Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
Question, looking for clarification and/or opinions.....
Are we to understand that while Tammy is in TP writing her final analysis, she is forgetting the original events (as we know them)? But upon leaving TP and heading back to the east coast, she is recovering her memory and the fog is lifting? Or is she still forgetting and Gordon will indeed be the only one to remember the "unofficial version" as stated by Jeffries the tea kettle?
It seems like tammy is shocked by the revelation that laura isn't dead and would have a had her own files and the other files on the case to jog her memory at the very least about the core facets of the case. so nothing jumped out at me in the dossier of being out of whack to what we saw and seemed to line up with the "unofficial version".
I have to look again, it seemed like her most of her foggy-ness or questioning what happened came down to scenes like the one Gordon had at the portal when what's his names head imploded in the back seat, or the station. (or once she realized the newspaper archives said laura went missing). that was when she started to doubt herself, to me at least.
One would assume the tammy would remember the same version that cole did in regards to what jeffries told cooper, since she is working along side of him.
So i took it as tammy was writing based on what we saw her see. (some of the side stories of stuff like Donna, even Audrey, Annie - hard to say when those things were compiled - we have nothing to base it off of, did she go back AFTER the sheriff station showdown? or are these old files?).
Damn, now i'm trying to remember if she said when most of this research was done.
I thought you already decided it was narcissistic to expect the creators of the Twin Peaks world to have any responsibility to the audience for a factual version (or more correctly stated, inaccurate) event in that world?
NOW you can see why I am so torn apart by this way this season unfolded and was presented to us with more questions than answers. I will hand it to them though, the more we attempt to answer the questions, the more questions we reveal to ourselves, the more theories we develop, the more we uncover.
It's a great way to stay relative for an ever increasing fan base of answer starved Twin Peaks aficionados...
Question, looking for clarification and/or opinions.....
Are we to understand that while Tammy is in TP writing her final analysis, she is forgetting the original events (as we know them)? But upon leaving TP and heading back to the east coast, she is recovering her memory and the fog is lifting? Or is she still forgetting and Gordon will indeed be the only one to remember the "unofficial version" as stated by Jeffries the tea kettle?
Hi Brandy,
I think she is forgetting. In the "Today" chapter she still remembers that Laura Palmer was supposed to have died.
After she gets on the plane to Philadelphia, in the "Final Thoughts" chapter, it appears to me that she doesn't remember the murder as Cole's reason for going to Twin Peaks. She says, "They [the residents of Twin Peaks] meant something to you for a reason, I think, beyond just your knowing them, beyond that they were good or interesting people in their own right..."
Yeah, they meant something to Cole because of all the Blue Rose implications of the Palmer mystery. But, not one word about it from our intrepid researcher Tammy Preston, for whom Twin Peaks is simply a rapidly receding memory.
Of course, this transgresses against the typical trope of alternate reality stories, in which everything switches instantly, and usually only the Hero Protagonist has a clue that something is amiss.
But, then again, when has anyone ever accused Twin Peaks of being "typical"? 😉
- /< /\ /> -
Lol oh Jack you are such a delight to have around. 🙂
I am not asking for the writers to answer to anything. I very specifically asked Goethe opinions of the forum members. I'm curious what they think or if there were any bits I may have overlooked or misunderstood.
Additionally, I have quite often agreed with and empathised with your angst, Jack. As I have also said (many many times) is that I too have struggled a great deal with all of this. I however have come to a level of acceptance since being constantly angry about it will not get me what I want and will only cause me discomfort. Frost and Lynch certainly aren't wondering about my state of mind and how hey can ease my pain.
Lastly, I do believe, although I will have to go back and reread my response, that I asked the question "is it narcissistic." I am not prone to making definitive statements, but hey, I might have. It's been a while and I don't tend to hold on to grudges and resentments. But who knows, maybe I did say it instead of ask it. The evidence will tell. Either way, you accusation falls short since I never demanded an explanation from the artists. Only asked for conversation from fellow forumers.
But thanks for your input. Now out of curiosity, do you have anything to add to the topic of Tammy's memory and who remembers the unofficial events?
Hi Brandy,
I think she is forgetting. In the "Today" chapter she still remembers that Laura Palmer was supposed to have died.
After she gets on the plane to Philadelphia, in the "Final Thoughts" chapter, it appears to me that she doesn't remember the murder as Cole's reason for going to Twin Peaks. She says, "They [the residents of Twin Peaks] meant something to you for a reason, I think, beyond just your knowing them, beyond that they were good or interesting people in their own right..."
Yeah, they meant something to Cole because of all the Blue Rose implications of the Palmer mystery. But, not one word about it from our intrepid researcher Tammy Preston, for whom Twin Peaks is simply a rapidly receding memory.
Of course, this transgresses against the typical trope of alternate reality stories, in which everything switches instantly, and usually only the Hero Protagonist has a clue that something is amiss.
But, then again, when has anyone ever accused Twin Peaks of being "typical"? 😉
- /< /\ /> -
Good insight there. 🙂 I have been wondering about that very same bit, does she remember why Cole was there and why these people meant so much to him? Her prose does not seem to indicate that she remembers. However, it could just be Tammy being nostalgic and identifying as to why Cole cared so much about these people now that she had met them and delved into their lives. It's really hard to tell.
Jeffries said Cole would remember the unofficial version. But he did NOT say Cole would be the ONLY one.
Brandy,
I hope you realize that most of this is my way of handling what I see as "unfinished business." There is NO WAY on this earth that I will try to formulate an opinion on Tammy Preston or the Final Dossier when there are way too many escape hatches and secret chambers built in to her part of this world...in fact I should say built in to EVERYONES part of this world. I am just glad that gravity is still in effect, oh wait...maybe not so much, we would need to ask Andy about that.
