Sorry if it was over your head.
While it's a David Lynch fans dream episode. Frost and his story lines and input are all over it, so maybe you should look deeper.
The more of these the better. So, you just keep watching and raising the ratings so the rest of us can hopefully get another season
I think the "over your head" part was uncalled for. I love how not-trolly this forum is- let's debate and disagree without denigrating- please.
I say that having appreciated part 8!
I for once think people will be more likely to be watching Twin Peaks 308 in 20 years than probably any other TV show of our time. Yes, there is still mainstream, but there are way more than 2 channels nowadays, right? Heck, even 200 channels are a small thing of the past. These days there is highly profitable space for countless cult niches to survive. I really don't think Twin Peaks is risking too much by not giving up on being innovative. Fortunately, there's no need for it have the largest audience of the moment anymore. Of course, I too would like more of my friends to be watching so I could talk to them about it and watch together sometimes, but there are pretty much INFINITE possibilities of TV shows, films, cartoons, documentaries, etc available at any time for anyone with a computer and an internet connection these days, so it's only natural a lot of people are more interested in other things right now. But unlike in the 90s, the new episodes will remain available, and I'm willing to bet they will continue to be watched by old and new people for a long time, probably eventually placing them among the most watched pieces Showtime ever released. I'm really excited about how this is going, and glad it's not suffering heavy pressure and commercial interference like it happened in season 2.
Good points.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, especially the Dougie part! As frustrating as that was, it's a treat next to what we have just seen. I just hold onto hope that we will be rewarded with a prize at the end of this trippy rainbow....
I agree wholeheartedly with you, especially the Dougie part! As frustrating as that was, it's a treat next to what we have just seen. I just hold onto hope that we will be rewarded with a prize at the end of this trippy rainbow....
Actually, about 'reboot', I think you're kind of both right. When you re-start something from scratch, ignoring the previous continuity, you can as well call it a remake -- maybe with the exception of something like the new Star Trek movies, where the premise is also slightly different. At the same time, something like Star Wars - The Force Awakens, even if it's a direct continuation, goes to greath lenghts to re-establish the dynamics, the structure, the lore and mythos so it could easily be categorized as a (soft) reboot.
I do agress, however, that in the case of this new TP season there is nothing "re" (-booted, -made, -peated or -whatever) so, yeah, the "techincal" term would be sequel, continuation or... Return, really.
Eric, when it come to the "mainstreamness" of the whole thing, I do see your point. I'm absolutely, astonishingly bamboozled at how all of this came to be. To quote a tweet I read on the main site, here: (@JustinMcElroy said) "At some point, the Showtime exec that paid for Twin Peaks watched tonight's episode of Twin Peaks, and that fact brings me a lot of delight".
It's positively glorious to think about a bottomline/profit-oriented suits sitting in a screen room and the gut-wrenching panic attack something like this must have caused.
There's also one thing to consider: if you look at the credits you'll see that there's a crazy number of "Additional" and "Assistant" editors attached to this episodes which is generally a sign that the network tried to have some influence over the product (which is obvious and normal and completely understanding). And - as in any normal show - there are producers, and execs, and script supervisors, and dialogue supervisors and editors who worked on this.
I guess the commercial angle they are going for is more on the "Oh, look, Showtime just changed the history of television"/Cult-status side of things?
Another angle to take into account: these are David Lynch and Mark Frost.
DL is a successful and accomplished full rounded artist, not just a filmmaker. Director, screenwriter, editor, sound designer, actor, producer - this is just a part of the deal. The guy's a painter, a photographer and all around visual artist; a writer; a craftsman (he designs and builds pieces of forniture); a musician (composer, singer, author) with several albums on his shoulders and a producer for several bands. And -- in more than 50(!!) years of experience in all of these disciplines -- he authored and produced pieces that are largely acknowledged to range from "interesting" to "ground breaking" to "masterful".
This is someone who worked in movies and tv, mainstream and not, shooting on film and digitally, and managed to navigate the mainstream/Hollywood system without compromising (too much of) his artistic vision.
On the other hand we have Mark Frost, a novelist who also has a several decades long -- although, not as successful -- experience as a writer, producer and a filmmaker in both cinema and television.
The reason I'm making these guy's resumee is to emphatize why I believe they deserve more than a bit of trust. I don't feel they expected this thing to appeal to an incredibly vast audience but they ended up with titles like "Twin Peaks s03e08: the most important hour of television of 2017".
I've not read or know enough about big 'film' production to know that Assistant or Additional editor credits generally mean the Network / Producers are using them to have sway, so am taking that on face value as true.
