To all you Episode 8 lovers  

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(@the-woodsman)
Lodger
Posted by: SamXTherapy

"

Gordon Cole may also be an agent of God, since he seems to have a lot of idea about what's happening, more so than most, including Cooper's closest allies in the Bureau, Diane and Albert.

"

This is an interesting thought / concept to me, especially as David Lynch himself is playing Cole, which begins to point to more 'meta' thoughts and questions that I can't quite even materialise and articulate in my little brain, but I feel it's important.

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Posted : 02/07/2017 5:18 am
(@the-woodsman)
Lodger
Posted by: Eric from Sweden

All I was saying was, if this episode was such a masterpiece, would you really want to sit through another 10 episodes just like it? Explosions, cream, gold balls, etc. I don't think anybody will, and that's why we'll just skip this episode while binge watching in the future, coz I doubt, in the whole, when it comes to the murder mystery that started this season, this episode won't matter. But that's just what I think. We still have 10 episodes more to go.

I've already re-wathed episode 8 5 times. I've only re-watched the rest of The Return once.

Twin Peaks, and most of DL's cannon, is rewarded and enriched by repeat viewing, to appreciate and decode - consciously and sub-consciously - the imagery and associations.

Episode 8 was seismically important to the Twin Peaks story. It's both expanded it, deepened it, and obsfucated it. It was simply breathtaking. 

 

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Posted : 02/07/2017 5:28 am
(@the-woodsman)
Lodger
Posted by: Eric from Sweden

All I was saying was, if this episode was such a masterpiece, would you really want to sit through another 10 episodes just like it? Explosions, cream, gold balls, etc. I don't think anybody will, and that's why we'll just skip this episode while binge watching in the future, coz I doubt, in the whole, when it comes to the murder mystery that started this season, this episode won't matter. But that's just what I think. We still have 10 episodes more to go.

I've already re-wathed episode 8 5 times. I've only re-watched the rest of The Return once.

Twin Peaks, and most of DL's cannon, is rewarded and enriched by repeat viewing, to appreciate and decode - consciously and sub-consciously - the imagery and associations.

Episode 8 was seismically important to the Twin Peaks story. It's both expanded it, deepened it, and obsfucated it. It was simply breathtaking. 

 

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Posted : 02/07/2017 5:28 am
(@pier_federico_miozzo)
Dweller

This thread still going?

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Posted : 02/07/2017 8:24 am
(@samxtherapy)
Detective
Posted by: Pier Federico Miozzo

This thread still going?

Nope, you're imagining things.  Including this reply.  Honest.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum

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Posted : 02/07/2017 9:23 am
Roberto Bella, elesea-honu, groofay and 2 people liked
(@aaron_c_wade)
RR Diner Patron

This is not a foreign world in a Disney-sponsored franchise. The characters don't speak standard English and explain in great detail how their universe works. Rarely does David Lynch use an audience character to allow such explanation. The only time I recall it happening is when Agent Desmond is explaining the symbolism of Lil's message to Sam and very recently with Chief Deputy Hawk explaining the origin of Laura's diary pages. I consider those an uncommon blessing and a tool to frame the rest of the exploration of the mystery in my viewing. Pay attention to not just the visual clues but the repetition of sounds and emotional triggers. 

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Posted : 02/07/2017 10:48 am
 FWWM
(@fwwm)
Dweller

If you want to enjoy this experience the key is feeling it, not thinking so much. During this part, if you are thinking about what you want to see, you are not experiencing this moment. Perhaps after the final chapter, if you choose to rewatch, you may find that you can enjoy this part with the knowledge of what comes next.

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Posted : 02/07/2017 12:52 pm
(@chris_bower)
Town Visitor

Sorry to be frank, but you are a reactionary hack.  

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Posted : 03/07/2017 4:27 am
(@chris_bower)
Town Visitor

This episode revealed more about the story than I ever dreamed would be revealed.  

