How could you have forgotten Denise in the mix of diverse characters? She was there all those years ago too!
Good catch.
And hasn't she done well since then. You go girl!!!
Listen up, I think we all managed to be nice to each other so far, but for the record...
I love you all, don't care who or if you worship, what colour skin you have, where you were born or live, what gender you are or wish to be.
There you go.
The first thing that sprung to mind when I read your post was this -
" Now you listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman."
That is EXACTLY what came to my mind as well! 😀
Bhahaha! What a throwback, a great scene I had forgotten!And about the backlash you got for raising these issues, that's a shame. I agree with Badalamenti Fan, they're all relevant and worthy of reflection, but sadly also hard to manage at times. So far, so good I'd say.
About the backlash you got for raising these questions, that's a shame. I agree with Badalamenti Fan, they're all relevant and worthy of reflection, but sadly also hard to manage at times. Thank god taking part is not mandatory. So far, so good I'd say. 😉
I think it's not right place to discuss those things. If there is any...
So sick of SJW. Live and let live, it's not like we're living in the 50's FFS.
Respectfully, I think the wish for these things to remain undiscussed is straight out of the 1950s... Arguably, both the idea that we've made progress since the 1950s and the persistence of nostalgia for the 1950s (both during the 1980s and, 25+ years later, still going strong...) are two themes Lynch and Frost have really brought to the fore in The Return, albeit not visibly/explicitly/literally in terms of race...
Indeed, TSHOTP unassumingly offers a context for the Woodsmen mythology by rooting The Return in deeper American history... including, in passing, the violent conquest of the Western U.S. ...
If, as these observations seem to support, one can conclude that race, gender and sexuality are deeply imbricated in underlying themes of TP and The Return , then it strikes me as entirely reasonable to ask why these themes are so deeply embedded--and not made more explicit-- in the story/stories and whether or not Frost's and Lynch's putative social critique/commentary is successful or compelling ....
Bhahaha! What a throwback, a great scene I had forgotten!
About the Reddit backlash you got for raising these questions, that's a shame. I agree with Badalamenti Fan, they're all relevant and worthy of reflection, but sadly also hard to manage at times. Thank god taking part is not mandatory. So far, so good I'd say. 😉
Just to clarify my earlier comments, perhaps I was a bit hasty with jumping into the 'I'm sick of this' argument.
I am though, to some extent. When I watch a show I don't tend to think to myself 'How are the different genders/ethnicities represented here?' unless, of course, the film revolves around that subject, or it's glaringly obviously offensive. I.E, Catherine's yellow-face in the original run.
The Josie thing is interesting. I see your point; she did stand up, take control of the situation, and rise up to a place of power..but she did do it in a very underhanded way, and I wouldn't consider her a poster woman for feminism. (Especially considering she was under Eckhart's thumb.) I get your point, though.
It's also worth noting that Peaks has been very progressive in terms of transgender-ism with Denise, especially Cole's 'fix your hearts or die' line.
Problem is, I guess, most of Peaks' characters are villainous. If you start casting minorities in those positions, you could open up a brand new can of worms. In fact, I wonder if the predominantly white cast is making a point...about the white man. Especially considering the history of Peaks is built on the Native American genocide, and Secret History states that the entire history of the Lodge is the result of a curse placed on the town because the white man stole the land...so the white man is definitely not presented as all-good here.
Still, I do apologise for implying the post was in anyway invalid.
I care about everyone, regardless of ethnicity and gender. And I like everybody on here and the fascinating discussions we have.
Bhahaha! What a throwback, a great scene I had forgotten!
About the backlash you got for raising these questions, that's a shame. I agree with Badalamenti Fan, they're all relevant and worthy of reflection, but sadly also hard to manage at times. Thank god taking part is not mandatory. So far, so good I'd say. 😉
I think you definitely live in Lynch-land haha.
I think it's not right place to discuss those things. If there is any...
So sick of SJW. Live and let live, it's not like we're living in the 50's FFS.
