Coordinates  

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(@cyndeewillow)
Roadhouse Regular

I would guess that you then think Audrey is a tulpa as well.

This makes me wonder if the reason Bad Cooper rapes them is in part for their DNA to make tulpas. And to control them, of course in a totalizing kind of way. I doubt if he enjoys anything except control, but I think with him there's always a practical reason for every act. It's only relevant because to me, this would support the theory that Audrey is also a tulpa. Of course, he could just take a hair clipping, but he's also disgusting and sick.

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Posted : 02/09/2017 6:51 pm
dopplearb liked
(@caemeron)
Deputy
Posted by: Pier Federico Miozzo
Posted by: Ric Bissell
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain
Posted by: Ric Bissell

This is what I think is going on:

Recall that Diane entered the coordinates into her smartphone twice.  

Once was after she had read them from Albert's photo of Ruth's Davenport's  arm.  After long, careful examination of Ruth arm, the numbers there appear to me to be:  48 55.142 / 117 36.3956 (punctuation and spaces added).

While Diane was studying the photo she was mouthing the word "coordinates" and when entering them later, alone at the bar, she was actually spelling the word out loud.  At the end of the word she said "plus two."  Note that, in this instance, we did not see the numbers.  But what we did see, after she zoomed in enough on the map, was that this was the latitude and longitude for Twin Peaks.

The other time Diane enters the coordinates is after she receives the terrifically troubling texting-all-tulpas message from Mr. C: "🙂 ALL".  It is only this second instance in which we see the numbers she enters - 48 55.142 / 117 16.3956 

Now, without the punctuation and spaces:

c-o-o-r-d-i-n-a-t-e-s

4-8-5-5-1-4-2-1-1-7-3

4-8-5-5-1-4-2-1-1-7-

See where the "plus two" comes in?

What wasn't shown, and what I think happened, is that immediately after determining the numbers led to Twin Peaks, she sent that information to Mr. C.  After all, she was his creation, and in his thrall, replacing the raped and ravaged Diane at the "old gas station" (read "Convenience Store").

On the other hand, we know Ray was trying to kill Mr. C under the auspices of Phillip Jefferies.  Since these two are the only other source of coordinates for Mr. C we know of, I believe it was these two that led him to the lets-rock-and-roast Richard rock.

Why did Diane send the ambush location after she received the  "🙂 ALL" message?  

Mr. C only had two sets of numbers.  Once he found out the first set was bogus, he knew the second set was legitimate.  I think the  "🙂 ALL" was a Manchurian-Candidate Queen-of-Hearts trigger that allowed all of his tulpas to regain the memories of their past lives (hence Diane's reaction).  (Interestingly enough, the Queen of Hearts just happens to be the card Audrey picked for herself at the One-Eyed Mr. Jackpots  =:-O)

And, immediately after getting the message what does the visibly-shaken Diane say? "I remember.  Oh, Coop [and here she means the real Coop],  I remember!"  She then sends Mr. C the ambush coordinates and plaintively prays, "I hope this works!" - trying in vain to send Mr. C to a shocking, Sparkle-producing slaughter.

But it is too late.

Mr. C is about to Return to Twin Peaks.

Just my plus-two-cents worth!  😉

PS:  To those who think there have been too many tulpas (or maybe just too much tulpa talk in toto) already, let me just say this: 

We already know Mr. C had two - Dougie and Diane.  I would argue that Phyllis Hastings was one of his as well.  Why else were his last words to her "You followed human nature perfectly."?  =:-O

How many more?  😉

I like this. It is at very least a valiant effort to make sense of things based on what we have seen, with the advantage of getting an explanation of the "plus 2" in there. But doesn't this presume that Diane already had the fake/trick coordinates prior to seeing Ruth's arm? How did she get those, if so? And we don't see her sending coordinates prior to Part 16... Still, I like the line of thinking.

Hi  Cæmeron,

Thanks for the "valiant effort" comment.  🙂

At the time Diane saw Ruth's arm, that's the only set of coordinates she knew about - the correct set. So, she dutifully reported them to Mr. C.

However, when she gets the "🙂 ALL" (and I would suggest watching this scene again) her whole body shakes with shock, and she says, "I remember, oh Coop, I remember" and immediately gives Mr. C the coordinates for the ambush.

Where has the real Diane been for the past twenty-one years?  Is she in a place where she could communicate with the real Cooper in the Red Room?  Is she in the Red Room with Coop, Laura, Leland and Phillip Gerard?  It seems fairly obvious that someone (or several someones) with a knowledge of Richard's Rock Electric Chair wanted Mr. C to end up there and be ended there.

