Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
So is the working theory that these "Woodsmen" are agents for "Mother"?
I guess it depends if you see the Experiment and Mother as the same being.
To back this up the experiment seemed to "birth" lots of things when she vomited.
In the nuclear explosion scene the woodsmen seemed to have more of a connection with the convenience store than the experiment's vomit. They both seem to be working to evil ends but I don't know if they have any alliance or relationship.
YES YES YES!
Taken from http://theosophy.wiki/en/Brother_of_the_Shadow:
"Brothers of the Shadow" is a term given by the Occultists to the Dugpas (also referred to as "Dark Brothers" or "Black Adepts"), that is, to Sorcerers and all practitioners of black magic.[1] In one of his letters, Mahatma K. H. talked about them as being "our greatest, most cruel, and — why not confess — our most potential [powerful] Enemies".[2]
The Brothers of the Shadow can be embodied or disembodied.[3] In the case of disembodied wicked human beings, they are also called elementaries. H. P. Blavatsky wrote:
The Brothers of the Shadow, devoid of physical bodies save in rare cases, bad souls living long in that realm and working according to their nature for no other end than evil until they are finally annihilated—they are the lost souls of Kâma Loka as distinguished from the “animated corpses” devoid of souls which live and move among men. These Black entities are the Dugpas, the Black Magicians.[4]
YES YES YES!
Taken from http://theosophy.wiki/en/Brother_of_the_Shadow:
"Brothers of the Shadow" is a term given by the Occultists to the Dugpas (also referred to as "Dark Brothers" or "Black Adepts"), that is, to Sorcerers and all practitioners of black magic.[1] In one of his letters, Mahatma K. H. talked about them as being "our greatest, most cruel, and — why not confess — our most potential [powerful] Enemies".[2]
The Brothers of the Shadow can be embodied or disembodied.[3] In the case of disembodied wicked human beings, they are also called elementaries. H. P. Blavatsky wrote:
The Brothers of the Shadow, devoid of physical bodies save in rare cases, bad souls living long in that realm and working according to their nature for no other end than evil until they are finally annihilated—they are the lost souls of Kâma Loka as distinguished from the “animated corpses” devoid of souls which live and move among men. These Black entities are the Dugpas, the Black Magicians.[4]
I guess we can be positive that's what they are. But what exactly they were doing both with Mr. C. and in New Mexico is another matter entirely.
Another question about woodsmen that I don't understand: are they humans or just spirits? In jail cell, morgue, forest with Cooper, probaby convenience store too, they seem to be ghostly creatures (yet visible to Ray by the way). In 1956 NM at least one of them is,I believe, flesh and blood human being, asking for light, cracking people' s skulls(!), speaking through the radio...
"asking for light, cracking people's skulls, speaking through the radio"
I just LOVE the way you put it, so casual 😀
"Hi, who are you?"
"Oh, hi - I'm just a Woodsman. I like to speak through the radio and crack people's skull. By the way... got a light?"
🙂 Yeah, just a niemal part of human daily life isn't it?;)
🙂 Yeah, just a niemal part of human daily life isn't it?;)
NORMAL, apologies, stupid phone...
Another question about woodsmen that I don't understand: are they humans or just spirits? In jail cell, morgue, forest with Cooper, probaby convenience store too, they seem to be ghostly creatures (yet visible to Ray by the way). In 1956 NM at least one of them is,I believe, flesh and blood human being, asking for light, cracking people' s skulls(!), speaking through the radio...
They seem to be spirits, but because they're all dressed up as lumberjacks, I think they might have been humans before, a group of real lumberjacks that had something happen to them to turn them this way.
Now the quote and link from Alexander J Cole above says the Dugpas can be embodied or disembodied.
Does anyone else feel like this figure that appears at Major Briggs' disappearance in season 2 episode 10 could be one of the woodsmen?
I always assume that figure to be a Dugpas so, by extension, yes, I'd assume so.
A woodsman sits in the meeting in the convenience store and speaks with The Arm when he recites what they do and the boy commands Bob to fell a victim.