Respectfully, I think the wish for these things to remain undiscussed is straight out of the 1950s... Arguably, both the idea that we've made progress since the 1950s and the persistence of nostalgia for the 1950s (both during the 1980s and, 25 years, later, still going strong...) are two themes Lynch and Frost have really brought to the fore in The Return, albeit not visibly/explicitly/literally in terms of race...
Indeed, TSHOTP unassumingly offers a context for the Woodsmen mythology by rooting The Return in deeper American history... including, in passing, the violent conquest of the Western U.S. ...
If, as these observations seem to support, one can conclude that race, gender and sexuality are deeply implicated in underlying themes of TP and The Return , then it strikes me as a reasonable to ask why these themes are so deeply embedded in the story/stories and whether or not Frost's and Lynch's putative critique is successful ....
I love discussion of these issues and actively encourage it. What I don't like is being told that my opinion doesn't count because it doesn't agree with someone else's view or that I am racist/sexist/homophobic because I am absolutely not!
Just to clarify my earlier comments, perhaps I was a bit hasty with jumping into the 'I'm sick of this' argument.
I am though, to some extent. When I watch a show I don't tend to think to myself 'How are the different genders/ethnicities represented here?' unless, of course, the film revolves around that subject, or it's glaringly obviously offensive. I.E, Catherine's yellow-face in the original run.The Josie thing is interesting. I see your point; she did stand up, take control of the situation, and rise up to a place of power..but she did do it in a very underhanded way, and I wouldn't consider her a poster woman for feminism. (Especially considering she was under Eckhart's thumb.) I get your point, though.
It's also worth noting that Peaks has been very progressive in terms of transgender-ism with Denise, especially Cole's 'fix your hearts or die' line.
Problem is, I guess, most of Peaks' characters are villainous. If you start casting minorities in those positions, you could open up a brand new can of worms. In fact, I wonder if the predominantly white cast is making a point...about the white man. Especially considering the history of Peaks is built on the Native American genocide, and Secret History states that the entire history of the Lodge is the result of a curse placed on the town because the white man stole the land...so the white man is definitely not presented as all-good here.
Still, I do apologise for implying the post was in anyway invalid.
I care about everyone, regardless of ethnicity and gender. And I like everybody on here and the fascinating discussions we have.
Oops, you beat me to the punch re: TSHOTP and its critical stance toward "the white man" in U.S. history, Joshua. Couldn't agree more, and eager to discuss/explore the questions revolving around these themes here (in this topic) and going forward (on this forum)...
What's more: Kudos to all for pulling the fish out of this steaming percolator of shared ideas and perspectives-- I love it when the participants in this forum take on the bigger and decidedly vexed questions Lynch has (often/always) provoked ... without stinking up the place or ruining a good "brew."
I think it's not right place to discuss those things. If there is any...
So sick of SJW. Live and let live, it's not like we're living in the 50's FFS.
Respectfully, I think the wish for these things to remain undiscussed is straight out of the 1950s... Arguably, both the idea that we've made progress since the 1950s and the persistence of nostalgia for the 1950s (both during the 1980s and, 25 years, later, still going strong...) are two themes Lynch and Frost have really brought to the fore in The Return, albeit not visibly/explicitly/literally in terms of race...
Indeed, TSHOTP unassumingly offers a context for the Woodsmen mythology by rooting The Return in deeper American history... including, in passing, the violent conquest of the Western U.S. ...
If, as these observations seem to support, one can conclude that race, gender and sexuality are deeply implicated in underlying themes of TP and The Return , then it strikes me as a reasonable to ask why these themes are so deeply embedded in the story/stories and whether or not Frost's and Lynch's putative critique is successful ....
I love discussion of these issues and actively encourage it. What I don't like is being told that my opinion doesn't count because it doesn't agree with someone else's view or that I am racist/sexist/homophobic because I am absolutely not!
