Just a side note: if this was all a dream, then there's no point in buying a book that fills us in on what happened in the last non-real 25 years for non-existent characters that end up being erased from 'dream history' in the last episode anyway. So is Mark Frost shooting himself in the foot? Or does he not care because it's not his foot, but the fans'? (Yes, theory time!)
The Final Dossier, dig yourself out of the dream, $29.99+s/h!
(Sorry, I just love that I came up with that :P)
I'd be more accepting of the idea that it's a dream if the SUBJECT of the Final Dossier book wasn't in contradiction with the TV show. It's not the first time two canonical works have contradicted each other, but so close in time..? I don't know. I personally lost much of my interest for the TP universe after episode 18's ending, not because of the dream thing, but because I think that while it's okay to finish a story with a big question mark in a movie, when you invest 17 hours of your life (+25 hours for the original show) into characters you come to love, then you owe it to your readers/viewers to give them a satisfying ending, not a cop out that's only there 'for style' or, even worse in my opinion, to help get a new season.
I remember back when The Pretender, hey another TP show, got 2 TV movies after being canceled, and decided to end them with zero answers and a cliffhanger just like the show. Idiots! At least Farscape had the decency of wrapping up its story in the TV movies it got after being canceled, making it much more rewatchable material.
Anyway, Frost/Lynch disappointed after such a good run. I'm okay with it because I'm only a recent obsessive fan (and I'll always remember my special summer investigating all the goddamn red herrings left in earlier episodes), but still, it's the first time in days that I'm back on this forum and I was just dropping by to see if someone had news about a new season or posted a theory that made sense out of the ending without turning it into a stupid dream.
You're not pondering it enough, René.
I don't think it was a dream, necessarily, unless the dreamer(s) are the Fireman and Judy and everyone else is a dreamer living inside their dream (like I explained in my above post).
For me, Twin Peaks still exists in a universe, while Coop, Laura and Diane are now trapped in a separate universe. Call it the "Odessa universe." The Double R Diner still exists in Odessa though (curious). Judy put Laura there after she took Laura away from Coop in the woods (listen to the sound). Coop and Diane crossed over to the "Odessa universe" on a mission to return Laura to her home. Diane is now lost to the identity of Linda as is Laura to Carrie (though she awoke from Carrie once Sarah called for her). Coop is slipping away into the identity of Richard (and is more lost than ever now. "What year is this?"). Fireman, please help Coop! He's trapped in an infinite loop trying to save Laura.
I agree with 90% of the sentiment of the original post. But not its conclusion about the nature of Reality as posited by the fiction.
If it is a dream, what kind of dream is it?
Who is dreaming?
Us, the TV viewing audience?
Or is the reality of TWIN PEAKS up to Dale going into room 315 post-rationalised and fundamentally changed - transmuted into a non-reality, and therefore a 'dream' - because of how Cooper fundamentally changes the past?
We do live in a dream, the truth about Twin Peaks is an expression of this fundamental truth of life. Our reality is a non-physical / virtual data-stream. Those who hated the ending & the series as a whole probably have the hardest time comprehending / accepting that.
If you're talking about our consciousness only being able to work with what our senses tell us, then Yes, OK. But reality does not have interaction between multiple realities, time travel, character change, etc. etc. as per The Return.
Wow...what an amazing exhausting 18 hours. For Twin Peaks fans since 1989, like me, it's finally concluded. I've taken some time to think everything over.
Hijack,
Excellent post. Thank you. 😉
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I like your take, Jack. It is well thought out and has a personal, for you I assume, resonance to it.
My own interpretation has more to do with multiverses, but, for argument's sake, I think, as far as who is the dreamer(?) is concerned, the conception would be more akin to something like bishop Berkeley's subjective idealism. So, in a sense, the "dreamers" are the Fireman and Judy (it's their world, we're just passing through). Laura, Bob (and now Cooper with his meddling) are the most important pieces in their cosmic chess match. Humans are mere entertainment (and free-range garmonbozia, perhaps) to the Lodge entities. Cooper's idealistic world view and his adherence to how he interpreted the clues the Fireman revealed to him caused a false sense of security and he became one-track-minded and delusional. He's a pawn that doesn't fully understand his role. He underestimated Judy and failed to account for how important Laura is to her. So, Judy cast them both into a different universe of her creation and will continue to do so with each attempt that Cooper manages (if he doesn't lose his own (I)dentity entirely in the process). There's a possibility that he will eventually outsmart and destroy her, sure. And, round and round and round Coop goes. Trapped in a personal hell that he doesn't realize is a Möbius strip of his own, unintended, creation via Judy. Hopefully the Fireman can get him out of this mess.
