A former GF told me that she enjoyed our time together because, unlike other men, I really enjoyed delayed gratification. Now, bending bedsprings aside, this holds true for most other stuff I find enjoyable. Why rush headlong into something, knowing that when you get there, it's over? With something like Twin Peaks - or any other work of fiction worth taking the time with - getting there is at least half the fun.
Yes, I want a completely satisfying resolution, (or at least, one that's not just cobbled together at the last minute to tie up all the loose ends so the characters can share a beer and a joke at the end, or because they couldn't think of anything better) but more than just that, I want the journey to tell me stuff I didn't know, or hadn't seen before, to make me think of things in a different way, to give me some laughs, some tension, all the stuff that a good story is supposed to have.
So far, Twin Peaks has delivered on all fronts, for me anyhow. I enjoy the pace of each section and the fact that it's around one hour long, which is time enough to soak up all that's happening, with the added benefit it's easier to dive back into, rather than having to absorb 2 or more hours at this information density. Be honest, most modern entertainment has little in terms of real stuff happening; tv and movies really have dumbed down over the years. Modern audiences want instant gratification, shiny stuff, nekkid wimmin, explody things and all that malarkey. Those who try to copy the original ideas of TP, or at least, latch on to the vibe (yes, "Lost", I am talking about you) fail because their ideas are thin gruel, papered over with some surface gloss that - for a while - covers the paucity of imagination. It's a self evident truth that the amount of stuff crammed into every episode of Peaks is huge, by any standards; if it wasn't, we wouldn't be able to discuss what we just saw for over a week afterwards. It'd be "Yeah, the guy walked out of the shower and the girl got her norks out" and that'd be about it.
So, if you accept that once it's over, it's over, why hurry to get there? Sit back, enjoy the ride and see what comes along next.
A former GF told me that she enjoyed our time together because, unlike other men, I really enjoyed delayed gratification. Now, bending bedsprings aside, this holds true for most other stuff I find enjoyable. Why rush headlong into something, knowing that when you get there, it's over? With something like Twin Peaks - or any other work of fiction worth taking the time with - getting there is at least half the fun.
Yes, I want a completely satisfying resolution, (or at least, one that's not just cobbled together at the last minute to tie up all the loose ends so the characters can share a beer and a joke at the end, or because they couldn't think of anything better) but more than just that, I want the journey to tell me stuff I didn't know, or hadn't seen before, to make me think of things in a different way, to give me some laughs, some tension, all the stuff that a good story is supposed to have.
So far, Twin Peaks has delivered on all fronts, for me anyhow. I enjoy the pace of each section and the fact that it's around one hour long, which is time enough to soak up all that's happening, with the added benefit it's easier to dive back into, rather than having to absorb 2 or more hours at this information density. Be honest, most modern entertainment has little in terms of real stuff happening; tv and movies really have dumbed down over the years. Modern audiences want instant gratification, shiny stuff, nekkid wimmin, explody things and all that malarkey. Those who try to copy the original ideas of TP, or at least, latch on to the vibe (yes, "Lost", I am talking about you) fail because their ideas are thin gruel, papered over with some surface gloss that - for a while - covers the paucity of imagination. It's a self evident truth that the amount of stuff crammed into every episode of Peaks is huge, by any standards; if it wasn't, we wouldn't be able to discuss what we just saw for over a week afterwards. It'd be "Yeah, the guy walked out of the shower and the girl got her norks out" and that'd be about it.
So, if you accept that once it's over, it's over, why hurry to get there? Sit back, enjoy the ride and see what comes along next.
Capitalism prefers efficiency and profits above all else. Take the old Looney Toons or Tom and Jerry cartoons for example. They were beautifully illustrated and animated. Fast forward to Hanna Barbara who found out cheap animation could be sold more profitably. All cartoons eventually followed this path for a long time with the exception of Disney films. TV and movies ARE really dumbed down because it's more profitable as a very small portion of our society can get films or TV that Kubrick, Lynch, etc make. Just look at how profitable and dumb the movies that Michael Bay makes to understand this pattern. The fact that Showtime greenlit this series in this day and age is remarkable. They basically said, screw it, we wont make much on this if any at all but it will be amazing to have in our catalog for years to come. I actually emailed Showtime thanking them for having the guts to put this on and informed them I will be a forever subscriber as my way of saying thanks. I would suggest everyone loving the show, write them a similar email!
And we're like that young guy in NY looking at a glassbox for hours waiting for Cooper to materialize... We're still waiting...
Yeah, just as everyone wanted to know who killed Laura Palmer...until they actually did know, after which the show lost its direction.
Sometimes, people want stuff until they actually get it. It's like opening your Christmas presents early, or searching for spoilers. You want it, you REALLY want it, but once you get it, you realise that's it's over.