Understandable-- I wouldn't like that either, Twin Speak (btw, I love your forum name!) I don't think OP intended to tell you--or anybody else-- that their opinion doesn't count, nor to accuse anybody of being racist. In fact, I think we're more on the same page than it might have appeared at first blush...
Wish I had more time right now to discuss, in fact, but my hands are full with "case files." Alas. If this discussion wanes, I may try to revive it in the "Double RR Diner" category...
Listen up, I think we all managed to be nice to each other so far, but for the record...
I love you all, don't care who or if you worship, what colour skin you have, where you were born or live, what gender you are or wish to be.
There you go.
The first thing that sprung to mind when I read your post was this -
" Now you listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman."
That is EXACTLY what came to my mind as well! 😀
In my Top 5 all-time fav Peaks moments.
In my Top 63 all-time fav Albert moments. (He maybe only had 64, haha)
I think it's not right place to discuss those things. If there is any...
So sick of SJW. Live and let live, it's not like we're living in the 50's FFS.
Respectfully, I think the wish.......
I love discussion of these ...
Understandable--... I may try to revive it in the "Double RR Diner" category...
@ Bad Fan, Twin Speak, and the OP, et al,
I'm with this. I've read enough now to get a vibe that this community does not want a brawl, *crowd cheering madly* and it really reassures my good feeling for the forum, and more importantly, for Pieter and the enthusiasm he at times seemed to channel directly from Lynch himself as it telegraphs out of the very architecture of the site as a whole.
This site! I felt that the first time I ever stumbled onto Welcome To Twin Peaks years ago. He, Pieter, did nothing to discount the odd and paranormal quality of the world of Twin Peaks, and yet, the site always carried itself with a freshness and hopefulness; dare I call it optimism--that's Lynchian. Perhaps, optimistic in the the sense only that, prior to the director's announcement of this revival, it felt like Pieter always presumed (knew?) there would be a future chapter for Twin Peaks. (Ugh, that was muddy, but you get it).
It's that vibe, for lack of a better term, that I think attracted more of itself inherent in many subscribers, and hence, you posters to the forum. I congratulate the OP, and above posters for NOT devolving into neanderthal grade castigation. Hopefully, I have not jinxed anything. In the legitimate sense of the phrase, this is a place both wonderful and strange.
I think it's not right place to discuss those things. If there is any...
So sick of SJW. Live and let live, it's not like we're living in the 50's FFS.
My reaction to this post was jaw-dropping and visceral dismay. I read your later comments clarifying your position and that's fine. I don't like knee-jerk feminist reactions anymore than knee-jerk anti-SJW rants. I have friends and colleagues who have been vilified in Gamergate.
I agree wholeheartedly with the OP, yet I love the show as it is--and I presume she does as well. It is possible to see how white privilege shapes a project without casting it to the abyss. I agree that some feminist critiques do that. We wouldn't be able to engage here if we did, or probably stand the program let alone love it.
I don't think Lynch/Frost and company are unaware of the possible critiques. Currently reading the Secret History, I think they are quite attuned to the atrocities of treatment of Native Americans, for example. I'm not sure where they stand with the role of representation in the media. But these topics deserve thoughtful reflection, research, and deeper treatment than I can give them here.
Posted by: Badalamenti Fan
Issues of race/ethnicity and representation are also not new for Lynch. Dorothy Valens
What has Dorothy Valens (Isabella Rossellini) to do with "race issues"? She looks pretty white to me: (central) Italian, German and Swedish origins. No one here in Italy would consider her other than a white woman, just like Sherilyn Fenn and Lara Flynn Boyle. Anyway this "ethnic" issue must be something very yrev 😉 American since here an Italian is not considered anything else than a "white person", though, of course we're (like all humans) of mixed ancestry. And yes, racism and all race issues are definitely BS.
Part 3, 'The Congressman's Dilemma'.
This has all been levelled before at Lynch and he nods to it in this scene. The moments of humour when the show sends itself up are the most successful for me.
Fire walk with