Hi Caoimhín,
Great post.
The more I watch and think about it, the finale may just be a season final instead.
Part 18 looks more and more like a cliffhanger. And we all know what a cliffhanger implies...
😉
I appear to be the only one not buying the "dream" fiction theory. Partculatly in the literal sense.
Remember, "a dream is simply catogizing the days events by the subconscious"
"Laura and I had the same dream", "but that's impossible", "yes it is"
What is being referred to as a "dream", is a dimension or paradox, or the "two worlds"
The Dugpas, (who's meetings Jefferies attended) , are "inhabiting spirits" that can go between worlds (maybe more than two), and can effect either. Their, the similar species, and places they exist in, may resemble a "dream", but is not so simply the days events categorized
If what we've seen in S3, particularly on the last episodes, is not "real", then it is in another of the "two worlds", or, between them
This is the terrian and basis of Twin Peaks, from Lewis and Clark, to Project Blue Book, Teressa Banks and Cooper. . , not simply Dougie waking up at the end and saying he had a dream about being an FBI agent like he is Dorthy or some fan fiction crap
Very well reasoned, very well said. And I hate its truth. I absolutely hate it. Of course it's not real, its a TV show. I'd prefer a Twin Peaks that was not so damn self-aware. I'm depressed. If I can find Jeffries' hotel room I may travel back 2 years in time and fiddle with Lynch's script for parts 17 & 18. What could go wrong?
Maybe the same thing that went wrong when Agent Cooper tried to fiddle with saving Laura from dying in 1989. It's best not to fiddle. 🙂
I'd be more accepting of the dream theory (or one of the dream theories, since there are many variations) if the show ended with a confused Cooper asking what year it is and Carrie looking at him and shaking her head. But the house formerly known as the Palmer house looks as if it's occupied by black lodge entities and Carrie seems to realize this and screams. I think Cooper is starting to realize it too.
One thing I didn't catch when I first watched 17 is that when PJ finds the passage to 1989, he doesn't say to Cooper, "You'll find Laura there." He says Cooper will find Judy there. This reinforces the idea that Cooper's main mission isn't to save Laura, it's to find Judy.
I don't think he screwed up, trying to be a hero by saving Laura's life. I think he was following the overall plan to find Judy. And he succeeded. The story, dream, alternate reality can certainly continue.
I like your take, Jack. It is well thought out and has a personal, for you I assume, resonance to it.
My own interpretation has more to do with multiverses, but, for argument's sake, I think, as far as who is the dreamer(?) is concerned, the conception would be more akin to something like bishop Berkeley's subjective idealism. So, in a sense, the "dreamers" are the Fireman and Judy (it's their world, we're just passing through). Laura, Bob (and now Cooper with his meddling) are the most important pieces in their cosmic chess match. Humans are mere entertainment (and free-range garmonbozia, perhaps) to the Lodge entities. Cooper's idealistic world view and his adherence to how he interpreted the clues the Fireman revealed to him caused a false sense of security and he became one-track-minded and delusional. He's a pawn that doesn't fully understand his role. He underestimated Judy and failed to account for how important Laura is to her. So, Judy cast them both into a different universe of her creation and will continue to do so with each attempt that Cooper manages (if he doesn't lose his own (I)dentity entirely in the process). There's a possibility that he will eventually outsmart and destroy her, sure. And, round and round and round Coop goes. Trapped in a personal hell that he doesn't realize is a Möbius strip of his own, unintended, creation via Judy. Hopefully the Fireman can get him out of this mess.
Hi Caoimhín,
Great post.
The more I watch and think about it, the finale may just be a season final instead.
Part 18 looks more and more like a cliffhanger. And we all know what a cliffhanger implies...
😉
Very helpful post.