I mean, instead of an 18 part series, they could have just made a FWWM 2 where Good Dale escapes the lodge, finds Evil Dale, has a super hero style battle with him, wins, and then we all get on with our lives.
Or we could have had 18 episodes of Good Dale walking round with a Dictaphone looking for clues again. Unlikely if he's just spent 25 years in the lodge. Or perhaps he escaped the lodge almost immediately after the last episode of Season 2, and we catch up with him in the FBI office or something. That's a possible way it could have gone, but to be honest it probably would have been a bit dull.
I'm not exactly sure how to judge the episodes individually. They're vaguely "shaped" as individual episodes but - other than that - when I'm watching a two hours movie I don't have an opinion about individual 6 minutes fragments: every bits leads you to the next place so I tend to evaluate it as a whole. It's only then - after evaluating it as a whole - that I can go back to individual scenes and single moments and analyze what works and what doesn't and what I like/dislike in the context of the movie (again, as a whole).
Same thing is happening here: how can I say if I enjoyed this episode more or less than episode 8 or 5 or whatever?
I know that I like what I'm seeing, that I don't really have trouble following it and that I don't feel it's "slow paced". Maybe this is because the flow I'm going with is "feelings, emotions & perceptions" rather than "story & facts". And because I like to get lost in things: I'm not anxious for the narrative to lead me in a specific direction and I'm not really all that interested in clear answers
In the end, I think the whole point is about managing expectations and being able to (actively) enjoy something as opposed to (passively) expecting/demanding it to be enjoyable.
This concurs with my view on The Return.
My expectations prior were that, like train car scene, Maddy's murder, the last episode in the Black Lodge with Laura and that scream, I would be disturbed, challenged, left hanging, vulnerable, lots of held tension. Lynch's ability as a director to take us places deep in our psyche, those dark corners in our minds, even the notion of a loved teddy bear from childhood dashed, turned into a robot, with some teeth, are all deeply unsettling, yet done so well, interleaved with dreamy, curved edge music, sometimes music with sharp edges all elicit strong emotion. The human condition is under deep scrutiny in all its forms through the wonder of this piece of art. This episode did this for me in spades.
Rebekah del Rio's piece at the end took me back to Julee Cruise's The World Spins that played in amongst Maddy being murdered and the old boy coming over to Coop and saying, 'I'm so sorry.' As she was in Mulholland Drive, she took me to a place, and in that it was a pivotal moment. No Stars. When the glow fades what's left? Dark matter.
I'm happy to let them take us wherever they darn well like...
I love that everyone is being challenged and able to voice their feelings so openly on here and all I've read is, even when there's a sense of disappointment in some, their opinion is respected, honoured even with the responses. I can only imagine, having been part of one early on, what some of the FB driven sites dedicated to the Return are saying. Reactive behaviour, name calling, there's no right and wrong here, no black and white, it's all blurred, like life.
Bring it!
There's fire where we're going...
🙂
A former GF told me that she enjoyed our time together because, unlike other men, I really enjoyed delayed gratification. Now, bending bedsprings aside, this holds true for most other stuff I find enjoyable. Why rush headlong into something, knowing that when you get there, it's over? With something like Twin Peaks - or any other work of fiction worth taking the time with - getting there is at least half the fun.
Yes, I want a completely satisfying resolution, (or at least, one that's not just cobbled together at the last minute to tie up all the loose ends so the characters can share a beer and a joke at the end, or because they couldn't think of anything better) but more than just that, I want the journey to tell me stuff I didn't know, or hadn't seen before, to make me think of things in a different way, to give me some laughs, some tension, all the stuff that a good story is supposed to have.
So far, Twin Peaks has delivered on all fronts, for me anyhow. I enjoy the pace of each section and the fact that it's around one hour long, which is time enough to soak up all that's happening, with the added benefit it's easier to dive back into, rather than having to absorb 2 or more hours at this information density. Be honest, most modern entertainment has little in terms of real stuff happening; tv and movies really have dumbed down over the years. Modern audiences want instant gratification, shiny stuff, nekkid wimmin, explody things and all that malarkey. Those who try to copy the original ideas of TP, or at least, latch on to the vibe (yes, "Lost", I am talking about you) fail because their ideas are thin gruel, papered over with some surface gloss that - for a while - covers the paucity of imagination. It's a self evident truth that the amount of stuff crammed into every episode of Peaks is huge, by any standards; if it wasn't, we wouldn't be able to discuss what we just saw for over a week afterwards. It'd be "Yeah, the guy walked out of the shower and the girl got her norks out" and that'd be about it.
So, if you accept that once it's over, it's over, why hurry to get there? Sit back, enjoy the ride and see what comes along next.