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Posted : 03/07/2017 4:29 am
(@chris_bower)
Town Visitor

Why would Lynch want that sequence in Ep. 8 to be a "normal" one or something he would repeat? That was one of the most beautiful and horrifying things I have ever seen and one of the most straightforward responses to man's cruelty to humanity itself.   This isn't a TV show; it just might be the greatest movie a human being has ever made. 10 hours left. 🙂

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Posted : 03/07/2017 4:38 am
(@s0methingvagu3)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Eric from Sweden

 

Episode 8 actually made me angry. I don't know where Lynch is going with this. And where is Mark Frost? What was his contribution to todays episode? Did David Lynch ask for an episode all for himself? Looks like it.

 

A lot of the ideas and conceptions that appeared in episode 8 came from Frost. Just look at the Secret Histories, its all there. Frost and Lynch are in this thing together, 50/50. Lynch directed the episode, so obviously it feels like a Lynch-solo episode, but its far from it. Frost would definitely have been on board 100% of the way. 

Also, the idea that all the remaining episodes might be like this one is a completely superfluous notion, because that would mean 99% of things that have occurred on the show would barely be re-visited or resolved, which is entirely counter intuitive. I would expect the last hour of the finale to be in a similar style to episode 8, but also be similar to the ending of Season 2. 

It's okay if you didn't enjoy the episode, its not a requirement to enjoy Twin Peaks. You don't have to come with some out-there rationale to explain your frustration. For example, 

"Episode 8 didn't make us anymore wiser about anything. It was just plain weird, and again, stole valuable screen time. " 

I believe this statement is entirely false, as I personally believe we gained a mass amount of knowledge regarding the Twin Peaks universe. It wasn't "weird", unless you can give clear definitions of what weird actually is and then can apply it to the episode? Stole Valuable screen-time? You mean Lynch stole screen-time from himself? All episodes, every single minute of it, is valuable screen-time to and for the story. Saying that Lynch's own creation, which contained an "out there" episode stole screen-time is nothing but entitlement. 

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Posted : 03/07/2017 9:12 am
Roberto Bella, Sammy Weir, SamXTherapy and 1 people liked
(@s0methingvagu3)
RR Diner Patron

Also I think its useless to talk about screen-time until all 18 episodes have been released. Who is to say that all of the plots won't be wrapped up nice and neatly in a digestible package by episode 18? If that is the case then episode 8 was not wasting screen-time at all, as everything would have come together, and episode 8 would play a crucial role in that.

I always feel like these kind of threads jump the gun a little, we have no idea what is coming next or how this thing will end, or if there will be future seasons/episodes/movies. To talk about screen-time in terms of value is to indicate that we can measure every single scene on a coherent value-scale and that we can say by episode 18 "oh but this was left unanswered, why didn't he do that in episode 8 instead?" all of which is false and futile. 

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Posted : 03/07/2017 9:16 am
(@samxtherapy)
Detective

@s0methingvagu3

Here's the thing, though...

I agree with your posts above - and I've said the same in so many words - but I understand why some people don't like it or don't get it.  I don't agree with them or their reasoning but I do understand.

Tv and movies depend on moving the audience along, holding their hands and, to a degree, involving them in a sort of self reinforcing feeling of being ahead of the game.  How many shows rely on exposition, particularly the sort that wouldn't happen in real life, ever?  One of the reasons I cannot stand cop shows is because the writers always ensure every last little detail of the case - as they know it at the time - is explained to the boss, up to and including each and every investigative technique used.  It's a cheap way of getting the audience up to speed but it has no basis in reality.

Then there are the scenes featuring events which the protagonists don't yet know about, but will be vital to solving the mystery later.  This gives the viewer a sense that they know more than anyone else.  Finally, you get the neat wrap up at the end, the cops always get the right guy, the evidence is sound,justice is served and everyone goes home.

Twin Peaks throws all that out the window, and then some.  Yes, you'll get scenes that other characters don't know about but there's often no frame of reference.  On first viewing, it's just some random event or a piece of background detail that happens with no exposition, no explanation and no apparent rationale within the narrative.  So, from being the smartest person there, you become someone with even less idea of what's happening than the characters themselves, and, this being Twin Peaks, the characters don't know much, either.

