Twin Peaks, to me, has always been a dreamlike narrative, and, more than any other work of art I've "lived in," has lingered in my waking reality like a strange dream. I didn't discover the show until I was 30 years old, but my first run through the series was soaked in nostalgia, misremembered or imagined but surreally transportive.
Had I seen parts as a child (I would have been four or five) on the family TV? Something about "Falling" sounded so familiar. Was it because as a Washingtonian I had physically been to the filming locations unawares, staring up at Mount Si year after year on road trips between Spokane and Seattle? I don't know.
But the show's ability to confuse time and place in such an artful and psychedelic (almost synesthesia-like) way, like a dream, strikes me as ingenious. It confounds me. I was disappointed at first with the Dougie storyline (and still feel like the wait for Cooper's return was too prolonged; perhaps I'll feel different upon a second viewing someday) but the last three episodes of this season revived my love for the world Lynch created in Twin Peaks.
And the ending? In my opinion, a triumph! I was on the edge of my seat; I still am.
[...]
So that's my, uh, brief thoughts on the matter. Not a dream!
Fantastic stuff to chew on. Thanks!
Symbolism is a main key i think, but hard to put them into words and explain. But this time i know the mystery will be solved in one stage, but maybe takes too long. White horse, horseshoe symbols start to interest me so rewatches should be and taking notes by.
I understand there is a lot of angst from fans thinking this whole series is a dream, presumably by Cooper. Perhaps I can share an insight as a novelist and 13-year veteran television writer and pull some of you out of the abyss. Having this all be a dream would mean Frost and Lynch had touched the third rail of television production.
Some TV history is in order. One of the most successful series in television history was a show in the early 1980s called St. Elsewhere. It had a devoted audience and featured, among others, some great young actors such as Ed Begley, Jr., Denzel Washington and Mark Harmon. When it finally wrapped with its finale, the show's creators pulled a fast one and decided that they would reveal the entire drama, the entire series, was nothing more than a dream that a young boy was having in a hospital bed.
The revelation was a disaster! The audience, invested in these great characters for years, felt absolutely violated and let the network know it. It's actually one of the most famous screw ups in TV history, almost equal to the famous 1968 "Heidi Game" where the network cutaway from during a 1968 NFL football game between the Raiders and the Jets in its final climactic minute with the lead changing hands in the final seconds.
While Lynch is not a veteran TV guy, Mark Frost certainly is and from the very era of the the St. Elsewhere debacle. He would have never agreed to "it's all a dream" conclusion simply because I have no doubt he's well aware of the horrendous impact it has on an audience.
I would discount the "dream" interpretation entirely based simply on that.
As for my theory, I believe the real Coop returned to the Dougie household to embrace the all-American dream his character has always embraced. The Coop that found Laura again is a doppleganger. That's not the real Coop. He would never turn down a cup of coffee as he did in the Judy restaurant. The real Coop didn't have the combat skills that were used on the cowboys. The Coop that took the road trip with Laura was made from the seed of Mr. C., with Coop saying "make another one."
So if you want a happy ending, there -- you have one. Coop's journey ended at the red door of Dougie's house, even though it was brief, but poignant.
- I think that is exactly a reason why Lynch would make it all a dream
Twin Peaks is predominantly based in reality, the point of "we live inside a dream" is that what we consider to be "real" is a dream. There are dreams inside that reality; dreams inside of dreams, inside of dreams. David Lynch comes from the perspective that life in its entirety is a dream...
So the dream theory assumes that some mediocre FBI agent Richard dreamt all of this, took some random waitress Carrie to some house in the town of Twin Peaks thinking that he brings Laura Palmer home. Cool but there are few details that luckily contradict this theory: Chalfont/Tremond owning the house, Laura/Carrie awakening, electricity and Sarah's calling.
Still it is all about the dream but not in litteral sense. The dreamer could be The Fireman or Judy, or most probably both of them as the world can be seen as endless fight between good and evil. And Cooper is this chosen one who is aware of that (We live inside the dream) and he's able to switch between these two dreams. But it all comes with a price, he has to give up something (like his own identity, his love for Diane, his friendship with Cole, Mitchums and sheriff station crew) to save Laura and let her beat the evil. Remeber when Giant gives him clues about Richard and Linda, he agrees but with definetely bitter attitude. Cause just like ourselves in the real world he has to make choices, some of them will eventually turn wrong because obviously he cannot predict the consequences.