"Animal Life"
Also, note the idea of descending from the air is brought into this.
🙂 Yeah, just a niemal part of human daily life isn't it?;)
NORMAL, apologies, stupid phone...
I like niemal, maybe what we are experiencing in The Return is the niemal of everyday human life, or the new normal. See we can have almost as much fun as Frost and Lynch playing with story...:-)
A woodsman sits in the meeting in the convenience store and speaks with The Arm when he recites what they do and the boy commands Bob to fell a victim.
"Animal Life"
Also, note the idea of descending from the air is brought into this.
That scene is so messed up. I remember seeing it at the cinema when it was first released...
Briggs was supposed to be an old-fashioned paternal military figure, a supporter of the law-community who was investigating the evil in twin peaks' woods, something like the bookhouse boys or the 'white', and was seeking the 'white lodge'. Phillip Jeffries was also an FBI agent who went crazy when he saw 'their meeting', and the meeting he was referring to is the one shown above, above the convenience store, the meeting between white and black, the 'intercourse between the two worlds', the mutual complicity between white and black, that they are ultimately on the same side and want the same world. Both of them wish for everything to stay the same, to pretend that they are innocent babes in the 'garden of eden', that God etc.(world of aliens, 'X files' government that will take care of things behind the scenes, spirits, etc.) will take care of them and somehow magically solve their problems, that no matter what they do, some angel/alien will come from somewhere and save them(well we see what is manifesting from this disjointed of red room, aliens, woodsmen, etc.). Both sides here are enforcing and seeking 'animal life', a postmodern 'return to the womb', ignoring the core problem(no guaranteed atom-laura-reality, it is split by the atom bomb)wishing to ignore their ethical duty in the world(in contrast, Cooper and Janey E here are actually solving the problem, which is why everyone(white and black) wants to kill them, 99% cuts through capitalism, Dougie cuts through Ike, brings justice, etc. ET solves 'home'). Ignoring that the atom is split is impossible(the song 'shes gone'), there is always infinite pain that cannot be erased, but only fought through responding to the problems with full freedom to change the basic coordinates of reality in a way that will fix the problems. This infinite pain, inability to return to the womb, drives the black's crazy pain and terror/sadism, the evil and pain behind concentration camps, refusing people the ability to create, impose justice, solve the problems because they themselves are ultimately too helpless and cowardly to actually solve the problems, so blame 'terrorists' etc. so they can continue believing they are innocent and guaranteed, like the golden-atom Laura, who they then proceed to split brutally, because her beautiful failed dreams represent the pain they are hiding from. Thus the kid in New York is trapped in the room by a billionaire, while what he can create, infinitely aspire to(what comes out of the red room) is given absolute no freedom, it is the absolute violation of capitalist tyranny, it is watched by government surveillance, barring the good cooper, then cutting the kid to pieces since he is now a terrorist, someone who could create something, solve a problem, etc., thus upsetting the sadomasichistic mess of 'animal life', the closed circle of enjoyment and intercourse that feeds both white and black.
White and black both unleash their petty spite simply because they feel pain(garmanbozia) from being torn out of nature, from being thinking-speaking beings that cannot just immerse themselves back into the primordial mess of life where they would have no problems. James can only see an old dead twin peaks, and same with BOB, both are hiding. The black tries to reduce people to animals(Mr. C says to Hastings wife: you are an example of human nature/animal life), and enjoy doing it, because they themselves have failed and need to see others fail, they believe this is 'all there is'. The secret of BOB/black is that they believe in Laura, that someone will succeed where they have failed, that no matter what they do, there will still be some great angel Laura will somehow appear and fix everything In the end of fire walk with me, we just saw lauras taking of the ring, her complete destruction, but the dream that she saw an angel somewhere keeps BOB alive, everything is OK, it always works out, the pretty angel will always save BOB, so he can continue acting the way he does. Mike could appear her with the golden atom saying, youve been tricked, wasted your life as dougie led around by the false and slowly dying dream chasing of the good laura; Cooper appears in dougie because this is what people have been doing to solve the 'Laura' problem for the last 25 years.
