About the Sync theory...
If Parts 17 and 18 were not synced then the silences in one that correspond to conversation in the other is an incredible coincidence. =:-O
I just watched the one Lynn posted, and unless whoever produced that video deliberately turned down the sound in one while emphasizing dialogue in the other, the match-up makes me suspect deliberate timing.
There has been talk here of syncing up other episodes, and I'm pretty most of them won't work. I'll bet characters will be talking over each other all of the time. Of course, Part 8 will be the exception to this rule, because of the dearth of dialogue for most of it.
Probably only Lynch would know for sure, and he'll most likely never say one way or the other. Darn it.
I admit, up front, the syncing is not perfect, But it's damn good. 😉
- /< /\ /> -
P. S. And that doesn't even mention the thematic parallels. 😉
Not necessarily. There are many scenes with little or no dialogue. Candie trying to swat a fly, Ike the Spike in his Motel Room, Jerry in the woods, most of Cooper as Mr Jackpots in the Casino, Mr C's drive to Buella's, sweeping the floor, Gordon Cole's long pause before Diane knocks on the door, Tammy walking to Cole's room, and even Richard killing the little boy.
As you mentioned, the logo colours are different but there may be a linking theme somewhere. Red logo goes with red letters, or something. I'm just guessing here.
One thing I don't understand. In the sync people go on about when Sarah smashes the picture and Laura screaming. Now, the sounds do go together and blend well between the 2 scenes but they aren't the same. In the scene when Sarah is smashing the picture we are hearing the sounds from the pilot of season one when she hears of Laura's death over the phone. But in episode 18 the sound Laura hears is actually the sounds from her mother calling up to her room in the pilot. So not the same. Is that right?
The editing is synchronized (definition: occur at the same time or rate) between certain scenes in 17 and 18. The "sync people" aren't claiming that the exact images or sounds are presented - at least I'm not. Instead, they are suggesting that the editing of the two episodes seems to have been done to have complementary images/sounds/dialogue/moods between the two episodes.
Oh, okay. My bad. I thought it was said that at that point the sound actually match up exactly. As if it's actually the same sound in both scenes . Thanks.
Throughout the series, people have offered up plenty of other potential examples of coordinated edits across or within episodes. Some silly, some compelling. Two examples that I liked:
-An earlier example where there seemed to be an intentional effort to synchronize the edits between episodes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-BDU-TvlTg
-Some people believe the following scenes can be synched together for a deeper context, meaning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJ__doruW4
For whatever reason, the scene with Ruby crawling to the Axolotl song was quite powerful for me. Seeing the synched YouTube version with Cooper and Ruby actually gave me a deeper appreciation for Cooper's situation.
There has been talk here of syncing up other episodes, and I'm pretty most of them won't work. I'll bet characters will be talking over each other all of the time. Of course, Part 8 will be the exception to this rule, because of the dearth of dialogue for most of it.
Not necessarily. There are many scenes with little or no dialogue. Candie trying to swat a fly, Ike the Spike in his Motel Room, Jerry in the woods, most of Cooper as Mr Jackpots in the Casino, Mr C's drive to Buella's, sweeping the floor, Gordon Cole's long pause before Diane knocks on the door, Tammy walking to Cole's room, and even Richard killing the little boy.
As you mentioned, the logo colours are different but there may be a linking theme somewhere. Red logo goes with red letters, or something. I'm just guessing here.
Those are good examples of long silences, so there may be something there.
But remember that very many of us at the time remarked on how noticeable and long the silences were in the last two Parts. The only other instance mentioned nearly as much was the floor sweep, as far as I can recall.
Going through all the possibilities would be a lot of work, though, there are 18!/(18-2)! possible permutations, and if my math is correct that's 73,440. And that's just two at a time. Wouldn't have to do too many to either prove or disprove my contention, however.
😉
- /< /\ /> -
I honestly was all ready to play around with videos & see what happened.. I watched through the video I posted earlier & was quite surprised that the Naido/Billy scenes meshed with the Cooper/Diane stuff.
But I was completely unprepared for the picture smashing/Laura screaming scene. That really rattled me in a way I won't forget - and it was so much more than the sum of the 2 scenes. I've watched it a couple of times more & cried every time.
Whatever debate about whether it 'fits' or not, I've been really surprised at the effect it had on me...
I got interrupted earlier so just finally finished watching the synced mashup. I still can't say whether it's intentional or not but I will say this: It works.
It works much better than viewing the two parts separately. Is it just a happy accident? Is it agenticity, pareidolia, and apophenia rolled into one? I don't know that it matters. It works as a mashup. It makes more sense to me this way and I enjoyed it immensely (which is more than I can say for watching 18 alone).
I walked away last week, quite happy with the ending and not quite 'getting' why people were so disappointed. I flicked in & out of the forum over the last week. I saw something about synching episodes up & watched some of it - then saw the last bit of episode 17 &18 and it completely freaked me out.
If folk don't want to get it - fair enough. But I suspect a geek's delight has just been launched on the world!
One thing most critics have agreed on is that TP extended or broke TV. Since the original was lauded for its strange cadences and peculiar depths, it makes sense that they'd try to do something quite different this round--something that would break the current idea of TV. TV has come very far since the 1990s as a medium, and people thought the Return couldn't stack up. Someone wrote that they thought it would just look quaint and ordinary. Fat chance! Making a series that can be viewed non-linerally, actually not a "series" in the ordinary sense, sounds like something they might try. The ending story is very Frost, but this idea is all Lynch. Moving paintings, anyone? Let's try Picasso-style.