At the end, Cooper still seems naive enough to think that a meeting between Carrie/Laura and Sarah will be fruitful and healing. We saw the manifestation of the horror thing in Sarah, but Cooper apparently doesn't know about it. The lodge beings have not communicated what we saw, the audience, in the number 9 bar. We got the foreshadowing. There is definitely more to come with the Judy saga. When we saw the episode with Sarah Face, I immediately tweeted "Sarah Palmer is a void lord." That's from a video game I've been playing but it holds pretty well--where the focus for years has been on conquering a mess of demons but the biggest, baddest force is the Void that corrupts all life forms and consumes them. It seems like something on a similar track here.
I appear to be the only one not buying the "dream" fiction theory. Partculatly in the literal sense.
Remember, "a dream is simply catogizing the days events by the subconscious"
"Laura and I had the same dream", "but that's impossible", "yes it is"
What is being referred to as a "dream", is a dimension or paradox, or the "two worlds"
The Dugpas, (who's meetings Jefferies attended) , are "inhabiting spirits" that can go between worlds (maybe more than two), and can effect either. Their, the similar species, and places they exist in, may resemble a "dream", but is not so simply the days events categorized
If what we've seen in S3, particularly on the last episodes, is not "real", then it is in another of the "two worlds", or, between them
This is the terrian and basis of Twin Peaks, from Lewis and Clark, to Project Blue Book, Teressa Banks and Cooper. . , not simply Dougie waking up at the end and saying he had a dream about being an FBI agent like he is Dorthy or some fan fiction crap
The strange things that Lewis wrote about seeing or searching for has been a favorite subject of conspiracy theorists for a long time. https://www.amazon.com/Suppressed-History-America-Meriwether-Discoveries-ebook/dp/B0051OHLRA
My dissertation advisor wrote a book of poems about it called Riversongs. I've been thinking about it a lot. Funny how the past dictates the future (or at least the present musing).
"Everything was just a dream" is just about the biggest cliche cop-out of all time in television/film history. Lynch is definitely using the concept of dreams within his storytelling, but he's way beyond breaking out the snowglobe from St. Elsewhere.
I am starting to align myself with this theory the more I digest the finale, myself. But I still have some concerns regarding this theory. My main concern would be: Then what would be the purpose behind TSHOTP and the Final Dossier? What need would there be of FBI files/documents concerning the TP story? Unless (and this might be what you believe as well), In the TP universe, all of the characters, from Big Ed to Gordon Cole, really do "exist" but only in the dream world, and the characters themselves do not realize they live in a dream world. Only Jeffries and (now) Coop figured it out (and probably Desmond too). Then that would make sense why there was Project Blue Book, and the Blue rose task force, etc. simply because they knew something "supernatural" was going on but had no idea the true mystery is that they are all part of this dream world.
But, with that in mind, I am curious what your explanation/take on the Odessa segment means. Is this just another dream Coop ended up in after saving Laura in the previous dream/reality? Is he just "dream hopping" now? Also, the identity changes (Richard/Coop, Diane/Linda, Laura/Carrie) are frying my brain. I am not sure how the identity changes fit into all of this. Jesus!, sometimes I think I am dreaming all this TP shit up and none of this is real hahaha
I posted this under its own topic, but wanted to share it here as well:
understand there is a lot of angst from fans thinking this whole series is a dream, presumably by Cooper. Perhaps I can share an insight as a novelist and 13-year veteran television writer and pull some of you out of the abyss. Having this all be a dream would mean Frost and Lynch had touched the third rail of television production.
Some TV history is in order. One of the most successful series in television history was a show in the early 1980s called St. Elsewhere. It had a devoted audience and featured, among others, some great young actors such as Ed Begley, Jr., Denzel Washington and Mark Harmon. When it finally wrapped with its finale, the show's creators pulled a fast one and decided that they would reveal the entire drama, the entire series, was nothing more than a dream that a young boy was having in a hospital bed.
The revelation was a disaster! The audience, invested in these great characters for years, felt absolutely violated and let the network know it. It's actually one of the most famous screw ups in TV history, almost equal to the famous 1968 "Heidi Game" where the network cutaway from during a 1968 NFL football game between the Raiders and the Jets in its final climactic minute with the lead changing hands in the final seconds.