I have never been so affected by a fictional story, it is almost as if I was drawn into this world AND THEN everything changed because I was in it.
How is that for narcissism?
Keep up the good work!
Jack
Brandy,
I hope you realize that most of this is my way of handling what I see as "unfinished business." There is NO WAY on this earth that I will try to formulate an opinion on Tammy Preston or the Final Dossier when there are way too many escape hatches and secret chambers built in to her part of this world...in fact I should say built in to EVERYONES part of this world. I am just glad that gravity is still in effect, oh wait...maybe not so much, we would need to ask Andy about that.
I have never been so affected by a fictional story, it is almost as if I was drawn into this world AND THEN everything changed because I was in it.
How is that for narcissism?
Keep up the good work!
Jack
I too have never been so affected or "messed up" over a television show. There has been a great deal of discussion on this. I can't even watch another show now without my self-proclaimed "Lynch goggles." I even over analyze commercials now. I don't think that's narcissistic at all. The key is understanding and identifying that our feelings and reactions are our own responsibility and not the responsibility of any one else, including the artists. The biggest piece of evidence of that in my opinion is the extreme variation in reactions and judgements of fans.
I spent many days feeling pissed off and ill. Wait, let me adjust that, I spent many WEEKS in a twisted typhoon of emotions. As I've said many times, the camaraderie of this forum has been the most helpful thing in stabilizing those emotions. It's basically group therapy. 🙂
It's okay to be angry, frustrated, and whatever else. Just keep in mind that we are all here for pretty much the same reasons, in one way or the other. This is a community. Do not ostracize the people who may be most helpful to you. Give it a chance. Enjoy it while it lasts.
"I love you Sheriff Truman."
I am not asking for the writers to answer to anything. I very specifically asked Goethe opinions of the forum members. I'm curious what they think or if there were any bits I may have overlooked or misunderstood.
Well, if you want Goethe opinions, I could suggest that Cooper made a deal with the devil (and I am thinking here of Mike/Gerard) in order to save Laura's life, and what we see in the show, along with this bit in Dossier regarding Tammy's fuzziness, points to the unforeseen consequences of his hubris (Cooper's). He thought that he could achieve his goal through employing these forces beyond his understanding, but ends up putting reality itself at stake. Laura is saved/condemned, is dead yet lives, it is both/neither. It's all very Faustian 🙂
I think that this passage with Tammy is an indication that the alteration of the timeline takes time to settle. I also read certain parts of The Return as occurring in that "meanwhile": most particularly that last scene with Sarah and the photo, and the Audrey stuff, but perhaps some other things, too. Further, I might suggest that the real action is occurring in this space "between two worlds" - if we get the Lodge stuff in there, as well. These would be events that occur outside of the normal course of time; a kind of quantum indeterminacy, maybe.
Hi Cæmeron,
That Faustian bargain might never had been made without Cooper's susceptibility to White Knight Syndrome.
As Tammy puts it:
"Cooper never could resist a bird with a broken wing - you know as well as I do by know that it's a central part of his makeup: white night syndrome, the irresistible urge to rescue every damsel in distress he came across."
Of course, this is not to be confused with the Wayne Knight syndrome - in which one becomes a frequent source of annoyance and problems for friends for no readily apparent reason):
😉
- /< /\ /> -
I am not asking for the writers to answer to anything. I very specifically asked Goethe opinions of the forum members. I'm curious what they think or if there were any bits I may have overlooked or misunderstood.
Well, if you want Goethe opinions, I could suggest that Cooper made a deal with the devil (and I am thinking here of Mike/Gerard) in order to save Laura's life, and what we see in the show, along with this bit in Dossier regarding Tammy's fuzziness, points to the unforeseen consequences of his hubris (Cooper's). He thought that he could achieve his goal through employing these forces beyond his understanding, but ends up putting reality itself at stake. Laura is saved/condemned, is dead yet lives, it is both/neither. It's all very Faustian 🙂
I think that this passage with Tammy is an indication that the alteration of the timeline takes time to settle. I also read certain parts of The Return as occurring in that "meanwhile": most particularly that last scene with Sarah and the photo, and the Audrey stuff, but perhaps some other things, too. Further, I might suggest that the real action is occurring in this space "between two worlds" - if we get the Lodge stuff in there, as well. These would be events that occur outside of the normal course of time; a kind of quantum indeterminacy, maybe.
That hand gesture in season 2 last episode where Laura says "meanwhile " ..... is it a flame? Keep my flame burning till you return in 25 years?
Hm. Maybe? I have found myself thinking more about how the first time it is this gesture of a kind of repose, and then the second time, a bone-chilling scream.
On the subject of Cole remembering, why would he not be subject to forgetfulness like everyone else? What makes him different?
On the subject of Cole remembering, why would he not be subject to forgetfulness like everyone else? What makes him different?
Good question. It could be because he is the author/dreamer/David-damn-Lynch. 😀
Or it could have something to do with those recurring dreams with Monica Bellucci.
On the subject of Cole remembering, why would he not be subject to forgetfulness like everyone else? What makes him different?
Good question. It could be because he is the author/dreamer/David-damn-Lynch. 😀
Haha 😀
I did wonder if it was along the lines of a sartori/enlightenment thing, Lynch awakened by by his dream, Coop by Naido becoming Diane. Maybe enlightenment allows for complete recall and understanding of time as wrll as space. But then, how much does Coop actually remember? He doesn't even know what the year is by the end!
Fire walk with 
