What is good and bad? These are human terms, these entities are not human and seem to rely on human instinct and emotion to feed. Are we animals upon which they feed and draw power, from our emotional investment in concepts of good and bad, but to them they are but emotions each with a different taste. Are their plans beyond our concepts of good and bad.
Eh, this is a show made by humans, who operate in a world where the terms good and bad exist.
And, I am a human, and they are terms I understand. If "good" or "bad" do not fit with what certain entities are in Twin Peaks, then ok. Can someone please just answer my question as best they can, without getting philosophical?
In Twin Peaks we have somethings that maybe could be called both 'beneath good and evil' and 'beyond good and evil':
Problem with Mike, and why he turns evil, is that his good is merely 'not-evil'(rather than not 'not-evil'): he basically accepts the world as it is, like a fully existing entity, so that all of the 'evil' and bad things are something like a natural law set for all eternity, so that for him being 'good' is just trying to avoid that desperately running around in his camper, living in the shadows as a shoe-salesman, cutting off his arm, just trying to avoid the omnipresent 'natural evil', which he cannot negate or oppose with his dreams, he cannot get 'beyond' it, dream of something better and fight for it, since he cut off his arm and then in the end becomes reliant on that 'natural evil' to provide for him and his dreams, since Bob/Mr. C now ruling the world by force. He still shares the same mindset with Bob/Mr. C/billionaires, who 'wants' the 'mother'/experiment as if it is a natural existing thing he could possess, as if he could make the government and the world his property by getting rid of the law in order to impose a reign of tyranny that operates on the principle of natural terror, 'force'(nature's blind killing and catastrophe) rules, then offering protection if people take the ring, sort of like a mafia group or business cartel that demands people's allegiance, without law or rights which can be suspended at any time, by holding the threat and fear of terrorism over them. The approach here is not 'beyond good and evil', but beneath it, not even being able to raise yourself out of the primordial animal slop in order to deal with 'good and evil', and both Mike and Bob follow this, although Mike was trying to get out but fails. Mike tries to be 'good', but fails because he dealt with 'mother nature' by cutting off the arm that has the 'MOM' tattoo on it, and he is deeply ashamed because has not been able to raise himself against it successfully. Both Mike and Bob are 'good' in the sense that they both uphold the same authority that rules the world via Mr. C/Billionaires surveillance and terror mafia; and they try to impose this 'beneath good an evil' animal ethics on all people, which is why that woodsmen shocks the jumping man which turns into a monkey, and this is what they tried to do to Sarah Palmer by destroying her family and the truck driver, but she is now against the natural order since that 'truck you' scene, doing something which is not 'not-evil', that might be considered bad, but Mike would never do it, since he tattooed MOM(it all depends here how this power of Sarah is used and on whom, not if it used at all). Bob/Mr. C and Mike both agree that the 'mother-nature' entity, sick from the sick dreams signified by the nuclear bomb and the woodsmen, fully exist, and they accept its reign, they are beneath good and evil, dreams, etc.
Beyond good and evil would be something that is closer to being not 'not-evil': it does not accept the reign of the 'evil-good' nature of the 'mother-woodsmen' dynamic, since this working back and forth of good and evil is 'good' together in the sense that both sides of it uphold a positive natural order. The vortex tears nature apart, and can give access to the genuine dreams that change the nature of reality itself, the way Mr. C/Billionaires/Woodsmen's dreams are ruling reality right now. Beyond would be looking to the dreams that are not there, not a positively existing thing to appropriate, but something like a process of justice, love, etc. that is 'evil' in the sense that it tears apart nature and things considered 'good' by the ruling order(for example, how Norma's act of going with her Twin Peaks 'family' and dumping Walter violently disregards all those 'happy customers' eating the 'lesser' pies that Walter the 'well dressed man' is organizing, for her true love and community). Dreams and nature are disconnected, thus shown as the violent vortex that causes pain and woodsmen hang around, but also Andy, Freddy, et al go up there, the Major is up there; this disconnect also gives the freedom also give the freedom to follow dreams and not be bound to a 'naturally existing' and 'merely factual' good-evil complex that could be described or defined by how things positively exist, ideas change the world, etc., thinking (dis)connects with being, 'I think therefore I am', etc......
Very intriguing! Thank you for taking the time to respond.
I'd say that we saw the 'real' Philip Jeffries (although 'real' is a strange word for someone that has transformed to a coffee pot).
Ray mentioned the Dutchman, without knowing where or what that was, so Coop went there.
If it was the real Jeffries, I'd love to know what happened between him disappearing and ending up in the convenience store in that teapot thing 🙂
That's a whole other series I'd imagine!
I'd say that we saw the 'real' Philip Jeffries (although 'real' is a strange word for someone that has transformed to a coffee pot).
Ray mentioned the Dutchman, without knowing where or what that was, so Coop went there.
If it was the real Jeffries, I'd love to know what happened between him disappearing and ending up in the convenience store in that teapot thing 🙂
That's a whole other series I'd imagine!
Struck by lightning?
Or evaporated while teleporting?
Albert
If it is Albert, he's got us all fooled. This could be true though. He was pissed off that he got tricked into providing information that resulted in an agent's death.
I've suspected Albert for some time.
What is good and bad? These are human terms, these entities are not human and seem to rely on human instinct and emotion to feed. Are we animals upon which they feed and draw power, from our emotional investment in concepts of good and bad, but to them they are but emotions each with a different taste. Are their plans beyond our concepts of good and bad.
Eh, this is a show made by humans, who operate in a world where the terms good and bad exist.
And, I am a human, and they are terms I understand. If "good" or "bad" do not fit with what certain entities are in Twin Peaks, then ok. Can someone please just answer my question as best they can, without getting philosophical?
