I don't believe many are writing fan fiction, at least, not the ones I've read here, and certainly not me.
I see people trying to fit the information into some kind of order, to get a resolution or ending of sorts. My proposal is there may not be one. It's nothing more than an idea, and I'm definitely not investing any emotional attachment.
If someone can come up with the definitive answer, all well and good. My primary reason for rejecting the ones I've seen so far are because they either ignore several elements entirely, or reinterpret incidents to fit their theories, or make assumptions about event and/or characters, and in some cases, all three. Anything requiring that amount of hopscotch with the available info is suspect.
In the meantime, the discussions and ideas are interesting anyhow.
Yeah...not fan fiction in the traditional sense...but the assumptions, reinterpretations and hopscotch are pretty spot on in terms of what I'm getting at.
Absolutely Sam. I've had a very rough September and I JUST now watched 17 and 18.
I strongly believe there is not meant to be one explanation/story. It is there for our minds to make what we will. Lynch has said he films like a painter. Modern art painters usually didn't spell out a purpose or intention. That was up for each individual viewer to decide.
And yes! Music. I started to get peeved when there was so much FWWM footage, but I quickly realized it is like a recap at the end of a long piece of otherwise through-composed music.
I'd love to think the final episode was the dream and all else was real, and so, I'll take it that way for myself. (And now I'll spend weeks reading all y'all's theories anyway.)
And a funny thing that plays into Audrey's talk about wanting to leave but also wanting to stay: WE wanted some resolution. But we also wanted a show like the original, so we shoulda been prepared for a cliffhanger.
Sorry to hear you've been having a bad time, Jesse. Hope things are much better now.
Sorry to hear you've been having a bad time, Jesse. Hope things are much better now.
Getting better. Many thanks. And don't worry. Nothing was near as bad as what the Palmers went through.
Confirming the thread's opening statement: In the article here about the interview in which Lynch said another season would take years to make, he told a member of the audience the following about Audrey's story:
"What matters is what you believe happened,” he clarified. “That’s the whole thing. There are lots of things in life, and we wonder about them, and we have to come to our own conclusions. You can, for example, read a book that raises a series of questions, and you want to talk to the author, but he died a hundred years ago. That’s why everything is up to you." http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/twin-peaks-season-4-years/
Sometimes I can't help but feel it's something of a cop-out, though. Obviously, Lynch values ideas and art for the its aesthetic value more than he does a cohesive story. Okay, fine. But a lot of people come to films and TV to be fed cohesive stories. And even weird TV shows like Twin Peaks can tie together. They could have done it if they really wanted to.
And I'm left wondering whether it would have been better to have created 18 totally unconnected art pieces, rather than make it seem like he was constructing a coherent story when he wasn't.
As the season was getting towards its last few episodes, a lot of people were commenting in this forum that they were concerned that new story arcs were being introduced so late in the season that there wouldn't be enough time to resolve them. And they were absolutely right, there wasn't enough enough time to resolve them, and there was never any intention of even trying to resolve them. We were being fed a whole string of red herrings.
It's kind of like if a bunch of tourists gets on a tour bus which they are led to believe is going to take them to an interesting mystery destination. Everyone gets on the bus all excited, wondering what wonderful place they are going to end up at. They drive for many hours, and then people start to worry that the bus will run out of fuel before it gets there. Then the bus drives into a brick wall, and everyone gets out all dazed and bruised. Anyone who complains that they didn't sign up to be driven into a brick wall gets told they don't get the driver's unique driving style.
Sometimes I can't help but feel it's something of a cop-out, though. Obviously, Lynch values ideas and art for the its aesthetic value more than he does a cohesive story. Okay, fine. But a lot of people come to films and TV to be fed cohesive stories. And even weird TV shows like Twin Peaks can tie together. They could have done it if they really wanted to.
And I'm left wondering whether it would have been better to have created 18 totally unconnected art pieces, rather than make it seem like he was constructing a coherent story when he wasn't.
As the season was getting towards its last few episodes, a lot of people were commenting in this forum that they were concerned that new story arcs were being introduced so late in the season that there wouldn't be enough time to resolve them. And they were absolutely right, there wasn't enough enough time to resolve them, and there was never any intention of even trying to resolve them. We were being fed a whole string of red herrings.
It's kind of like if a bunch of tourists gets on a tour bus which they are led to believe is going to take them to an interesting mystery destination. Everyone gets on the bus all excited, wondering what wonderful place they are going to end up at. They drive for many hours, and then people start to worry that the bus will run out of fuel before it gets there. Then the bus drives into a brick wall, and everyone gets out all dazed and bruised. Anyone who complains that they didn't sign up to be driven into a brick wall gets told they don't get the driver's unique driving style.