So basically yes, we live inside the dream. The dream of some higher forces of universe. We can think we have total control od our fate but it's not always the case.
In response to: "If it's not a dream the ending is still crap because the entire timeline has possibly been erased as well as perhaps all the characters except Richard, Linda and Carrie."
If you read The Secret History of Twin Peaks (documents archived in a dossier by "The Archivist" Major Briggs, who as we know, had a nearly omniscient All-Access Pass to every dimension)...there is a "Missing" poster of Laura Palmer but no talk of her murder, which indeed reinforces that she was "unkilled" and shifted/re-incarnated to another timeline, by Judy/Joo-Day. (Has anyone looked into this name yet, historically--both versions? Judy...Judy Garland = Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz....another dream, with dreams within a dream--or our good old buddy Judas...okay, a stretch, LOL ~ but nothing is without multiple meanings and inferences in the Lynch/Frostiverse...) And NO, I don't buy the Dreamer theory in the sense that "It was all a bust/hallucination"--Ta Da! Aka, the wrap it up with a wink and a knee slap, get your TP t-shirt on the way out and tip your bartender theory.
If you know "the business" and the heinous stigma around it (that mega-cheat-dream "device" is the TV writer graveyard, where they go to die), the brilliant, profound minds of Lynch and TV vet Frost (and this debacle was in his Hill St. Blues writing heyday, and the St. Elsewhere botch was a plague that no one would dare catch--he would *never* touch that St. Elsewhere-esque kryptonite) would dare not touch ("The Art Life," anyone? We are dealing with geniuses here and they are SO intent on weaving complex and multi-layered mystery and webs of infinite novelty, that they are far bigger than such an amateur-night cop-out, and they are the antithesis of doing/what is known in the writing world as "On The Nose.") That "industry knowledge" and awareness and understanding of their artistry alone, as the OP said, is ENOUGH to rest your weary mind, soothe your garmonbozia-soaked soul, ease your tender, red-velvet curtained hearts and potently reassure you that DL/MF would never sodomize the audience like that, with such a cheap trick.
Why? Because they love and respect their characters too much to do that. Even Lynch once said that the world of TP is almost more real to him than this one, and it never left him, its characters have lived within him ever since, and he and Frost have a deep fondness for them, and thus "The Return"...and evidenced by how long he lets the camera linger on them, for 5 to 10 minutes at a time, where even the most simple, profane moments, like sweeping a floor, become sacred. That's love. The holiness of the present moment, and he invites us into it. Gives us permission to be in it, allow it, and marinate in it; and all of it's paradoxical contradictions, and in doing so, find wholeness. The nature of life as a perceived duality, and that which is beyond it, where those dualities are included, integrated into wholeness.
There's so much more here to see, learn, know, grock, and fathom--including the above mentioned themes of time travel, inter dimensional travel and multiple timelines and incarnations, parallel universes and the world (and worlds, and worlds within worlds; dreams within dreams -- including the Waking Dream, like this one we are living) outside of time, the ever-mysterious realm of The Mythic and The Mystical...The Multidimensional Realms of Creation, and the concept that we are indeed multidimensional beings (and that there's only one of us here, LOL), amongst other esoteric concepts, mythologies/cosmologies and philosophies (coincidentally, which Lynch and Frost are extremely well-versed in, as long time meditators and metaphysical adventurers)...but one thing is for certain: they did not wrap up the show with a cheap out, as in "It's all a dream" in the literal sense, meaning it's contrived or "not real," but quite the opposite. It's a dream and not a dream. It's the paradox. A zen koan, if you will. So many dreams and so much waking up: from the cultural trance, from the illusion of separation, to and from and within the dream within the dream. I believe what the OP meant was: "Chill, it wasn't all fake, you weren't duped, it wasn't a massive 3 season hallucination that never existed." It was an AWAKENING for Coop, into the nature of reality. Symbolism, not literal.
