if Coop went back and changed time to where Laura never existed - what reason would he have ever had to be in TP in the first place
Precisely to go there and change time
Also, in terms of Coop's memories, I think he knew who Judy was before he ever set foot in Twin Peaks. He'd probably know the importance of Laura as well.
Briggs can travel through time, so he'd likely have told Cole.
I loved the episode. Don't take your subjective interpretation out on the rest of us. I wish this forum was full to the brim with intelligent and enlightening discussion, instead half of the threads are just people complaining. If it let you down, and if you hated the ending, and if you do not want anymore... then why are you still here?
You are here because you are not let down. You are confused. The last two episodes were a clusterfuck of hard-to-digest allegories and secrets. Give it time. You'll come around. I'm confused too. But I love the confusion. It feeds my curiosity to re-watch these episodes until I fall asleep at my desk.
Pardon us non-Mensa members.
I quite literally mentioned the concept of subjectivity. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the show, I'm just offering some sort of rationale as to why people seem to be so disappointed yet others so eagerly enthused.
I just wish we could focus on discussion of the contents of the episode rather than focusing on how much people disliked the season simply because it didn't give them what they wanted. So many threads whose entire substance can be summed up as "I hated it so I'm gunna throw a paddy". It offers nothing.
Also, he exists independently of the timelines now (Coop), so he'd likely retain his memories. Only people existing ON the timeline would forget.
I loved the episode. Don't take your subjective interpretation out on the rest of us. I wish this forum was full to the brim with intelligent and enlightening discussion, instead half of the threads are just people complaining. If it let you down, and if you hated the ending, and if you do not want anymore... then why are you still here?
You are here because you are not let down. You are confused. The last two episodes were a clusterfuck of hard-to-digest allegories and secrets. Give it time. You'll come around. I'm confused too. But I love the confusion. It feeds my curiosity to re-watch these episodes until I fall asleep at my desk.
Pardon us non-Mensa members.
I quite literally mentioned the concept of subjectivity. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the show, I'm just offering some sort of rationale as to why people seem to be so disappointed yet others so eagerly enthused.
I just wish we could focus on discussion of the contents of the episode rather than focusing on how much people disliked the season simply because it didn't give them what they wanted. So many threads whose entire substance can be summed up as "I hated it so I'm gunna throw a paddy". It offers nothing.
You're very right about that
I can't start topics for some reason but the last post I tried to make fits in this thread I suppose.
Lynch and Frost aren't incompetent, lazy or trolls. They could have easily come up with a more "normal" ending. They wanted this ending. And I'm looking forward to pondering it for a long, long time.
'It's about the journey, not the destination.' Stephen King.
'- but it's worth calling ahead if you plan a long journey for a non-existent family re-union...' Dale Cooper (hybrid version)
the ending was .. I'm driving to your house and punching dead in the face.. that's how angry I am I am right now .. that sucked .. let's get into why that sucked ..
first off, as much as I hated Annie .. and I hated Annie .. not even a question to where the hell she is?? But your running off to have sex with Diane??
and please someone explain Richard and Linda to me cause I just did not get it at all..
sorry but no season 4 for me.. I'm good
We hate what we don't understand.
the ending was .. I'm driving to your house and punching dead in the face.. that's how angry I am I am right now .. that sucked .. let's get into why that sucked ..
first off, as much as I hated Annie .. and I hated Annie .. not even a question to where the hell she is?? But your running off to have sex with Diane??
and please someone explain Richard and Linda to me cause I just did not get it at all..
sorry but no season 4 for me.. I'm good
We hate what we don't understand.
Bingo. People rely on familiarity. It's why Transformers/Marvel films keep making so much money. It's like vanilla ice-cream..safe, reliable and predictable.
Humans have long had a fear of the unknown.
Thank you for the article because in it there was a link to this: http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/recaps/twin-peaks-series-finale-recap-back-to-black-w501072
This article really nailed it. I wish I read it last night before bed. Did anyone sleep well last night?
Thank you for the article because in it there was a link to this: http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/recaps/twin-peaks-series-finale-recap-back-to-black-w501072
This article really nailed it. I wish I read it last night before bed. Did anyone sleep well last night?
Sleep? What's that?
Long time lurker, 1st time poster. Had to sign up though, because last night wrecked me. Have enjoyed seeing the reactions and ideas you all shared over this season, but....
I have to say that I really object to one response I keep seeing whenever people have something negative to say about the finale: "If you didn't like it, then you just don't get Lynch".
Look, y'all, NOBODY "gets" Lynch. He is an artist with a very singular mind and vision. I don't care how many times you watched The Art Life, or read Catching the Big Fish. You don't "get" Lynch because he is ungettable, and that is part of his appeal to many fans - myself included.