If that was the case, I'd feel aggrieved, too. I don't, however, think that's what Lynch and Frost were doing with TPTR; I believe there is a story there, just not the one we thought, or told in the way we expected. Or rather, there are elements of what we expected but the sum of the series is - I believe - beyond the "kill the bad guys, get the girl" narrative of most thrillers. The unanswered questions are designed to be unanswered and possibly unanswerable. That's not to say it's open to interpretation; it's the emotional content that's the key and provides the context. Looking at life, like a photographer walking around New York, taking random pictures, showing events that are part way through, or just beginning or ending, without knowing the whole story. Truly being a stranger in a strange land. There's precedent for it in photography; a recent exhibition is just like that, I think it's called "Small dramas in a big city", or similar. So, why not incorporate a moving version into TPTR, for texture? It's not necessarily part of the narrative but it gives the story a ground to stand on, a sort of inverse of Chekhov's Gun.
For the record, I don't think TPTR is a dream, either; I think what happens in the show is - within the continuity - base level reality, Ground Zero, if you like. The events are as real as anything in fiction and at the very end, possibly our reality. By the same token, I don't think there are alternate timelines, parallel dimensions, alternate worlds or stuff like that, either. IMO, the whole of reality is altered, twisted and shaped by the lodge beings, the Fireman and anyone else who can faff about with such things. The end result is what we see in Episode 18.
What does it all mean? I'm still working on that; I'm assuming there is a meaning and it isn't just a "Well, make up your own minds".
Sam, you're an intelligent person, yet you still don't know what it all means yet. If it was meant to mean anything specific, wouldn't we have got it by now? And Lynch has said that what's important is whatever we believe it means, so he's given us all permission to interpret it however we want to. If he had a clear idea of what it all meant, would he really be being so vague about it all? Maybe it's just me, but if I wrote a story that had a definite meaning to it, and then I heard people come up with theories that were wrong, I'd feel the urge to correct them. I wouldn't be saying, "What's important is whatever YOU believe it means", I'd be more like, "What's important is you understand what I intended it to mean, because that's what it actually means."
If you combine this with the fact that Lynch didn't even read Mark's book, it seems to me like he doesn't even care whether it holds together. I suspect The Final Dossier will tie things together in its own way, but may contradict things in The Return. The Secret History explained a lot of back story very clearly, but in ways which contradicted some things in the TV series (including the original show). It's like they are two slightly different stories. It's all a bit of a mess really, and I think that's probably intentional.
David Lynch values the artistic process more than he does the end result. He enjoyed making this show. There's every possibility that the end result is just whatever emerged from the creative process that he was enjoying. It's like when you wake up from an insane dream and you write it all down. It doesn't make any sense, but it was very vivid and felt meaningful at the time. It was just the brain's cogs randomly turning.
I fully accept your interpretation may be correct, based on the info we have. As I said at the start, I'm not wedded to my idea.
As for not yet having worked it out, I'd defy anyone to come up with a definitive explanation; we have seen 17 or so hours of the most information packed, contradictory, red herring stuffed, mcguffin populated and plain weird thing ever. That's going to take quite some time to unpack.
I wondered about Lynch's remarks on the various ideas and interpretations, too. In a way I understand them; one of the biggest things that happened to me with songwriting was waking up to the idea that you don't have to tell a story and that the emotional/cognitive process a song can spark is sometimes the key. Which would mean, effectively, your interpretation is correct but... that doesn't mean it's a cop out; it's still a valid (pretentious statement alert) artistic statement and in many ways true, postmodern surrealism.
Maybe. 😉
The whole season was actually a thought piece on the re-pedestrianisation of Amsterdam city centre.
Has nobody else picked up in this yet?
The whole season was actually a thought piece on the re-pedestrianisation of Amsterdam city centre.
Has nobody else picked up in this yet?
Well, duh. It's obvious now you pointed it out!
Cheers, mate. That's this forum fucked, then. 😉
I am damn pleased to have been blessed with the opportunity to enjoy Mark Frost and David Lynch's latest creation. I may be pondering over it and dreaming about it for the next 25 years, and that is fine with me.
I had my first Bob nightmare in many years a couple of nights ago, even waking my fiancée by shouting out loud as I implored my friend within the dream to "RUN!" from Bob.
Good old Frank Silva; he is dead and yet he lives.
Thank God for Twin Peaks.
I am damn pleased to have been blessed with the opportunity to enjoy Mark Frost and David Lynch's latest creation. I may be pondering over it and dreaming about it for the next 25 years, and that is fine with me.
I had my first Bob nightmare in many years a couple of nights ago, even waking my fiancée by shouting out loud as I implored my friend within the dream to "RUN!" from Bob.
Good old Frank Silva; he is dead and yet he lives.
Thank God for Twin Peaks.
Just like the original show, this series has shown what can be done with the format. Maybe it hasn't attracted mass audiences but you can bet there are no end of writers, directors and actors cribbing notes like crazy. In that way, if nothing else, it's given TV an almighty kick up the arse.
As for dreams, mine are generally too literal and grounded in my own continuity and symbolism to incorporate much of Twin Peaks, except for one - more like a vignette - a couple of weeks ago.
It's been one hell of an interesting series, resolution to the ending or not. I loved every minute.
Fire walk with