If Diane was privy to those plans, she remembered it - and the coordinates at which they were to be carried out.  Too bad she missed it  by a platinum-dyed hair.  If all three sets matched in may have been Richard Horne watching Mr. C cooked to a crispy critter, instead of the other way around.

True, this is all just a guess - who the hell knows with Twin Peaks and Lynch!  😉

- /< /\ /> - 

This is great.

Still help me out a bit with one thing...
She first sent the coordinates to Mr. C the day she saw em on the R. Davenport's pic right? And she then sent what she thought it was for the good of Mr. C (we do not know if the coordinates were doctored on the final picture showed to Diane for sure anyway), but er... I do not remember if she sent the coordinates to Mr.C or if she simply put them in "maps" and notices that Twin Peaks is the town those coordinates indicate (so maybe then they were not doctored at all, it would have been smarter to make em coincide with some other place).

Ric, If she only "remembered" the trick coordinates now at the bar in Part 16, doesn't that undermine your original suggestion with regard to "plus 2"? I thought you were suggesting that she memorized the coordinates on Ruth's arm so easily because she already knew the other ones, so just had to add two to the right number. Or maybe you weren't thinking that, and I just thought that I was reading what you wrote. I still think this could work, it would just leave the question as to where she got that ambush set and when. But she could have dreamt about Jeffries or something for all we know.

What about the apparent attempt to kill the Blue Rose team? Could we perhaps read this as suicide instead? 

Pier - You are correct that we do not see her sending Mr C coordinates prior to Part 16. We only see her map the coordinates on her phone. But that doesn't mean she didn't text him coordinates prior to this; it could have happened offscreen. I don't know. Seems whichever way I go I have an open question.

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Posted : 02/09/2017 6:59 pm
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Posted by: Pier Federico Miozzo
 
This is great.
 
Still help me out a bit with one thing...
She first sent the coordinates to Mr. C the day she saw em on the R. Davenport's pic right? And she then sent what she thought it was for the good of Mr. C (we do not know if the coordinates were doctored on the final picture showed to Diane for sure anyway), but er... I do not remember if she sent the coordinates to Mr.C or if she simply put them in "maps" and notices that Twin Peaks is the town those coordinates indicate (so maybe then they were not doctored at all, it would have been smarter to make em coincide with some other place).

Hi Pier,

Yes, the only thing shown was Diane confirming Ruth's arm coordinates led to Twin Peaks.

I submit, though, that it had to be Diane who sent the third set of coordinates.  We know Ray and that steampunk samovar Phillip Jefferies gave him one each.  Mr. C got three.

I don't think anyone in the Blue Rose Bunch did it.  So, unless they introduce a new character in the next day and and three hours, my money's on Dirty Diane, uh!  😉

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 02/09/2017 7:04 pm
(@dopplearb)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: cyndeewillow

I would guess that you then think Audrey is a tulpa as well.

This makes me wonder if the reason Bad Cooper rapes them is in part for their DNA to make tulpas. And to control them, of course in a totalizing kind of way. I doubt if he enjoys anything except control, but I think with him there's always a practical reason for every act. It's only relevant because to me, this would support the theory that Audrey is also a tulpa. Of course, he could just take a hair clipping, but he's also disgusting and sick.

I like this a lot but it raises a question about Chantal. 

First off, I do not believe Chantal is a tulpa. When she appeared to have been killed her body did not blast off into the ether like a deflated  balloon. So that's that.

There's the scene after Mr C kills Daria, he goes into Chantals room where it's insinuated that they have sex. He says "my you're all nice and wet" in a voice so dispassionate it almost  sounds sarcastic. I only bring this up to show that he is interested in sex not only as a way to create tulpas that he can control. It still may only be a way to exert power over her?

 

 

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Posted : 02/09/2017 7:08 pm
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Posted by: cyndeewillow

I would guess that you then think Audrey is a tulpa as well.

Hi cyndee,

No, I don't think Audrey is a tulpa.  The only one I am arguing for being a tulpa is Phyllis Hastings.  And that's only because of what Mr. C said to her before he shot her eye out.  >:-p

By the way, I am one who doesn't think we've seen the last of Audrey.  The bookended mirror scenes - Mr. C's "How's Annie" at the mirror and Audrey's mental breakdown breakthrough which ended in her looking at herself in a mirror may hint at more of a future relationship between Audrey and her Special Agent than anyone expects.  After all, Coop spent the last 25 years in a different realm of reality, and so did Audrey.  They have a lot in common.  😉

 

This makes me wonder if the reason Bad Cooper rapes them is in part for their DNA to make tulpas. And to control them, of course in a totalizing kind of way. I doubt if he enjoys anything except control, but I think with him there's always a practical reason for every act. It's only relevant because to me, this would support the theory that Audrey is also a tulpa. Of course, he could just take a hair clipping, but he's also disgusting and sick.