Capitalism prefers efficiency and profits above all else. Take the old Looney Toons or Tom and Jerry cartoons for example. They were beautifully illustrated and animated. Fast forward to Hanna Barbara who found out cheap animation could be sold more profitably. All cartoons eventually followed this path for a long time with the exception of Disney films. TV and movies ARE really dumbed down because it's more profitable as a very small portion of our society can get films or TV that Kubrick, Lynch, etc make. Just look at how profitable and dumb the movies that Michael Bay makes to understand this pattern. The fact that Showtime greenlit this series in this day and age is remarkable. They basically said, screw it, we wont make much on this if any at all but it will be amazing to have in our catalog for years to come. I actually emailed Showtime thanking them for having the guts to put this on and informed them I will be a forever subscriber as my way of saying thanks. I would suggest everyone loving the show, write them a similar email!
I'm not surprised by them greenlighting this one bit. We live in a world where there's a reboot of a classic (or borderline watchable) stuff weekly. Showtime got to reboot a series with a well known director and a star studded cast. It's a no brainer that they put this on.
I'm not exactly sure how to judge the episodes individually. They're vaguely "shaped" as individual episodes but - other than that - when I'm watching a two hours movie I don't have an opinion about individual 6 minutes fragments: every bits leads you to the next place so I tend to evaluate it as a whole. It's only then - after evaluating it as a whole - that I can go back to individual scenes and single moments and analyze what works and what doesn't and what I like/dislike in the context of the movie (again, as a whole).
Same thing is happening here: how can I say if I enjoyed this episode more or less than episode 8 or 5 or whatever?
I know that I like what I'm seeing, that I don't really have trouble following it and that I don't feel it's "slow paced". Maybe this is because the flow I'm going with is "feelings, emotions & perceptions" rather than "story & facts". And because I like to get lost in things: I'm not anxious for the narrative to lead me in a specific direction and I'm not really all that interested in clear answers
In the end, I think the whole point is about managing expectations and being able to (actively) enjoy something as opposed to (passively) expecting/demanding it to be enjoyable.
This concurs with my view on The Return.
My expectations prior were that, like train car scene, Maddy's murder, the last episode in the Black Lodge with Laura and that scream, I would be disturbed, challenged, left hanging, vulnerable, lots of held tension. Lynch's ability as a director to take us places deep in our psyche, those dark corners in our minds, even the notion of a loved teddy bear from childhood dashed, turned into a robot, with some teeth, are all deeply unsettling, yet done so well, interleaved with dreamy, curved edge music, sometimes music with sharp edges all elicit strong emotion. The human condition is under deep scrutiny in all its forms through the wonder of this piece of art. This episode did this for me in spades.
Rebekah del Rio's piece at the end took me back to Julee Cruise's The World Spins that played in amongst Maddy being murdered and the old boy coming over to Coop and saying, 'I'm so sorry.' As she was in Mulholland Drive, she took me to a place, and in that it was a pivotal moment. No Stars. When the glow fades what's left? Dark matter.
I'm happy to let them take us wherever they darn well like...
I love that everyone is being challenged and able to voice their feelings so openly on here and all I've read is, even when there's a sense of disappointment in some, their opinion is respected, honoured even with the responses. I can only imagine, having been part of one early on, what some of the FB driven sites dedicated to the Return are saying. Reactive behaviour, name calling, there's no right and wrong here, no black and white, it's all blurred, like life.
Bring it!
There's fire where we're going...
🙂
This season imo hasn't been nearly as disturbing as the original. Honestly, the fact it's on showtime makes it easier to do bc there's no limit on gore, language, or nudity.
And I k ow I'm in the minority, but I'm a little tired of missing stuff bc I haven't seen Lynch's whole collection of films. Just keep things twin peaks.
I hope this is the last time I see one of these threads on the forum. We're more than half done with the season. If you're not enjoying yourself, then go. Just go. Nobody's going to miss you. There's plenty of us here who want to enjoy the mystery and the way it's presented to us. This story doesn't belong to you; it belongs to Lynch and Frost. You can't just call them up and say, "Show me Audrey and Cooper together." This show makes you look at things and feel emotions that are strange, or uncomfortable, or frustrating. It's the way it's been going thus far, so don't expect a complete overhaul in the episodic storytelling now.
I'm frustrated as hell with this show (and Part Ten probably was my least favorite thus far), but I'd never consider stopping watching it; I simply need far too much to find out how it ends. I'll admit that the Dougie storyline is dragging too much for me, and I too am beginning to fear that we won't have Proper Dale Cooper back until the end of the series, but the rest of the storyline is so meticulously done, the threads of the story so well crafted and interwoven, that the show remains an utter marvel to me, and I'm already deeply upset at the thought of what the hell I'm going to do with my life when I don't have new Twin Peaks to look forward to each week.