I'm very much still mulling the sync concept over. On one hand there seems to be a lot of randomness in many places in the 17-18 sync. On the other hand some places work staggeringly well. Especially the Diane/Naido juxtaposition, the door stuff and that ending. So, there's just barely enough synchronicity there to make me think it's not coincidental.
I keep having fridge logic moments concerning the inherent "two-ness" of the season ala two Sheriff Truman's, doppelgangers, Twin Peaks, to the point that it doesn't seem that far-fetched that something like this might be intended, especially in light of Lynch's comment about the episodes being watchable in any order.
So I'm willing to run with it as a possibility even if only for an excuse to dive right back in with a new context to re-watch it all.
That said, one particular sync point strikes me as possibly very important. When Truman responds to Hawks assertion that "that is Agent Cooper" with no it isn't, it feels very much like he's referring to the Coop in the motel room who is about to have someone call him Richard. In fact, it's right around this point Coop wakes up and lays flat on his back, matching the position of dead Mr. C on the floor.
If the sync thing ends up holding any water it may very well change my thoughts on who exactly we're watching in Odessa.
Exactly!
"That is Agent Cooper"
*Coop in hotel room*
"No.... It's not..."
I keep having fridge logic moments concerning the inherent "two-ness" of the season ala two Sheriff Truman's, doppelgangers, Twin Peaks, to the point that it doesn't seem that far-fetched that something like this might be intended, especially in light of Lynch's comment about the episodes being watchable in any order.
And just to add two more points to this line of reasoning:
1) There is a "clue" in the episode - itself - in that Lynch - himself - used a superimposition of Cooper during other action, and,
2) What do we all know to be one of Lynch's favorite themes? Duality. Lynch loves this trick and never hesitates to utilize it. Duality of worlds, duality of a mirror, duality of characters. Metamorphosis in Lost Highway, Betty/Diane duality in Mulholland Drive (which is the main key towards understanding the movie), duality of main actors in Inland Empire and, of course, the absolute parade of dualities in Twin Peaks.
If Twin Peaks is meant to be Lynch's magnum opus (and I believe it is) what would be a better way to sneakily suggest, duality is so pervasive, it is happening all around us, even if we might never be aware of it?
😉
- /< /\ /> -
Hi SamX,I just read through the whole thing and, assuming the syncs are correct, that's damn amazing.
Yeah, I wish I had a way to watch them side-by-side, but I don't know how to do that. Dammit! >:-(
😉
- /< /\ /> -
If you have a version that's playable on your computer, open up two separate players, such as Quick time or VLC, then open each episode, fiddle about with pause, play and so on until the credits line up, then you're good to go.
You can obtain playable versions from (ahem) "alternative sources". 😉
You can play two simultaneously on vlc by going to media, open multiple files, select the first file, click on 'play another media synchronously' and choose the second file.
But I was completely unprepared for the picture smashing/Laura screaming scene. That really rattled me in a way I won't forget - and it was so much more than the sum of the 2 scenes. I've watched it a couple of times more & cried every time.
And the thing that just jumped out at me was the invulnerability of that picture of Laura. Sarah (Judy) is really going to town trying to destroy that photograph with the jagged remains of an empty vodka bottle. No dice. Laura, and her picture, serenely lay there on the floor, sweetly smiling up at Judy.
The message to Judy: Laura is beyond your ability to hurt anymore. She is now in her true home - the White Lodge. And that becomes more emphatically and immediately clear when watched NSYNC. 😉
Oh, and by the way, thanks so much for posting that video. Fascinating.
- /< /\ /> -
Makes me wonder if you can sync an episode from the original series. I.e. Audrey's dance.
What I would say is that if you look close enough and for long enough, you'll find patterns in everything. Everywhere. So people should tread carefully and look at this as a bit of fun rather than an absolute.
Audreys's dance (end of episode 16) does sync up - I made a post on it earlier.
http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/twin-peaks-part-17-part-18/new-sync-point/
It's a good one!
Hi folks
Been lurking here for a while, really enjoying all the creative thoughts and reactions to the series.
I just watched episode 17 and 18 side by side this morning, and (while I was trying to be sceptical and remember that you're likely to find some meaningful juxtaposition if you play almost anything together) I'm definitely persuaded that something's going on. What really began to clinch it for me is the fact that, as gregreason pointed out above, the "Lynch/Frost" screen (and also the Showtime screen) at the very end are silent, so that the Julee Cruise song plays out uninterrupted.
But what had me even more convinced was watching parts of the episode overlayed on one another, as in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDt5DG4zSL4
I haven't seen anyone mention the fact (apologies if I missed it!) that, when both episodes are overlaid, Cooper's odd behaviour begins exactly as Sarah removes the photo of Laura. He stares at the picture as she moves it, then bends and reaches towards the vacant space where the photo was. The later gestures occur in a new shot and from a different angle but he is still gesturing precisely to the space where the picture was, moments before.
Doesn't this explain Cooper's odd behaviour at this point? I'm not sure what a full interpretation would be but presumably it has something to do with parallel realities, of which Cooper somehow becomes dimly aware. We're not exactly sure when the scene of Sarah attacking the picture takes place, which adds to the "what year is this" theme.
I suppose this could have come about by accident, but it seems really pretty unlikely to me!
Another match I guess.
Open episodes 2 and 14. Go to 47'55".
- I was just sitting here ( yeah 3 seconds before in episode 2 in her armchair), having my drink (bloody mary in both scenes).
Your opinion ?
I don't know if anyone already noticed this, but at 7:31 listening to the synced versions of both episodes, I heard someone whisper "finally." It seems like either coming from the beat-up drunk in the jail or from Cooper in the Red Room, unless it is someone off camera.
Fire walk with