I think Mr. C rapes women for the same reason Leland did all those horrible things when he was possessed by BOB: to manufacture garmonbozia for the denizens of the Black Lodge to slurp down.  >:-(

😉

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 02/09/2017 7:31 pm
(@cyndeewillow)
Roadhouse Regular

It's possible that Bad Cooper was "possessed by BOB" during the rapes of Diane and Audrey. Seems quite likely. I don't think Booper is always "with" BOB (or vice versa). BOB seems to delight in mayhem. Nothing delights Bad Cooper. I don't think Booper cares about garmonbozia and in fact, the vomit scene probably turned him off of it 🙂

I am not sure what's going on with Audrey. I was dead set against another tulpa theory with her, and hope it's not so. Booper got all the DNA he ever needed in Richard, anyway--and we saw how that turned out. Who needs a tulpa when you have a child to sacrifice?

Regardless, I rather like the DNA theory and I'm sticking to it until proven wrong, which no doubt will occur. 

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Posted : 02/09/2017 8:25 pm
(@ric_bissell)
Deputy
Posted by: Cæmeron Crain
 
Ric, If she only "remembered" the trick coordinates now at the bar in Part 16, doesn't that undermine your original suggestion with regard to "plus 2"?
Hi Cæmeron,
 
Yeah, it kinda does.  Dammit.   Yet another good theory ruined by the facts.
 
CURSES!!  Foiled again!  >:-(
 
I just now went back and watched the bar scene from Part 12 again.  The weird thing is that while she is inputting in the numbers she is spelling out c-o-o-r-d-i-n-a-t-e out loud, and then she says "plus two" and it looks like she actually keyed in "+ 2".
 
Why don't you watch and let me know what you think she is doing.  😉
 
I thought you were suggesting that she memorized the coordinates on Ruth's arm so easily because she already knew the other ones, so just had to add two to the right number.
No, in my now somewhat discredited theory, the first set of coordinates she was aware of on Ruth's arm were the only ones she knew.  But at that point she was still in her non-liberated pre-"🙂 ALL" tulpa state.  After that deactivation prompt was sent to her, she remembered the ambush coordinates and tried to fool Mr. C with them.
 
I still think this could work, it would just leave the question as to where she got that ambush set and when. But she could have dreamt about Jeffries or something for all we know.

What about the apparent attempt to kill the Blue Rose team? Could we perhaps read this as suicide instead?

I think so - suicide by cop.  After one last, hard look at the trigger text, she sobs:

Diane:  I'm in the Sheriff's station...  I'm in the Sheriff's station [a good argument for Naido being Diane in disguise, by the way]... I... I sent him those coordinates... I'm in the Sheriff's station... because... because...   I'm not me!... I'm not me!... I'm not me!!

I think she was so upset when she realized she was a tulpa, she (I guess I should be saying it by now ;-)) decided to go out in a blaze of glory.

(with apologies to Jon Bon Jovi)

I don't know where I'm goin', only God knows where I've been
I'm a devil on the run, a six gun lover, a candle in the wind

When you're brought into this world, they say you're born in sin
Well at least they gave me somethin', I didn't have to steal or have to win

You ask about my conscience and I offer you my soul
You ask If I'll grow to be a wise one, well I ask if I'll grow old
You ask me if I've known love and what it's like to sing songs in the rain
Well, I've seen love come, I've seen it shot down, I've seen it die in vain

Shot down in a blaze of glory
Take me now but know the truth
I'm goin' out in a blaze of glory

😉

- /< /\ /> -

That's strange - even for Cooper

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Posted : 02/09/2017 8:47 pm
(@bonsai)
Owl

He got the first set from briggs (who got from hastings) before killing him, when he met him as the fake jeffries said in episode 2 and evil cooped confirmed the meeting

but he couldnt trust him fearing a trap so he got ray to get from hastings but he gave him the same from jeffries 

after richard gets killed in the trap he doesnt need tulpa diane anymore so he sent her the "kill them all message"

I dont think the real coordinates leads to the sheriff station (why would you need coordinates for a precise building in a precise town?) but to the place andy truman hawk and bobby went to rescue naido

 

 

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Posted : 02/09/2017 9:40 pm
(@buttercup)
Deputy

Although she was a tulpa who was manufactured in order to cooperate with Mister C, there was still some original Diane in there.  She did not need to tell the FBI about her experience with Mister C.  The facts that she told them about the rape and the convenience store would be helpful to them.  She couldn't keep herself together any longer.  That was probably the purpose for all the alcohol.  Tupla Diane was being torn apart by her loyalties to both sides.   

I can't imagine that Albert showed her the true coordinates because they already were suspicious of her.  Albert even watched her suspiciously when he showed the picture of Ruth Davenport's arm.  So if the coordinates from Diane are the ones that are different, they may be another trap.  I don't believe that they are simply to the jail in TP.  Wouldnt Mister C already know how to get to the Sherrif's Station?  He's got Cooper's memories.  

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Posted : 02/09/2017 9:43 pm
(@trina_jones)
Dweller

Dishes tupla

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Posted : 02/09/2017 10:23 pm
(@caemeron)
Deputy
Posted by: Fabrizio Boca

He got the first set from briggs (who got from hastings) before killing him, when he met him as the fake jeffries said in episode 2 and evil cooped confirmed the meeting

but he couldnt trust him fearing a trap so he got ray to get from hastings but he gave him the same from jeffries 

after richard gets killed in the trap he doesnt need tulpa diane anymore so he sent her the "kill them all message"

I dont think the real coordinates leads to the sheriff station (why would you need coordinates for a precise building in a precise town?) but to the place andy truman hawk and bobby went to rescue naido

 

 

This is an interesting suggestion. I have been presuming throughout that he didn't kill Briggs because he was still looking for coordinates, and if he had been there he could have gotten them from Ruth's arm, etc. And it was never clear to me when the meeting with Briggs referred to was. We know, e.g., that he met with Briggs some 25 years ago and likely set fire to the listening post. You are right that it does seem like he was involved with the deaths of Ruth and Briggs when he kills Phyllis, etc. But, then, he had the coordinates all along? He thought second hand coordinates from Ray would be more trustworthy? I don't know. I hope there is more information to help with this in the Final Dossier at least.

If not, I am thinking that the third set was in fact from Diane, even though she seems to have only sent them after the events with Richard, and that perhaps the solution to all of the weirdness with the text messages is something to do with interdimensionalism or whatever we want to call it. Mr C's use of technology has bordered on the magical throughout, so maybe these are like time traveling text messages. Too crazy?

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Posted : 03/09/2017 3:31 pm
dopplearb liked
(@dopplearb)
RR Diner Patron
I have been presuming throughout that he didn't kill Briggs because he was still looking for coordinates, and if he had been there he could have gotten them from Ruth's arm, etc. And it was never clear to me when the meeting with Briggs referred to was. We know, e.g., that he met with Briggs some 25 years ago and likely set fire to the listening post. You are right that it does seem like he was involved with the deaths of Ruth and Briggs when he kills Phyllis, etc. But, then, he had the coordinates all along? He thought second hand coordinates from Ray would be more trustworthy? I don't know. I hope there is more information to help with this in the Final Dossier at least.
*****
I second this. I'm still stuck wondering what/when this meeting of Mister C with Major Briggs was that Phillip Jefferies (or impersonator) refers to. And how did he know?

And how could a static percolator stuck in a motel room in a different dimension go to New York anyways?

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Posted : 03/09/2017 3:48 pm
(@dobbshead)
Roadhouse Regular

I'm in the camp that he got the first set from Briggs at the meeting.  Then from Ray, then it gets messy.  Diane and all the misinformation/timing issues, and even Jeffries doesn't seem to spell out nearly the precision as the other sets we've seen.  Doesn't he, if memory serves, only give the latitude anyway?  That we are privy to at least.  Speculation is the point though, so let's not let that stand in the way.  But, my thinking was that Cooper already must have had all his information and Jeffries sorta offhandedly referred to a known coordinate by steamumbling the first bit. 

Also, it immediately struck me when Mr. C asks about 2 the same and 1 different that the 2 the same are the dangerous ones and it's the defector that may be the genuine.  Telling Richard that he's a smart young man seemed in line with knowingly getting him scorched up from the shorts up as a sinister and contemptuous comment.  Alas, I think it's even less transparent than we might imagine from what we've seen so far. 

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Posted : 03/09/2017 4:29 pm
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