While Lynch is not a veteran TV guy, Mark Frost certainly is and from the very era of the the St. Elsewhere debacle. He would have never agreed to "it's all a dream" conclusion simply because I have no doubt he's well aware of the horrendous impact it has on an audience.
I would discount the "dream" interpretation entirely based simply on that.
As for my theory, I believe the real Coop returned to the Dougie household to embrace the all-American dream his character has always embraced. The Coop that found Laura again is a doppleganger. That's not the real Coop. He would never turn down a cup of coffee as he did in the Judy restaurant. The real Coop didn't have the combat skills that were used on the cowboys. The Coop that took the road trip with Laura was made from the seed of Mr. C., with Coop saying "make another one."
So if you want a happy ending, there -- you have one. Coop's journey ended at the red door of Dougie's house, even though it was brief, but poignant.
The strange things that Lewis wrote about seeing or searching for has been a favorite subject of conspiracy theorists for a long time. https://www.amazon.com/Suppressed-History-America-Meriwether-Discoveries-ebook/dp/B0051OHLRA
Hi cyndee,
Thanks for this reference, you may have just sold a book for Mr. Schrag.
(I'd look into the going rate for commissions if I were you!) 😉
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"Everything was just a dream" is just about the biggest cliche cop-out of all time in television/film history. Lynch is definitely using the concept of dreams within his storytelling, but he's way beyond breaking out the snowglobe from St. Elsewhere.
But you did watch Mulholland Drive correct?
The Cowboy made it perfectly clear that Diane Selwyn was dreaming. "Time to wake up." So Lynch has dabbled in having his plots being someone's elaborate dreams. Most of the film is Diane's dream.
There is evidence that Jeffrey Beaumont in Blue Velvet dreamed the entire plot, when he wakes up at the end of the film, with Sandy and their families happily together. Remember Frank: "In dreams I walk with you, in dreams I talk to you, in dreams you're mine."
In Industrial Symphony No 1, Julee Cruise is credited as "The Dreamself of the Heartbroken Woman."
Dreams are so important to David Lynch, and so many of his characters have been haunted by their dreams. I just personally feel, in my own opinion, that Twin Peaks was David Lynch's dream. And when Monica Belluci asked Gordon Cole, "but who is the dreamer?", he was very very troubled by that. As if he realized that he really didn't exist, and that nothing mattered as he was only a figment of a dream.
I am starting to align myself with this theory the more I digest the finale, myself. But I still have some concerns regarding this theory. My main concern would be: Then what would be the purpose behind TSHOTP and the Final Dossier? What need would there be of FBI files/documents concerning the TP story? Unless (and this might be what you believe as well), In the TP universe, all of the characters, from Big Ed to Gordon Cole, really do "exist" but only in the dream world, and the characters themselves do not realize they live in a dream world. Only Jeffries and (now) Coop figured it out (and probably Desmond too). Then that would make sense why there was Project Blue Book, and the Blue rose task force, etc. simply because they knew something "supernatural" was going on but had no idea the true mystery is that they are all part of this dream world.
But, with that in mind, I am curious what your explanation/take on the Odessa segment means. Is this just another dream Coop ended up in after saving Laura in the previous dream/reality? Is he just "dream hopping" now? Also, the identity changes (Richard/Coop, Diane/Linda, Laura/Carrie) are frying my brain. I am not sure how the identity changes fit into all of this. Jesus!, sometimes I think I am dreaming all this TP shit up and none of this is real hahaha
Isn't it fun to immerse yourself into the work of David Lynch? 🙂
I suppose the reason that so many people do not appreciate David Lynch's work is that they don't enjoy that kind of brain frying, as you so perfectly put it. Lynch works on such a subconscious level and some people can access that level with enjoyment and some people can't enjoy this kind of art/filmmaking at all.
Lynch's work moves me....it hits me at some really deep levels that i don't understand, but I love that when I watch something by David Lynch, I am drawn into that beautiful/horrible world and get to experience something intense, and it's just a beautiful indescribable thing. I wish everyone could feel how I feel, and I think most of here in these forums share that love. It's a great feeling to be so moved by art.
Fire walk with