more broadly. It's up to you whether you dismiss what comes of years of dedicated study as pretentious or elitist, or whether instead you look to what you can learn from other people. If this sentiment strikes you as sanctimonious, know that I'm merely proposing that tv and film critics/scholars like Emily nussbaum, Michel Chion, Todd McGowan and A.o. Scott might have more insight to offer than your dismissal of such lines of inquiry suggests you feel they do. In the end, I trust you'll decide for yourself. Truce? 

 

 

 

I thought this was a twin peaks fan forum rather than a lynch forum. I think someone can be a big fan of peaks and not a huge lynch fan (and vice versa).

 

While I did bring up standard show process (or my opinion of it at least), the only show I compared it to was peaks seasons 1-2. IMO by being on showtime, lynch had the freedom to be more "lynchian" than he could be with seasons 1-2, which to many it will turn them off from the experience. The artsy fartys will crave the french girl scenes but the majority (imo aren't huge lynch fans  imo) want to stay focused on the story.

Woof. Okay, I see this is a death match! I stand corrected re: your comparison to seasons one and two. And I stand further corrected that "the majority of participants" on the forum are not 'artsy farts' like me, in your opinion. I hope you find the story you're looking for... (I'd restate my premise that The Return invites understanding as Lynch's last film, but I see you set me straight on that count above as well...) I surrender unconditionally.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 12:31 am
(@yambag021)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Karen

 This is not a show for people with A.D.D.

Just because you don't understand/relate to the art does not mean that "it ain't art."

Some of us are quite tired of the response of "How DARE David Lynch not do HIS creative work EXACTLY as *I* want him to!!" Art is not made from a universal cookie-cutter to appeal to the greatest possible number of viewers. 

The comment you're tired of seeing, I don't see "complainers" see at all.

Everyone who watches peaks and is watching know knows to expect certain things.

- quickly stuff that makes you say wtf

- things that make no sense at face value but have later meaning

- slower paced scenes/shooting

 

Consider lynch a cook. You expect some spice ("lynchian stuff") in his meal. In s1-2, he sprinkled it all over. In 3, he took the lid off and loaded up.

 

So while spices are good, some dont like too much spice in their meal.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 12:32 am
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Yambag021
Posted by: Karen

 This is not a show for people with A.D.D.

Just because you don't understand/relate to the art does not mean that "it ain't art."

Some of us are quite tired of the response of "How DARE David Lynch not do HIS creative work EXACTLY as *I* want him to!!" Art is not made from a universal cookie-cutter to appeal to the greatest possible number of viewers. 

The comment you're tired of seeing, I don't see "complainers" see at all.

Everyone who watches peaks and is watching know knows to expect certain things.

- quickly stuff that makes you say wtf

- things that make no sense at face value but have later meaning

- slower paced scenes/shooting

 

Consider lynch a cook. You expect some spice ("lynchian stuff") in his meal. In s1-2, he sprinkled it all over. In 3, he took the lid off and loaded up.

 

So while spices are good, some dont like too much spice in their meal.

Makes sense! You are fully entitled to your taste preferences  re: Lynch's eccentricities.  I never intended to make a stink, nor to tell you what you should prefer. My quibble was only about the presumptions I inferred from your earlier remarks. Of course, one person's fascination is another's tedium, etc. 

Now, to find more art farts like me....

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 12:37 am
(@karen_paynter)
Deputy

"- quickly stuff that makes you say wtf

- things that make no sense at face value but have later meaning

- slower paced scenes/shooting"

Funny, that's what you're complaining about.

The ABC show was watered down and in every non-humor moment hit the audience over the head to "make sure they get it" because ABC wanted to appeal to the mainstream tv audience of the time ( even then there were people complaining about like you do now ). As you've mentioned, Showtime is not a mainstream tv network, and it does not come free ( though suffering commercials is another type of payment ).

David lynch is not a cook in a burger restaurant trying to please everyone to sell the product. He's an artist and would rather make less money than make art that doesn't feel right to his vision ( in fact he was ready to completely walk away when initially Showtime didn't want to do more than 9 episodes ). As said before, you're free not to like the art, but that does not mean it isn't art.

Fire Walk With Me

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 12:44 am
(@rilly_rill)
Dweller

man, Idk what all the fuss is about, Episode 12 was great!

We all live in Twin Peaks

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 1:03 am
Caleb Tanner, Myn0k, Badalamenti Fan and 3 people liked
(@yambag021)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Karen

"- quickly stuff that makes you say wtf

- things that make no sense at face value but have later meaning

- slower paced scenes/shooting"

Funny, that's what you're complaining about.

The ABC show was watered down and in every non-humor moment hit the audience over the head to "make sure they get it" because ABC wanted to appeal to the mainstream tv audience of the time ( even then there were people complaining about like you do now ). As you've mentioned, Showtime is not a mainstream tv network, and it does not come free ( though suffering commercials is another type of payment ).

David lynch is not a cook in a burger restaurant trying to please everyone to sell the product. He's an artist and would rather make less money than make art that doesn't feel right to his vision ( in fact he was ready to completely walk away when initially Showtime didn't want to do more than 9 episodes ). As said before, you're free not to like the art, but that does not mean it isn't art.

In regards to the ABC seasons, lynch got to do his thing (minus the nudity and language obviously). The only thing and pushed on him was to reveal the killer because people were losing interest.

The cook hing was an alalogy, which I'm guessing you didn't get.

The art thing, thisll rattle feathers, but im tired of hearing it. It's a tv show and a tv show rebooting a show that ended (kind of) 25 years ago. Do I think it was a money grab sellout move by lynch and co? No. But I also don't think he did this from the goodness of his heart to "share his art". Let's not ignore the fact lynch almost walked out on season three over a salary dispute. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 10:35 am
(@fumiko)
Roadhouse Regular

Ah, t he never-ending struggle. 