When you follow Lynch's art, you do so knowing that you are signing up for a journey deep into uncharted terrain. It will be unfamiliar, and it will be beautiful and terrifying and mystifying. And that's OK with me, it really is.
But if my part of the bargain is to trust Lynch's navigation through the realm he has created, and to keep an open mind about what I'll see along the way, his part of the bargain should be to make the trip satisfying and worthwhile. And I'm sorry, but after Part 18, I personally feel this season was only somewhat worthwhile, and far from satisfying.
On a technical level, we're talking near perfection. As is usually the case, what I saw in terms of visual style, use of lighting, sound design, editing and atmosphere was all masterful. The cast gave generally outstanding performances as well. There was top notch work on this from Lynch and all concerned, and it far surpassed everything else I've ever seen on TV. As far as that goes, it was a genuine pleasure to see the craftsmanship on display throughout this season.
But art requires more than technical excellence to acheive true greatness. There are other qualities that must also be present. It's not easy to define what qualities I'm thinking of, but just as the famous quote goes, "I know it when I see it". And to me, I didn't see anything that made me feel like I've spent my time well watching this season. The cast tried their best to make us care about the experiences of these characters, while the storyline clearly didn't care that much about them at all. It was a show at cross purposes with itself.
Yes, I understand that Lynch deals in surrealism. But at this point, Twin Peaks is a substantive entity - an actual, well-established industry built upon characters and a mythology and a narrative (albeit very loosely structured) that are of Lynch and Frost's own making. The defense of "surrealism" feels like a cop out at this point. If there was no need for plot, no need to focus on how the threads of this saga might weave together, then why the "dossier" novels? Why the use of FWWM as a means of laying down a relatively solid backstory, and accompanying explication and plot development? Why add these dense layers and ask fans to shell out, tune in and read up, so they can know the whole story, if the story's not relevant? We were invited and encouraged to invest real time and effort. But when those who invited you act as though you were being ridiculous to expect some sort of payoff for your time, it's not unreasonable to wonder if the invitation was made in bad faith.
These were not unreasonable expectations that we as viewers placed on The Return. These are things that the show itself set in motion, in very specific and detail-oriented ways. While there was no reason to assume we'd get an ending that is either neat or complete, it would have been nice to see the show honor its own stated agendas at least a little bit. And it simply failed to do so.
I find it both interesting and annoying that many people are gleefully claiming "You got Lynched!" as a reply to anyone who dares to complain. I mean, is trolling the ultimate goal here, for either the artist or his fans? Because that sort of "Booyah!" BS is really pretty pathetic when you really think about it. You can absolutely utilize elements of provocation in art, to great effect, and Lynch has often done so. But antagonism just for the sake of it isn't necessarily enough to be called art. And the way it was deployed in this season's finale isn't particularly cute or clever. It crapped all over itself, frankly, and that was just disappointing to me after I gave it the benefit of the doubt.
Art and entertainment are both highly subjective. I have no problem with anybody who truly loved that finale. But I do have a problem with anyone who wants to invalidate MY experience by claiming that I just "don't get Lynch". Honestly, I don't mind letting him take me on the scenic route, through bad neighborhoods and hellish terrain, and dropping me off in a place I wasn't ever planning to go. But I would hope there'd be something awesome, or illuminating, or even just engaging, to look at once I got there. And when I got dropped off last night, to me, there wasn't much worth looking at.
Worst of all, I was left not caring if this "story" ever gets revisited in the future. Done devouring the Frost tie-in novels, done praying for another season, done wanting a follow-up movie. Just totally done with Twin Peaks. Have always respected Lynch and still do, but seriously. Enough is enough. Twin Peaks was always supposed to be a place both wonderful and strange - not because I said so, but because Lynch and co. specifically told me so. Part 18 - and most of the season in general - was a double order of strange with a few dashes of wonderful, and that lack of balance makes it feel like that description of Twin Peaks was false advertising. Not too satisfying from my own personal perspective.
Sorry for the rant, but man, it felt good to get that out! And of course I expect a lot of folks will think I'm wrong/an idiot/whatever. That's fine, I'm not looking for an argument, I just really enjoy seeing everyone else's perspectives and thought I'd add mine for the hell of it. See ya in 25 years! (JK, LOL, etc.)
What did you all expect? David Lynch to suddenly morph into a conventional storyteller?
Yeah, that's not David Lynch's M.O. - MODUS OPERANDI.
We all got Lynched.
It was grewt. What it was not was satisfying.
My point is, Where are the great reviews and critics that I've been reading during this season? Just for one episode this is the worst series ever?
I've experienced a lot during 16 weeks, watching pure art. Episode 8 is still untouchable or 16. I mean, not having the "right ending" spoil you all the experience?
It's like people were faking their real feelings during all these weeks..
Fire walk with