Just because we don't completely understand the finale yet and haven't put all the puzzle pieces together (which we may never do; DL has said that he likes to create "open circles," in order to create space, so the viewer has "room to dream," in order to keep us thinking and in a state of wonderment...aka Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind! LOL); just because it is still in the Unknown or a mystery, does not mean that it is bad or wrong. In fact, one of the highest mystical teachings in the indigenous traditions is to "Be Okay With Not Knowing."
Lynch and Frost here are giving us an experience of the "Unknowable," meaning that which cannot ever be known, in the conventional sense--but can be experienced. (The Realm of the Mythic, beyond the mind--the language of the soul that speaks via archetypal energies through images, sounds, light, music, art, etc.) They are giving us super potent doses of the esoteric and the metaphysical, through direct transmission, via this medium, the vehicle of art. (Why do you think we are all so hooked?! LOL. There are deeper, archetypal truths and themes at play here, of which we have barely scratched the surface on these forums.) Our brains might not get it but our souls do, which is why we keep coming back for more. First, we can put it all into a bigger context via this Mystical Umbrella/Big Picture (knowing that we never really may know, LOL, and surrendering to that; which is a teaching in and of itself), then we can roll up our sleeves like the little Sherlock Holmes TP sleuths that we are, and dig, dig, dig! More to come on that front later, as (SO MANY of) the clues pile up.
I also agree with OP's theory that The Real Coop is in Vegas and the doppelgänger or tulpa (not the same, more will be revealed as we piece things together)--which he asked to be created--is in the Lodge. Because only one of them can be in there at a time, one must stay and one must return home, as the One Armed Man taught us....and that definitely wasn't the real Coop at the diner. Numerous clues debunked later! In the meantime... 🙂
"Row, row row your boat, gently down the stream; merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...."
I never believed it is a dream. It's real, as really real as anything in the Twin Peaks continuity.
That's the real Cooper, losing his way, his identity and possibly his marbles. He messed up. Again.
From all the theories I've read this is the one that really makes sense to me. Coop is in a loop (8) and doesn't know how to stop even though he's been warned by the Fireman to do so. He's trapped and messing with time and space. As a result reality becomes unstable. Some of the characters don't even recognize themselves and others around them, since reality is permanently shifting (is Audrey an extreme case of this or there is something more to her?). I really liked the Philip K. Dick comparison/analogy that Sam made in another thread. From this perspective the plot really echoes some of his themes and Coop does resemble some of his (anti)heroes (both naive and badass) crossing the borders of alternate realities and ending up in a big mess.
I'm also a litlle tired (no offense intended) of seeing people throwing the dream logic thing at everything they feel was unresolved. Personally I think that dream theories can virtually solve anything but then we end up with nothing in our hands. And I'm not denying the dream like qualities of the show that Lynch enjoys so much. That would be dumb. I think when changes occur because of Cooper's actions some characters feel what they lived before reality was changed as an echo of something that isn't there anymore...like they dreamt about those events. The future dictates the past, that's what I think it means.
Oh boy, I'm having a lot of overlapping thoughts on this.
I would never think it was as simple as "it was all a dream" because there are too many things that conflict with that. For instance, when does he wake up? When he fades out of the sheriff's station and ends up in the electrical room with Diane and Gordon? When he and Diane drive through the 430 line and end up near Odessa at night in the car? When he wakes up looking for Diane and finds the note from Linda? He then proceeds, as planned, to find Laura and return to Twin Peaks? None of these are like your classic "waking up from a dream" moment. He doesn't wake up in bed and forget everything, he doesn't wake up wistful and disoriented, he keeps moving forward with purpose.
So if it's not a dream, what's going on when he fades out? When he is literally watching himself interact with other characters? What are our options? I think we have two very good options.
It is related to density shifting and parallel universes-
If you need a refresher check it out here:
http://www.grantchronicles.com/astro15.htm
This is a huge factor in the world of Twin Peaks now. Bill Hastings character died because of his fascination with it. He got too close to the world of the lodges and the woodsmen. The Woodsmen shift through space and dimensions constantly when they move. The room above the convenience store is in another "density." The woodsman can travel by electricity. Dale traveled through electricity and continues to do so (through the socket, through the electrical room with Mike to see Jeffries, through the 430 line to Odessa.) Jeffries was starting to travel by density shifting and dimensional time travel in FWWM. Anyway, it's part of the story now. It's hard to film a concept that abstract and perhaps the best way to do it was the way it was confusingly done in the end.