I've made a few little short films / vignettes for my uni courses and for fun, esp on 48 Hour Furious Filmmaking weekends once a year here in NZ. I'm currently working on one, alone which is generating a huge respect for those involved in say, something like TP. From my meagre experience in production and especially in edit (I use Final Cut ProX), the editors assisting and / or additional to Duwayne Dunham are doing a lot of the editing grunt work, where hours simply evaporate. Rather like huge masses in space where time is bent, I'd say that more time passes while editing video than in the same timeframe if one was doing something else. 🙂 Maybe professionals make light work of it, but even so I am skeptical, beyond the above caveat that these assistants have an underlying agenda.
Actually, about 'reboot', I think you're kind of both right. When you re-start something from scratch, ignoring the previous continuity, you can as well call it a remake -- maybe with the exception of something like the new Star Trek movies, where the premise is also slightly different. At the same time, something like Star Wars - The Force Awakens, even if it's a direct continuation, goes to greath lenghts to re-establish the dynamics, the structure, the lore and mythos so it could easily be categorized as a (soft) reboot.
I do agress, however, that in the case of this new TP season there is nothing "re" (-booted, -made, -peated or -whatever) so, yeah, the "techincal" term would be sequel, continuation or... Return, really.
Eric, when it come to the "mainstreamness" of the whole thing, I do see your point. I'm absolutely, astonishingly bamboozled at how all of this came to be. To quote a tweet I read on the main site, here: (@JustinMcElroy said) "At some point, the Showtime exec that paid for Twin Peaks watched tonight's episode of Twin Peaks, and that fact brings me a lot of delight".
It's positively glorious to think about a bottomline/profit-oriented suits sitting in a screen room and the gut-wrenching panic attack something like this must have caused.
There's also one thing to consider: if you look at the credits you'll see that there's a crazy number of "Additional" and "Assistant" editors attached to this episodes which is generally a sign that the network tried to have some influence over the product (which is obvious and normal and completely understanding). And - as in any normal show - there are producers, and execs, and script supervisors, and dialogue supervisors and editors who worked on this.
I guess the commercial angle they are going for is more on the "Oh, look, Showtime just changed the history of television"/Cult-status side of things?
Another angle to take into account: these are David Lynch and Mark Frost.
DL is a successful and accomplished full rounded artist, not just a filmmaker. Director, screenwriter, editor, sound designer, actor, producer - this is just a part of the deal. The guy's a painter, a photographer and all around visual artist; a writer; a craftsman (he designs and builds pieces of forniture); a musician (composer, singer, author) with several albums on his shoulders and a producer for several bands. And -- in more than 50(!!) years of experience in all of these disciplines -- he authored and produced pieces that are largely acknowledged to range from "interesting" to "ground breaking" to "masterful".
This is someone who worked in movies and tv, mainstream and not, shooting on film and digitally, and managed to navigate the mainstream/Hollywood system without compromising (too much of) his artistic vision.
On the other hand we have Mark Frost, a novelist who also has a several decades long -- although, not as successful -- experience as a writer, producer and a filmmaker in both cinema and television.
The reason I'm making these guy's resumee is to emphatize why I believe they deserve more than a bit of trust. I don't feel they expected this thing to appeal to an incredibly vast audience but they ended up with titles like "Twin Peaks s03e08: the most important hour of television of 2017".
I've not read or know enough about big 'film' production to know that Assistant or Additional editor credits generally mean the Network / Producers are using them to have sway, so am taking that on face value as true.
I've made a few little short films / vignettes for my uni courses and for fun, esp on 48 Hour Furious Filmmaking weekends once a year here in NZ. I'm currently working on one, alone which is generating a huge respect for those involved in say, something like TP. From my meagre experience in production and especially in edit (I use Final Cut ProX), the editors assisting and / or additional to Duwayne Dunham are doing a lot of the editing grunt work, where hours simply evaporate. Rather like huge masses in space where time is bent due to gravitational pull, I'd say that more time passes while editing video than in the same timeframe if one was doing something else. 🙂 Maybe professionals make light work of it, but even so I am skeptical, beyond the above caveat that these assistants have an underlying agenda.
Also to add to M.C. Stevens points, the show is released world-wide at the same time. This is not the same as on ABC in the 90's when the internet did not exist.