 

"I didn't care for episode 12."

"How dare you!  You must not be smart enough, like me, to appreciate art."

Wash, rinse, repeat. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 12:29 pm
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: kdawg68

Ah, t he never-ending struggle. 

 

"I didn't care for episode 12."

"How dare you!  You must not be smart enough, like me, to appreciate art."

Wash, rinse, repeat. 

Yeah, this thread has given me a lot to think about.

I failed to appreciate how important this forum is for people who want to find a community of viewers looking to share their misgivings about The Return.

I felt impatient with this b/c, frankly, the kind of discussion I most value is something else entirely... I crave decidedly more than idle speculation about what everything means or how it might all be unified, and I find quickfire opinions about what "worked" about a given episode decidedly offputting-- particularly if they seem to presume to know better than Lynch or Frost. This is what I call "armchair quarterbacking," but everyone's entitled to see things this way (or simply to not like the show).  No argument here.

I assumed, wrongly, that a baseline assumption for participants in this forum was a general agreement that a) The Return is worth watching; and b) it's worth approaching as the product of Lynch's and Frost's intentions and as such, with a measure of respect for the series as they have presented it-- that the point of departure for discussion might be what the text presents the viewer , not whether or not the viewer deems a given episode a "success" artistically or otherwise.

That said, I see I was off the mark here and drifted into an unreasonable expectation (and wrongheaded effort to enforce) that others agree with me.

I think it's a tad heavyhanded, Kdawg, to portray my reaction to others' reactions as so pretentious or narcissistic ... but I can also see why you'd see it that way.  

I concede its pretentious to ask others to "elevate" their discussion, and I apologize for doing so.

There's just so much idle opinion/snap judgment cast about the internet. I can hardly stand it.  I sought a refuge from that here and have found it intermittently...

But I do  understand that the refuge I sought need not be what others value about being here.

Thanks, all, for pointing out the hypocrisy on my part.  It's given me lots to think about.

Maybe we should let this thread die now?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 1:40 pm
(@yambag021)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: kdawg68

Ah, t he never-ending struggle. 

 

"I didn't care for episode 12."

"How dare you!  You must not be smart enough, like me, to appreciate art."

Wash, rinse, repeat. 

You just summed up about 70% of this forum.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 7:39 pm
(@octaviolemos)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Yambag021
Posted by: kdawg68

Ah, t he never-ending struggle. 

 

"I didn't care for episode 12."

"How dare you!  You must not be smart enough, like me, to appreciate art."

Wash, rinse, repeat. 

You just summed up about 70% of this forum.

Are you (your posts) among the 30%?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 7:58 pm
(@mark_chamberlain_stevens)
Roadhouse Regular

There may be interlinking story mechanics at work here that only come to fruition later on....at least I hope so....

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/08/2017 12:20 am
(@yambag021)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: OctavioLemos
Posted by: Yambag021
Posted by: kdawg68

Ah, t he never-ending struggle. 

 

"I didn't care for episode 12."

"How dare you!  You must not be smart enough, like me, to appreciate art."

Wash, rinse, repeat. 

You just summed up about 70% of this forum.

Are you (your posts) among the 30%?

Some yes. 

The rhetoric of "any complaint is unjust, they just don't understand/appreciate art" is tired. The show isn't perfect. It's normal for their to be criticism.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/08/2017 12:23 am
(@octaviolemos)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Yambag021
Posted by: OctavioLemos
Posted by: Yambag021
Posted by: kdawg68

Ah, t he never-ending struggle. 

 

"I didn't care for episode 12."

"How dare you!  You must not be smart enough, like me, to appreciate art."

Wash, rinse, repeat. 

You just summed up about 70% of this forum.

Are you (your posts) among the 30%?

Some yes. 

The rhetoric of "any complaint is unjust, they just don't understand/appreciate art" is tired. The show isn't perfect. It's normal for their to be criticism.

Personnaly I don't object by any means to one's right to criticism. I just thought your 70/30 statistics was way out of balance and somehow unfair to most forum posters.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/08/2017 9:29 am
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: OctavioLemos
Posted by: Yambag021
Posted by: OctavioLemos
Posted by: Yambag021
Posted by: kdawg68

Ah, t he never-ending struggle. 

 

"I didn't care for episode 12."

"How dare you!  You must not be smart enough, like me, to appreciate art."

Wash, rinse, repeat. 

You just summed up about 70% of this forum.

Are you (your posts) among the 30%?

Some yes. 

The rhetoric of "any complaint is unjust, they just don't understand/appreciate art" is tired. The show isn't perfect. It's normal for their to be criticism.

Personnaly I don't object by any means to one's right to criticism. I just thought your 70/30 statistics was way out of balance and somehow unfair to most forum posters.

Indeed. Without wishing to reenergize the feud , much of the criticism on either side , including my own, has not been very informative-- many reaction threads have tended toward echo chambers. The folks most disillusioned with the show dismiss the enthusiastic responses and find the enthusiasm/withholding of final judgment of folks like me to be not very insightful-- indeed, alienating, as the 70-30 figure cited above would suggest. I found this frustrating, but I was wrong to take it personally. It s not worth trying to change minds, I've realized. The show is polarizing and I see now I needn't suggest/insist anybody necessarily approach it differently . It's people's right, but I'm giving up on wading through resentments in search of open minds-- this was a foolhardy approach on my part to begin with.  So I'm out... and not likely to be missed, a reasonable reaction given some of my intemperate moments. All good-- good luck and happy trails, friends/rivals/friendly rivals... I encourage you to let this thread die and move on to more fulfilling ones.

All of this is to say, "I am the muffin, Donna. "

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/08/2017 9:57 am
Page 6 / 7
Share: