Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
A show conceived, written, nurtured by two white men. Serious lack of strong (or weak) Afro-American characters (there's the Roadhouse MC played by J.R. Starr...and the gent who welcomed us to the sycamore trees many moons ago). At least the original two seasons had some Asian characters (our currently billed sole Asian character is blind/nearly mute). Hawk is native, but solicited as the last of his kind. This would have been the season to change that, but it didn't happen, and the show hasn't received much vocal criticism regarding such (as far as I've read). Twin Peaks is a "white" show (and this is particularly glaring considering the current racial climate of our country).
As far as the white women are concerned, I am curious about them, as I used to dabble in post-modern (post-human?) literary theory/criticism. I'm curious what everyone thinks, through Part 16, about feminism in Twin Peaks as a whole? Women have been raped, slaughtered, treated like meat, but they also appear to be strong, resourceful, vengeful (when they aren't tulpas created by men - e.g. Diane, this episode). Shakespearean, much? The "experiment" was created by man. Sarah Palmer was drugged by a man, every few nights or so. Men run the Lodge, the sheriff station, the Roadhouse. Josie and Catherine were probably the strongest, most influential feminist characters, and this season is void of them. Thoughts?
A show conceived, written, nurtured by two white men. Serious lack of strong (or weak) Afro-American characters (there's the Roadhouse MC played by J.R. Starr...and the gent who welcomed us to the sycamore trees many moons ago). At least the original two seasons had some Asian characters (our currently billed sole Asian character is blind/nearly mute). Hawk is native, but solicited as the last of his kind. This would have been the season to change that, but it didn't happen, and the show hasn't received much vocal criticism regarding such (as far as I've read). Twin Peaks is a "white" show (and this is particularly glaring considering the current racial climate of our country).
As far as the white women are concerned, I am curious about them, as I used to dabble in post-modern (post-human?) literary theory/criticism. I'm curious what everyone thinks, through Part 16, about feminism in Twin Peaks as a whole? Women have been raped, slaughtered, treated like meat, but they also appear to be strong, resourceful, vengeful (when they aren't tulpas created by men - e.g. Diane, this episode). Shakespearean, much? The "experiment" was created by man. Sarah Palmer was drugged by a man, every few nights or so. Men run the Lodge, the sheriff station, the Roadhouse. Josie and Catherine were probably the strongest, most influential feminist characters, and this season is void of them. Thoughts?
I think that sometimes it's ok to just enjoy a show for what it is rather than be more concerned about it's political correctness or disproportionate casting.
I think it's not right place to discuss those things. If there is any...
So sick of SJW. Live and let live, it's not like we're living in the 50's FFS.
I think the most politically correct thing to do would be to have all characters on TV and film as grey, bald, non-race & gender specific humanoids. Or alternatively we could have animals playing the roles? An international selection, water and land based, 50-50 male & female of course. Music & all other cultural references should also be banned.
I'm fed up this, basically. Every show now HAS to include minorities, HAS to worry about how women are portrayed.
Surely if you're shoe-horning in minorities just to not be accused of being white-washed, that doesn't help the situation, as they are nothing more than token characters to appease the SJW crowd?
I.E, 'Better thrown in a Chinese guy, we haven't got any Chinese guys.'
Surely that is MORE racist than simply not casting one
And in terms of 'strong female characters'..well, Laura is the chosen one, The Experiment, which is female, is the most dangerous entity on the show, and Janey-E basically kept Cooper alive for the entire season?
A massive part of the show is also about men's violence towards women, how we abuse and treat them like shit. Surely that's a pretty feminist message?
So yeah, kinda bogus, really. And if your idea of a strong female character (Josie) is a woman who murdered, lied and slept with the sheriff simply to keep him off her back, then that makes me question your definition of strong.
Not only Lynch and Frost are the sole writers of the show, but correct me if I'm wrong, TP has always been a predominantly white town. Which I think might be the case in many towns in the Pacific Northwest. I think it has been mirrored in the place Lynch grew up, and his social origins are (again, correct me if I'm wrong) in a very white middle-class.
As for Hawk, him being deemed the last of his kind is a way of bringing up the reality of native american genocide, surely? And in general, the fact that TP used to be Nez Perce territory and white men took over.
Considering TP's previous record with the representation of Asian people (Chinese mafia? That japanese business man who was actually Catherine Martell?), I'm kind of glad they stirred away from trying to represent other minorities, though? It could have ruined the show.
But at the same time, it could have worked out great! I would have liked to see more diverse ethnicities as well, but considering the context of the show, the town, the social backgrounds with which it deals, I don't think it's offensive to have this few minorities represented.
It would be nice to see more minorities, but I think this show is reflective of the demographics where these stories take place. When I lived in WA, most places were pretty white with the exception of major cities where I saw a lot of pacific islanders. I've never been to Vegas or Buckhorn. The only thing I'd say about this all is that if you are going to use, for example, a black actor, don't give him a gun or thug role (like Red's henchman). But I don't see any reason that these two show creators (who are indeed white) should be obligated to make a show about diversity, esp. when this is all a parody, send-up and tribute to old movies and soaps about goofy and dispicable white people.
Not only Lynch and Frost are the sole writers of the show, but correct me if I'm wrong, TP has always been a predominantly white town. Which I think might be the case in many towns in the Pacific Northwest. I think it has been mirrored in the place Lynch grew up, and his social origins are (again, correct me if I'm wrong) in a very white middle-class.
As for Hawk, him being deemed the last of his kind is a way of bringing up the reality of native american genocide, surely? And in general, the fact that TP used to be Nez Perce territory and white men took over.
Considering TP's previous record with the representation of Asian people (Chinese mafia? That japanese business man who was actually Catherine Martell?), I'm kind of glad they stirred away from trying to represent other minorities, though? It could have ruined the show.
But at the same time, it could have worked out great! I would have liked to see more diverse ethnicities as well, but considering the context of the show, the town, the social backgrounds with which it deals, I don't think it's offensive to have this few minorities represented.
I'm pretty sure that Hawk is not 'the last of his kind'.
Well, with regard to the feminist issue, I don't see a problem. If one wants to go down that road with the analysis, TP is as feminist as they get.
Re: race, I agree with Joshua in that I didn't get the feeling they were token casting, which I really liked. For the most part, the show is set in locations with a vastly large white population. Yes, you could have had a black security guard or young student to sacrifice in NYC (the definition of token casting IMO). The Fusco brothers could perhaps have been Hispanic, but that wouldn't have changed the face of the show, making it a "diverse" one.
But again, I'm not American, and there must be grievances that I cannot see from my point of view. Is ethnic diversity now becoming mandatory in representations of American society on TV and in cinema, even if parts of American society are not diverse at all in reality?
It's a provocative question, I know. I understand that diversity in the arts is crucial, not just for social progress, but for the sake of the arts, too. And thank god for it, because it brought about so many talents and works of arts that we wouldn't have seen otherwise. But it does not translate to artistic merit in and by itself, and it spoils a show for me when it feels dictated.
I remember the first thing I was taught about creative writing- "Write what you know." In terms of any art, we paint with the colors of our own experiences. It's only natural that art reflects the artist's identity, the artist's culture, and the artist's background. Anything else in not authentic. There is nothing bad or negative about this. At all.
Now if a corporation is creating a franchise to be written and built upon by hundreds of creators over time and seeking a mass global audience, it may make perfect sense to mandate more of a cross section of characters. But that is a PRODUCT. That is most likely not ART.
I can't think of anything more divisive and regressive than picking apart art because it does not look like a fictitious utopia where there are two of every kind living in one bland, corporate culture. PC culture is no culture.
Aren't the woodsman "black"? 😉
^^This is purely for humorous purposes.
I grew up in a suburb of Montreal, Canada. There was no other ethnicity than white-caucasian. If I was to write a script talking about my childhood in the early 80's, I'm sorry but there wouldn't be any blacks or asians in it.
I'm multi ethnic and I don't have a problem with the casting in Twin Peaks.
That's all I have to say, because I can see this thread is going to go bad, very quickly.
I'm multi ethnic and I don't have a problem with the casting in Twin Peaks.
That's all I have to say, because I can see this thread is going to go bad, very quickly.
As a multi-ethnic person, what is your view of the pushing of PC into pretty much all film and tv shows lately? Do you think it helps or hinders them?
Also, do you experience much racism where you are?
The street where I live is (as far as I can tell) all white. Are we a bunch of racists? Not that I've noticed. But it is the kind of area where people have lived for 40 + years. The city in general (well, it's a city in Scotland's terms - I'm sure 145 000 barely makes a town in some places!) is more diverse - near the universities for example. Anything set in a town near here would feature a majorly white cast. (actually, we tend to have a bit of a blue cast...) I think it would be similar to the Pacific NorthWest.
Nobody would blink if someone of another race moved here - but if someone tried to depict us as a rainbow coalition, it would look a bit trying-too-hard.
So in Twin Peaks, the place you'd expect to see a wider range of people would have been Vegas - but then you'd might run into another problem: How many of the (new this series) characters are vaguely normal? Wouldn't there be more unease about racial stereotyping of violent or stupid characters? You can still immediately diagnose any Scottish character on a UK hospital-based soap opera as having a knackered liver - no medical knowledge required! 🙂
There's also the wee matter of tulpas, doppelgangers etc - if they have to look like existing characters...
As for feminist characters - I find Josie a strange choice! It's difficult to identify some - as we're still not aware of their motivation, but I don't think that's limited to the females in the cast. Maybe they're just a bunch of characters with good bits & flaws; with some a bit doolally, some homicidal & others possibly imaginary. Set in a mainly-white small town...
I'd say Norma is a strong female character. Shelly and Lucy (even if she's goofy) are too. Tammy Preston is certainly strong. And I think the short scene of Albert and Cole leering at her ass added nothing to the narrative. Janey-E: strong. I'd say Jade is strong as well. Her occupation is OK with me. She's a highly paid professional, self-employed (no pimp) as far as I can tell.
Fire walk with 