"the editors assisting and / or additional to Duwayne Dunham are doing a lot of the editing grunt work, where hours simply evaporate. Rather like huge masses in space where time is bent due to gravitational pull, I'd say that more time passes while editing video than in the same timeframe if one was doing something else. "
If it had been just David Lynch & one other person editing, we could have had to wait another 3 years before it was out.
Thoughts after having read through most of the thread....
1.) The original show didn't have to compete in the over-saturated "everything's available all the time" field we have now-which made it stand out, in much the same way "Twilight Zone" did when it first aired. It's the "binge" era now....we're not so good at waiting for things.
2.) People will actually respond positively to something they haven't seen or heard before if it's both unique, and done well. Frank Zappa was living proof of this-it doesn't necessarily have to be a whole lot of people for it to work.....
3.) It seems a bit bipolar to expect DL to be one person when he's making films, then another when he's working in the "TV" format. To continue the musical analogy, I know Zappa fans who can't sit still for his orchestral work, or think the comedy stuff is dumb and just want to hear his guitar solos (hence the "shut up and play your guitar" set)....they still love the guy's work, just not all of it.
4.) If you're getting more than 2 million people to watch each episode, your show isn't in trouble. Showtime likely did this as a "prestige" project-the payoff?...down the road they'll be able to get meetings with directors who wouldn't normally even talk to them. Over time, TPR may actually make them money as well....Paramount/CBS is still making money on Star Trek TOS....!
5.) DL did tell us this was an 18-hour film. You can't really judge "Sgt Pepper" by any one of it's songs-it's greater than the sum of it's parts. I get that humans are pattern-seeking animals, I understand the drive to "make sense of it"....sometimes you just have to turn that off and "take the ride".
6.) This is an enormous amount of FUN!
Well, I guess you're right, and since nobody else seems to share my views on this, I'll put it to rest. And it's been almost a week since I saw episode 8, so the anger and disappointment I felt initially has faded away. I just couldn't see how anyone could think that ep. 8 was a great episode. Turns out evrybody else could, but me.
I was afraid that ep. 8 would ruin TP forever, that if we get anymore of this weirdnes, TP is going down the drain. Looks like I'm wrong. Ep. 8 was just not my cup of tea.
But your Beatles reference really made me think of "Revolution No. 9" on "The White Album". I guess what I'm feeling about TP now, is what some must have felt in 1968 when they first heard that track.
Even though I personally can't stand "Revolution No. 9", (I can't appreciate it as music nor as art, and I can't even listen to it), the rest of the album is just superb. So "Revolution No. 9" didn't ruin the album, and it certainly didn't ruin The Beatles career. But if the rest of the tracks on that album had been just like it, I sure think many would have wondered what the hell they were up to. And since we have seen footage in the trailers of "Big Ed" I guess there will be some more episodes in a more "traditional" style.
Btw, when you consider all the references to numbers in this new season, I think "Revolution No. 9" could have served perfect as background music in episode 8. Just imagine, "Number nine, number nine, number nine..." during that atomic bomb explosion, and then the rest of the song to the chaotic shit that follows.
So to all you episode 8 lovers: If you haven't heard "Revolution No. 9" by the Beatles, go check it out! It's right up your alley, I guarantee it! Well, maybe not all of you, but some!
And after listening to that, try Metal Machine Music by Lou Reed, followed by anything at all by the Residents.
I'm sure someone a bit more technically minded could try and sync the bomb with revolution #9 to see how it works. Someone did do it with Echoes by Pink Floyd and it's interesting. It's on YouTube under echoes of twin peaks.
In fact, The Simpons spoof of "Revolution No. 9" could have served even better as background music to episode 8, since they call it "Number 8" and Barney tells the rest of the band that the song will take them to "strange new places". Here's a link: https://youtu.be/0gW7Z3yMtDo
(Now I'm just rallying)
I'm not sure why you think Cannes would have had any issue with part 8 (or why that would have played any part in David Lynch's decision where to put part 8). Tree of Life won the 2011 Palme d'Or.
I'd also argue that part 8 is perhaps one of the most cinematic things to ever be on TV.
What if I told you that the remaining 10 episodes will be just like episode 8?! Would you still be just as thrilled?
Episode 8 actually made me angry. I don't know where Lynch is going with this. And where is Mark Frost? What was his contribution to todays episode? Did David Lynch ask for an episode all for himself? Looks like it.
What we witnessed today had no cinematic storytelling to it at all. It was just too weird. Yes, some of you say it's art, and I get that, but I'm not in an art gallery. I'm watching a TV show. I'm watching it to get entertained.
I think you're watching it wrong. Have you watched Mulholland Drive?
Fire walk with