Frost and Lynch do not hold your hand and guide you through it gently, explaining on the way.  They expect you to sit, watch, pay attention and remember what you see until next time, or the time after, or a dozen episodes down the line.

And that's with a plain vanilla episode.

Then you get episode 8...

I maintain - and I believe most people here think the same - there is a straightforward (in the TP sense) narrative at work, no matter how abstract or "weird" it seems.  The sequences are not, IMO open to interpretation, they are telling a definite story, which most of us here reckon we've unpacked, at least in part.  I guess, if you wanted a really, really narrow definition of everything that happened after DoppelCoop revived, then it is exposition, Frost and Lynch style.  Yes, they will tell you exactly what's been happening and why but you're going to have to work to get it.

To all the doubters, consider the cost of making the episode, setting up all the shots, the special effects, the CG and everything else that went into getting it out there.  Do you seriously think the cast and crew would have put in all that work for nothing?

Me, I still think it's the best episode yet.  I'm sure that will change as the show progresses but for now, it's still hugely enjoyable to watch and experience again.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum

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Posted : 03/07/2017 10:02 am
elesea-honu, sleevette, SomethingVague and 3 people liked
(@haxan_l_morningstar)
RR Diner Patron

I agree with pretty much everything you just said. I just want to point out that "open to interpretations" is not mutually exclusive with "straightforward narrative". Most DL's movies have a 'straightforward' narrative AND are open to interpretation - not in terms of "what happens" but in terms of "what does it all means" (which is why I generally prefer to talk about "bringing your own meaning to it").

I have the fury of my own momentum

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Posted : 04/07/2017 2:39 am
(@pier_federico_miozzo)
Dweller
Posted by: SamXTherapy

@s0methingvagu3

Here's the thing, though...

I agree with your posts above - and I've said the same in so many words - but I understand why some people don't like it or don't get it.  I don't agree with them or their reasoning but I do understand.

Tv and movies depend on moving the audience along, holding their hands and, to a degree, involving them in a sort of self reinforcing feeling of being ahead of the game.  How many shows rely on exposition, particularly the sort that wouldn't happen in real life, ever?  One of the reasons I cannot stand cop shows is because the writers always ensure every last little detail of the case - as they know it at the time - is explained to the boss, up to and including each and every investigative technique used.  It's a cheap way of getting the audience up to speed but it has no basis in reality.

Then there are the scenes featuring events which the protagonists don't yet know about, but will be vital to solving the mystery later.  This gives the viewer a sense that they know more than anyone else.  Finally, you get the neat wrap up at the end, the cops always get the right guy, the evidence is sound,justice is served and everyone goes home.

Twin Peaks throws all that out the window, and then some.  Yes, you'll get scenes that other characters don't know about but there's often no frame of reference.  On first viewing, it's just some random event or a piece of background detail that happens with no exposition, no explanation and no apparent rationale within the narrative.  So, from being the smartest person there, you become someone with even less idea of what's happening than the characters themselves, and, this being Twin Peaks, the characters don't know much, either.

Frost and Lynch do not hold your hand and guide you through it gently, explaining on the way.  They expect you to sit, watch, pay attention and remember what you see until next time, or the time after, or a dozen episodes down the line.

And that's with a plain vanilla episode.

Then you get episode 8...

I maintain - and I believe most people here think the same - there is a straightforward (in the TP sense) narrative at work, no matter how abstract or "weird" it seems.  The sequences are not, IMO open to interpretation, they are telling a definite story, which most of us here reckon we've unpacked, at least in part.  I guess, if you wanted a really, really narrow definition of everything that happened after DoppelCoop revived, then it is exposition, Frost and Lynch style.  Yes, they will tell you exactly what's been happening and why but you're going to have to work to get it.

To all the doubters, consider the cost of making the episode, setting up all the shots, the special effects, the CG and everything else that went into getting it out there.  Do you seriously think the cast and crew would have put in all that work for nothing?

Me, I still think it's the best episode yet.  I'm sure that will change as the show progresses but for now, it's still hugely enjoyable to watch and experience again.

Word.

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Posted : 04/07/2017 11:11 am
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