The golden-Laura atom is thus evil, it facilitates 'the intercourse' between the two, the ring that weds them, which allows BOB to continue because there is always some God/Laura/James etc. who really will take care of the mess, which allows him to continue violating them, but the truth is no one is solving the problems, twin peaks has been sleepwalking for 25 years, and the red room/aliens are just reflections of our failed dreams and ethical duties. Cooper has returned in a 'crack' in the mutual dream of white-black, he should now know that the old dream is dead, the fire cannot be put out, Laura is evil and dead, thus ruining black enjoyment for him, he can no longer believe an angel will save him, as BOB does.
The pain is associated with the disgust of green-nature-life its creeping everywhere, living on even outside of acceptable bounds: this is why people today only crave nostalgia and constantly resurrect old shows, when life was more within acceptable coordinates, when creativity was possible, etc., and why they hate the new twin peaks, it is creating precisely from the problems we face today, and thereby upsetting their 'animal nature'/slumber, forcing them out of their 'convenience store', just sitting there, engaging between white and black as if they are perfect atoms wedded together, and then expecting angel laura to save them, that US state is good, they protect us from terrorists, and santa is definitely coming next year, etc. even though he was murdered 25 years ago and we never see him anymore.
At the core of the formica table, that at the core of nature is atomic explosion, a primordial antagonism that creates-becoming from an antagonism(solving problems), that world-state-law-government has to be created by the struggles of people to solve the problems of how things are framed, and this becoming has been taken property by tyrants. for example by the requirements of a capitalist economy that destroys freedom, kills creativity etc, makes everything service the arbitrary and personal profits/affections of a tyrant, flattery of denise, etc., billionaire blocking and controlling the red room, locking up creativity to service his whims). When you try to find a guaranteed atom, you find an atomic explosion, Laura, tyrannical government.
Further, white is 'in on it', which is why at the end of fire walk with me Mike is overwhelemed by his arm and takes 'garmanbozia' from BOB, while above the convenience store BOB takes garmanbozia from Mike's arm(the dwarf). 'With this ring, I thee wed': good and evil both work together to maintain their cowardly slumber, avoiding the traumatic 'fact' that nothing is going to take care of them, as 'animal life' is taken care of by its instincts and 'mother nature-laura'; that without their acting against this union between white and black, the 'transcendental' frame of reality, the true freedom to change the basic coordinates of reality, to split the atom out of freedom and ethical duty, justice, etc.(ex. cooper and janey e, 99%, etc.) that they are scared to touch, since this would upset their narcissistic dream of an innocent Laura, which should have been long dead already 25 years ago.
The problem here is The secret of people like James is that he never cared about Laura's problems, just wanted to be able to pretend there was a 'prom queen' that the world does not allow to exist, so he could extract enjoyment from Laura without having to, or wanting to, solve her actual problems and upset the world. Briggs, top authority, white is black, enforcing savagery and animal life(the congressman's blue rose/dilemma)(ex. post 911 US, they have basically told everyone they are just going to be a tyranny, we will torture, no longer respect freedom, take it away whenever and from whoever we want, but everyone still wants to believe that something like freedom, ethics, etc. will still exist, as if somehow they will escape the flames by going to sleep), etc., he gives a silent nod to BOB, etc. here
black/nothing/evil is ultimately something like a bookhouse boy wanting only to hiding and pretend that everything is great and guaranteed, that law and angels will somehow save them, while they refuse any actual solving of Laura's real problems or the problems in the world; while white/everything/good is ultimately evil hiding from its duty and willfully betraying it in order to get its evil piece of the world/Laura, to tear it apart, giving it no hope for its real dreams.
whew, that was one 'deep' cup of coffee! please don't misunderstand... I appreciate ALL of your posts. I usually lose track along the way, but continue to plow through because you provide some very interesting ideas. I hope others take the time to enjoy your efforts too!
"he gives a silent nod to BOB" (from above)... I'd say part 8 was quite a loud shout to BOB 🙂
Fire walk with 
