laughingatsky, not liking ep. 8 is understandable, since it has to be the most outrageously bizarre episode of any TV show in history. Personally, I think it's one of David's great achievements, up there with the likes of "Blue Velvet."
But not liking ep. 3 is surprising to me. What more exactly didn't you like?
rbowser
I, like many I suspect, was looking forward to the old Twin Peaks flavor as opposed to the FWWM flavor. But Showtime came out and said it's pure heroin David Lynch which of course meant the latter. So I prepared myself by erasing all expectations of the old and went in with an open mind. This really helped me enjoy the show. Instead of being disappointed, I was elated that while still more like FWWM, it was beyond that in its reach. It blew away my expectations of it being classic Lynch. It's something much more and is unlike anything I've ever seen. Even amazing shows like Fargo don't seem to be quite as enthralling now post TP 2017. So for those still on the fence I would ask: Can you let go of what you want the show to be and just enjoy it for what it is?
It's worth noting that this is the first (in a fair while) show that has prompted me to join a tv related forum and write. The new GoT episode came out on the same day, and I watched TP first, without any deliberation. Ed Sheeran?!?!?!?!?! Can you imagine him on/in Twin Peaks?!! I think NOT.
Eh the Sheeran cameo was as lame as the cera cameo in tp.
I'm ready to quit in 8 hours
No way, I need the Blu-Ray to rewatch it with 4k quality, I won't quit until then.
And Frost's book.
After that, I guess I will turn to drugs and ruin my life completely as it will be meaningless 😀
Which will invite Bob into your life.
But not liking ep. 3 is surprising to me. What more exactly didn't you like?
No, I did like Part 3 on the whole. It was just during the scene with the blind woman, with the crazy sounds and the glitching effect. I remember being sat there thinking "What the hell am I watching?" I liked a lot of the rest of it, though. I loved the purple sea and I found the casino scenes to be funny.
But not liking ep. 3 is surprising to me. What more exactly didn't you like?
No, I did like Part 3 on the whole. It was just during the scene with the blind woman, with the crazy sounds and the glitching effect. I remember being sat there thinking "What the hell am I watching?" I liked a lot of the rest of it, though. I loved the purple sea and I found the casino scenes to be funny.
That section, to me, conveyed the sense of Cooper returning to a regular timeframe, and the room being a kind of threshold, where time can run either way once stabilized. I think you were supposed to feel frustrated by it.
The big bell like device on the roof - as we discovered in episode 8 - has a very significant part, too. Perhaps we'll see a follow up on that later. For sure, the eyeless lady felt it was important enough to activate it.
But not liking ep. 3 is surprising to me. What more exactly didn't you like?
No, I did like Part 3 on the whole. It was just during the scene with the blind woman, with the crazy sounds and the glitching effect. I remember being sat there thinking "What the hell am I watching?" I liked a lot of the rest of it, though. I loved the purple sea and I found the casino scenes to be funny.
That section, to me, conveyed the sense of Cooper returning to a regular timeframe, and the room being a kind of threshold, where time can run either way once stabilized. I think you were supposed to feel frustrated by it.
The big bell like device on the roof - as we discovered in episode 8 - has a very significant part, too. Perhaps we'll see a follow up on that later. For sure, the eyeless lady felt it was important enough to activate it.
She warned Coop away from what we discover is a portal, that it would be bad if he went through it then. She throws that switch, which alters the portal to a different place ( we discover it's where Dougie is, that Coop switches places with him, allowing him back into our world ). and "American Girl" urges him to hurry out of there before it's too late.
Aye, you're right. I'd totally forgotten that. Duh.
But not liking ep. 3 is surprising to me. What more exactly didn't you like?
No, I did like Part 3 on the whole. It was just during the scene with the blind woman, with the crazy sounds and the glitching effect. I remember being sat there thinking "What the hell am I watching?" I liked a lot of the rest of it, though. I loved the purple sea and I found the casino scenes to be funny.
The scene at the start of part 3 still remains a favourite. The sound as the lady with her eyes sewn shut reaches out to touch and the way she does that was so touching. I did wonder what the heck I was watching but was mesmerised.
The scene at the start of part 3 still remains a favourite. The sound as the lady with her eyes sewn shut reaches out to touch and the way she does that was so touching. I did wonder what the heck I was watching but was mesmerised.
The sounds in that and so many scenes - such an integral part of Twin Peaks. I love it that David Lynch is the sound designer, which I believe means he's creating the layers of strange clicks and ambient sounds that are barely noticeable. As he says, the way to watch TP is sitting close to the screen and with headphones so his almost constant work with the sound can be heard.
I'm glad I asked about ep.3, it's a great discussion about the blind Japanese woman, Naido and David's sound. Thanks for the reply, laughingatsky, and everyone else gathered here in these particularly dark corners of The Return.
rbowser
Yes, I understand that the uncomfortable moments are there for a reason and we're supposed to feel like that. I'm just being honest about my reaction when I first watched it. Even being familiar with Lynch's previous work, I was feeling "what the hell?"
But I'm sure the whole thing is going to go down in history as work of artistic genius.
I think we can begin to criticise the show quite harshly now. I reserved judgement up until now because who knew what was round the corner? But we are now over half way. The shape of the show has pretty much presented itself to us. It is now obvious that there is far too much to be resolved in the remaining episodes. New characters / plot lines are still getting added.