It is a vision- Dreams and visions are not new to the Twin Peaks mythos. So much of Dale's investigation in the first season was in response to a dream he had, or more accurately a *vision*. Here is Major Briggs distinguishing between the two in season 2 episode 1:
"Bobby, may I share something with you? A vision I had in my sleep last night—as distinguished from a dream, which is a mere sorting and cataloguing of the day’s events by the subconscious. This was a vision: fresh and clear as a mountain stream, the mind revealing itself to itself."
In the original series Dale has visions that lead him to discovering Laura's killer, Major Briggs has visions that let him know that Bobby's life is going to turn around, you could argue that Laura has a vision of Annie and it lets her know what she needs to write in her diary to affect the future.
Basically if something feels like a dream in Twin Peaks but it has more significance, it's actually a vision. A vision is important, it has weight and meaning for the characters and often comes to pass at some point in the future. Visions don't negate part of the story, they add to it. The only thing is that, like the density shifting and parallel worlds, it gets a little confusing because it can feel very nonlinear in the timeline.
So that's my, uh, brief thoughts on the matter. Not a dream!
I don't know if you understand. It isn't a dream because there is a lodge in another dimension. It's not because there is Judy or Bob, Mike etc... I think noone have problem about it. There can be dimension with Black Lodge, White Lodge or Wating Room.
But...how can a room key 315, open a door in basement ? It's about simple things like this. You really didn't noticed that they didn't even go there ? The lights go out and Coop is afraid what's going on, he call "Gordon !" He have same panic in FWWM when Jeffries enter. It's not a plan. A plan was right until lights go off. What's he afraid off if it was a plan. It's simple to write about visions, same as about dream. Wow, he had a vision that 25 years later his room key will open a basement ? When did he had that vision ? In season 2 he just follow to rescue Annie and enter Waiting Room. It was spontaneous reaction. No plan no vision.
He had the key in his pants and that it.
If you know "the business" and the heinous stigma around it (that mega-cheat-dream "device" is the TV writer graveyard, where they go to die), the brilliant, profound minds of Lynch and TV vet Frost (and this debacle was in his Hill St. Blues writing heyday, and the St. Elsewhere botch was a plague that no one would dare catch--he would *never* touch that St. Elsewhere-esque kryptonite) would dare not touch ("The Art Life," anyone? We are dealing with geniuses here and they are SO intent on weaving complex and multi-layered mystery and webs of infinite novelty, that they are far bigger than such an amateur-night cop-out, and they are the antithesis of doing/what is known in the writing world as "On The Nose.") That "industry knowledge" and awareness and understanding of their artistry alone, as the OP said, is ENOUGH to rest your weary mind, soothe your garmonbozia-soaked soul, ease your tender, red-velvet curtained hearts and potently reassure you that DL/MF would never sodomize the audience like that, with such a cheap trick.
Lynch and Frost parodied TV watching in the Return. Dr. Jacoby's ridiculous Mr. Amp, Sarah watching the boxing scene on infinite loop, the young lovers in NYC staring at the black box, Sarah watching the lions devour prey. Also, when the Mitchums were watching news about Dougie/Ike incident, the news anchors had a ridiculous intro to the story.
Oh boy, I'm having a lot of overlapping thoughts on this.
I would never think it was as simple as "it was all a dream" because there are too many things that conflict with that. For instance, when does he wake up? When he fades out of the sheriff's station and ends up in the electrical room with Diane and Gordon? When he and Diane drive through the 430 line and end up near Odessa at night in the car? When he wakes up looking for Diane and finds the note from Linda? He then proceeds, as planned, to find Laura and return to Twin Peaks? None of these are like your classic "waking up from a dream" moment. He doesn't wake up in bed and forget everything, he doesn't wake up wistful and disoriented, he keeps moving forward with purpose.
So if it's not a dream, what's going on when he fades out? When he is literally watching himself interact with other characters? What are our options? I think we have two very good options.