One other thought: although I disagree with him, I'd never tell the OP to get out of here. I feel bad he's not getting out of the series what I and many others are getting out of it, but he's got a different opinion, which is just as valid as any other expressed here. And consider this: the original post, however incendiary, has led to six pages of quite a nice discussion. If he'd just taken his bat and ball and gone home, we'd never have had that.
I hope this is the last time I see one of these threads on the forum. We're more than half done with the season. If you're not enjoying yourself, then go. Just go. Nobody's going to miss you. There's plenty of us here who want to enjoy the mystery and the way it's presented to us. This story doesn't belong to you; it belongs to Lynch and Frost. You can't just call them up and say, "Show me Audrey and Cooper together." This show makes you look at things and feel emotions that are strange, or uncomfortable, or frustrating. It's the way it's been going thus far, so don't expect a complete overhaul in the episodic storytelling now.
Ayayayy....
Leave these people be.... Forums are for people to praise and complain. No one here is a hater, we all had to sign up to post, and the site is solely about Twin Peaks. It's not IMDB where we can praise our favorite show and attack other competing shows. We are all fans here : but just satisfied fans and disappointed fans. They're not attacking, they're voicing their discontent at the changes made to their favorite show.
? Come on.
I mean, take that Eric From Sweden.
You gotta pity the guy, complaining every chance he gets, yet watching every episode, loving while hating, and he can't stay away from discussions either.
Let's all reach out to sad people like Eric, and show them that we're the better men.
We love you, Eric. ❤️
?
I mean, take that Eric From Sweden.
You gotta pity the guy, complaining every chance he gets, yet watching every episode, loving while hating, and he can't stay away from discussions either.
Let's all reach out to sad people like Eric, and show them that we're the better men.
We love you, Eric. ❤️
?
Not "we." I do not love him.
I have silently enjoyed this forum from the beginning. However, this thread has upset me to the point I can no longer stay quite.
This show has always been about mystery and who did what and when. We get to be the detectives and figure out that mystery. Every week we are given new clues and like real life those clues may sometimes be straight forward, and other times may make absolutely no sense. Those clues may come quickly or they may take time, but that is what it's about putting everything together. We have had a autobiography, diary, a dossier, and recently a website that all accompany this series. Again more pieces of evidence for us to rummage through to hopefully get a little closer to what is happening. This show, unlike any other show in history, is the most interactive for the fans. That alone is what keeps me coming back week after week.
However, if you're looking for David Lynch to spoon feed this show to you, then pull the rip cord now. I promise you that he will not do it. And for those that believe that Lynch has given to much information or has made the clues to easy then let me remind you. When David Lynch hands you a turtle and says, "Here's a turtle." You will find upon closer examination that your are actually holding a tortoise. I promise you have not figured it out, nor can you even imagine where it is going. But for the true TP fans, like myself, I am going to sit back and enjoy the journey through this wonderful world of Twin Peaks.
Agreed- I think there are critical moments when they are messing with us very intentionally!
I have silently enjoyed this forum from the beginning. However, this thread has upset me to the point I can no longer stay quite.
This show has always been about mystery and who did what and when. We get to be the detectives and figure out that mystery. Every week we are given new clues and like real life those clues may sometimes be straight forward, and other times may make absolutely no sense. Those clues may come quickly or they may take time, but that is what it's about putting everything together. We have had a autobiography, diary, a dossier, and recently a website that all accompany this series. Again more pieces of evidence for us to rummage through to hopefully get a little closer to what is happening. This show, unlike any other show in history, is the most interactive for the fans. That alone is what keeps me coming back week after week.
However, if you're looking for David Lynch to spoon feed this show to you, then pull the rip cord now. I promise you that he will not do it. And for those that believe that Lynch has given to much information or has made the clues to easy then let me remind you. When David Lynch hands you a turtle and says, "Here's a turtle." You will find upon closer examination that your are actually holding a tortoise. I promise you have not figured it out, nor can you even imagine where it is going. But for the true TP fans, like myself, I am going to sit back and enjoy the journey through this wonderful world of Twin Peaks.
Glad to hear your views, Flynn. I guess "upset" is part of the game and fair since it has brought you into the discussion (though silently enjoying is also good). Thanks for contributing.
Stephen Batchelor makes much of the distinction between problems - usually open to rational solutions - and mysteries - those aspects of our existential situation that are ultimately unknowable. Lynch's (like Tarkovsky, Bergman) work explores the distinction by cuing viewers to appreciate the many ways in which problems and mysteries might overlap.
And we're like that young guy in NY looking at a glassbox for hours waiting for Cooper to materialize... We're still waiting...
Haaha! Yes! Perfect analogy
Fire walk with