There is a point where open, diffuse storytelling actually becomes poor planning and bad structure! I can't ignore this or make excuses for it any more! This is actually very badly structured! This is totally NOT the case in Mulholland Drive or Inland Empire, but Twin Peaks: The Return has really lost it!
I think we can begin to criticise the show quite harshly now. I reserved judgement up until now because who knew what was round the corner? But we are now over half way. The shape of the show has pretty much presented itself to us. It is now obvious that there is far too much to be resolved in the remaining episodes. New characters / plot lines are still getting added.
There is a point where open, diffuse storytelling actually becomes poor planning and bad structure! I can't ignore this or make excuses for it any more! This is actually very badly structured! This is totally NOT the case in Mulholland Drive or Inland Empire, but Twin Peaks: The Return has really lost it!
I've written short stories, some short film and poetry, so have a pretty reasonable knowledge of the structures of narrative etc, but two things pop out for me, i) I'm far too emotionally involved to be objective about the structure, story arcs, sub plots, etc and ii) I'm still reluctant to let myself over analyse or judge it from that point of view until I've seen the whole piece (18 hour film). So for now, I'm going to let myself be taken away into the world created.
I do get a sense that the next two parts, especially part 12 - Let's Rock will be pivotal and set the scene for the remaining six where I still sense there'll be some sort of resolution to the protagonist's (Coop) dramatic question, that imho, being what happened to Cooper after Bob took him as his next host?
I'm still delighted and glad to have been alive to see this return after being deeply moved (and disturbed) by the first two seasons, albeit that imho, the second kinda lost its way, until the last episode which was spectacular and out there.
There's fire where we're going... 🙂
Wow, you can get all that from being just past halfway? I wish my crystal ball was that good.
"The shape of the show has pretty much presented itself to us. It is now obvious that there is far too much to be resolved in the remaining episodes."
Based on what? Other shows? Be honest, none of us here have the slightest idea what's going to happen next. Episode 8 should tell you that, if nothing else. There's no way you can base any outcome on previous shows; even on previous Lynch outings or the old Twin Peaks. This is a whole nother thing.
I'm not even sure traditional story telling techniques can apply beyond certain limits here. In any case, there are 8 more episodes in store, which IMO gives plenty of time to get everything said and done.
I'll happily admit I was wrong - if I'm proven wrong - but I ain't rushing into making any predictions.
And we're like that young guy in NY looking at a glassbox for hours waiting for Cooper to materialize... We're still waiting...
Haaha! Yes! Perfect analogy
And a very intentional one! We ARE Sam sitting watching the box. DL is very aware of our presence (I mused on this in a thread about the fourth wall in the part 8 forum). We are part of the story. Including our reactions- our exasperation, our screaming at the screen for Dougie to snap the frak out of it, all of it. He is having a conversation with us, and sometimes, he is taking the piss.
I think we can begin to criticise the show quite harshly now. I reserved judgement up until now because who knew what was round the corner? But we are now over half way. The shape of the show has pretty much presented itself to us. It is now obvious that there is far too much to be resolved in the remaining episodes. New characters / plot lines are still getting added.
There is a point where open, diffuse storytelling actually becomes poor planning and bad structure! I can't ignore this or make excuses for it any more! This is actually very badly structured! This is totally NOT the case in Mulholland Drive or Inland Empire, but Twin Peaks: The Return has really lost it!
I disagree. From what I can gather thus far, the way they're telling this story is in direct opposition to how the story of the first two seasons unfolded. I find it a breath of fresh air. The central mystery and plot line was revealed in the first minute of the original pilot. Other mysteries and subplots branched out off of it. As season 2 dragged on, some of the subplots were compelling while others were, to be nice, lacking. This was a problem with planning and too many hands in the cookie jar (and intervention by executives). In the Return, the story began with a myriad of seemingly unconnected subplots, and while some may be discrete or isolated, in order to tie-up the lives of some of the more peripheral characters, most of the subplots appear to be connected to the main mystery. They're using the one episode per week format to great effect. We basically forget about a set of characters after their introduction (e.g., Mitchum bros.), and then they resurface and their connection to the story is revealed (aha!). It's all starting to come together beautifully, in my opinion. And, some of the discrete subplots add depth to the Twin Peaks world with finesse (e.g., Personally, I don't care all that much about characters like Nadine, but found it touching that she turned her obsession into a successful business. If that is all I learn about Nadine 25 years later, I'm fine with filling in the blanks.) Point being: Frost and Lynch wrote the story prior to Lynch filming it. The way the story is being told seems to be analogous to the central character's condition. We, as viewers, are essentially discovering the story bit-by-bit and piece-by-connected-piece just as Cooper is doing with his own identity. The music emphasizes this as well, as it, and not just sound, has gradually increased as an atmospheric and emotional device as the series has progressed.
There are so many layers, and such attention paid to detail, along with a myriad of questions being raised, that I find myself watching episodes several times. I can't think of another television show that caused me to do that (not that I watch all that much television).
As far as where the imaginary line is drawn for when one can begin to "harshly" criticize this show, I'll leave that to each fan. Personally, I'm waiting until I've watched all 18 episodes due to how the story is being told.
Fire walk with