It is related to density shifting and parallel universes-
If you need a refresher check it out here:
http://www.grantchronicles.com/astro15.htm
This is a huge factor in the world of Twin Peaks now. Bill Hastings character died because of his fascination with it. He got too close to the world of the lodges and the woodsmen. The Woodsmen shift through space and dimensions constantly when they move. The room above the convenience store is in another "density." The woodsman can travel by electricity. Dale traveled through electricity and continues to do so (through the socket, through the electrical room with Mike to see Jeffries, through the 430 line to Odessa.) Jeffries was starting to travel by density shifting and dimensional time travel in FWWM. Anyway, it's part of the story now. It's hard to film a concept that abstract and perhaps the best way to do it was the way it was confusingly done in the end.
It is a vision- Dreams and visions are not new to the Twin Peaks mythos. So much of Dale's investigation in the first season was in response to a dream he had, or more accurately a *vision*. Here is Major Briggs distinguishing between the two in season 2 episode 1:
"Bobby, may I share something with you? A vision I had in my sleep last night—as distinguished from a dream, which is a mere sorting and cataloguing of the day’s events by the subconscious. This was a vision: fresh and clear as a mountain stream, the mind revealing itself to itself."
In the original series Dale has visions that lead him to discovering Laura's killer, Major Briggs has visions that let him know that Bobby's life is going to turn around, you could argue that Laura has a vision of Annie and it lets her know what she needs to write in her diary to affect the future.
Basically if something feels like a dream in Twin Peaks but it has more significance, it's actually a vision. A vision is important, it has weight and meaning for the characters and often comes to pass at some point in the future. Visions don't negate part of the story, they add to it. The only thing is that, like the density shifting and parallel worlds, it gets a little confusing because it can feel very nonlinear in the timeline.
So that's my, uh, brief thoughts on the matter. Not a dream!
I don't know if you understand. It isn't a dream because there is a lodge in another dimension. It's not because there is Judy or Bob, Mike etc... I think noone have problem about it. There can be dimension with Black Lodge, White Lodge or Wating Room.
But...how can a room key 315, open a door in basement ? It's about simple things like this. You really didn't noticed that they didn't even go there ? The lights go out and Coop is afraid what's going on, he call "Gordon !" He have same panic in FWWM when Jeffries enter. It's not a plan. A plan was right until lights go off. What's he afraid off if it was a plan. It's simple to write about visions, same as about dream. Wow, he had a vision that 25 years later his room key will open a basement ? When did he had that vision ? In season 2 he just follow to rescue Annie and enter Waiting Room. It was spontaneous reaction. No plan no vision.
He had the key in his pants and that it.
The knob from the old room 315 door was put on the door in the basement? Or, Mike intervened at some point. He can create tulpas, not hard to imagine he can change a key design.
We live inside a dream = Reality is digital-virtual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjDQzCq6FdM
The knob from the old room 315 door was put on the door in the basement? Or, Mike intervened at some point. He can create tulpas, not hard to imagine he can change a key design.
You really don't see it ? Your translation to this is at same level as "it was a dream" "it was a vision" "Mike intervented". Exactly the same. But in this topic the dream version is attacked with another versions of the same level of seriousness. Why Mike ? Let's write it was GOD INTERVENTION. Will it be any smarter ?
Here is this scene:
Interesting lesson and good perspective.
I think the easiest way I can reconcile this being reality and not some extended dream (as in comatose for 25 years extended, like the situation perhaps that Audrey is experiencing) is that they have flat screens and cellphones.
Now if someone thinks just Season 3 is an encapsulated dream, it would be harder to refute. I think it unlikely, primarily based on the diversity of perspectives and side stories. Moreover, it's unnecessary, because there are more things in heaven and earth than dreamt of in anyone's philosophy. They had creative license to bring in dopplegangers, aliens, multidimensional beings, time travel, vortexes, manufactured beings, etc, and no dream was necessary for us to suspend disbelief.
I think either it's all real or everything is a dream. It's real to whoever is living in it. Does it hurt? Does it give pleasure? does it have mass?
I deeply respect your experience in television but seriously I think they were letting Lynch fly his freak flag here 🙂 But I agree that there will be no "nullification" like the St. Elsewhere thing. If there's any kind of loose parallel to be drawn, I'd look at the conclusion of LOST, although they are very different.
Fire walk with