I think it's about balance. Bad Cooper being in the world with Bob is causing an imbalance and though they are "bad" the balance is what's important
Not to mention that both Coop and Mr C are now out of the Lodge; further increasing the imbalance.
I'd say that we saw the 'real' Philip Jeffries (although 'real' is a strange word for someone that has transformed to a coffee pot).
Ray mentioned the Dutchman, without knowing where or what that was, so Coop went there.
If it was the real Jeffries, I'd love to know what happened between him disappearing and ending up in the convenience store in that teapot thing 🙂
That's a whole other series I'd imagine!
Ive watched this part again earlier and noticed something about the Jeffries scene: to the right of the 'teapot'/bell that emits the circle of smoke/steam there is an opening or passage to another room that is directly behind the teapot/bell. The real Jeffries could have been in this room and controlling the teapot/bell and talking from back there.
Another thing to note: this opening is much easier to see if Twin Peaks is watched on an old 'tube/sd tv', it is very clear. On an HD television all that you see is a black space/opening to the right of the teapot/bell, while on an sd/tube television you see clearly an archway/opening and you see the other room back there, its back wall, so there is definatley a room(seems like a control room) directly behind the teapot/bell machine......
In fact, the entire convenience store scene is much better looking on an tube/sd tv in general, on the HD tv a large portion of the visual are blacked out, with some scenes missing altogether. For example: right after Mr. C disappears above the stairs, on the HD tv all I saw was mostly black with some forest on the sides, but when I checked it on the tube/sd TV there is an entire completely clear scene of a deep forest. Much more can be seen clearly on the tube/sd tv including when Mr. C is walking through the basement with the woodsmen and the forest appears on both sides; and this scene was very distinct and impressive visually on the tube/sd tv while on the HD tv all you can really see is black and barely make out the trees and deep forest encroaching on the sides....
This is not the only time something like this has happened, there are blacked out scenes during Andy's vision in the lodge with the fireman that can only be scene on a tube/sd tv(showing electricity lines and more of the red curtains right before Laura with the angels), and also after the Janey E/Dougie sex scene the black on the HD shows a hidden scene on the tube/sd (a birdseye overview of a sprawling deep forest)
I think this has to have been intentional on the part of the creators(Lynch et al), to somehow point out the merits of the 'old way' of watching television, what is missed now in the digital age. When you can 'see all' right away etc., or think everything is just more and better...something goes missing, things become cheap....the pressure to 'have it all' expands like an enveloping forest which you cannot process, everything looks the same...always have 'been here before'......television and film is no longer an event that takes some time and attention, like going to the grocery, its just like picking up some cheap stuff from a convenience store that can be repeated anytime(24 hours convenience)
I'd say that we saw the 'real' Philip Jeffries (although 'real' is a strange word for someone that has transformed to a coffee pot).
Ray mentioned the Dutchman, without knowing where or what that was, so Coop went there.
If it was the real Jeffries, I'd love to know what happened between him disappearing and ending up in the convenience store in that teapot thing 🙂
That's a whole other series I'd imagine!
Ive watched this part again earlier and noticed something about the Jeffries scene: to the right of the 'teapot'/bell that emits the circle of smoke/steam there is an opening or passage to another room that is directly behind the teapot/bell. The real Jeffries could have been in this room and controlling the teapot/bell and talking from back there.
Another thing to note: this opening is much easier to see if Twin Peaks is watched on an old 'tube/sd tv', it is very clear....In fact, the entire convenience store scene is much better looking on an tube/sd tv in general, on the HD tv a large portion of the visual are blacked out, with some scenes missing altogether. For example: right after Mr. C disappears above the stairs, on the HD tv all I saw was black, but when I checked it on the tube/sd TV there is an entire completely clear scene of a deep forest that is completely absent in HD. Much more can be seen clearly on the tube/sd tv including when Mr. C is walking through the basement with the woodsmen and the forest appears on both sides; and this scene was very distinct and impressive visually on the tube/sd tv while on the HD tv all you can really see is black and barely make out the trees and deep forest encroaching on the sides.... This is not the only time something like this has happened, there are blacked out scenes during Andy's vision in the lodge with the fireman that can only be scene on a tube/sd tv(showing electricity lines and more of the red curtains right before Laura with the angels), and also after the Janey E/Dougie sex scene the black on the HD shows a hidden scene on the tube/sd (a birdseye overview of a sprawling deep forest)
I think this has to have been intentional on the part of the creators(Lynch et al), to somehow point out the merits of the 'old way' of watching television, what is missed now in the digital age. When you can 'see all' right away etc., or think everything is just more and better...something goes missing, things become cheap....the pressure to 'have it all' expands like an enveloping forest which you cannot process, everything looks the same...always have 'been here before'......television and film is no longer an event that takes some time and attention, like going to the grocery, its just like picking up some cheap stuff from a convenience store that can be repeated anytime(24 hours convenience)
Sorry if this is crude, but if lynch intentionally made the show better to view on an sd tv, f him and his nonsense.
Sorry if this is crude, but if lynch intentionally made the show better to view on an sd tv, f him and his nonsense.
Ive check it again and confirmed it(unless my HD television setting are wildly wrong, even though it always looks fine): On an HD television all that you see is a black space/opening to the right of the teapot/bell, while on an sd/tube television you see clearly an archway/opening and you see the other room back there, its back wall, so there is definitely a room(seems like a control room) directly behind the teapot/bell machine......the real Jeffries could be back there controlling that machine
One more thing, on the sd/tube version of the scene, the lighting is much brighter, less black, more definition in general....and on the bottom right of the Jeffries/machine scene, there is a row of flashing white bars that can be seen very clearly on the tube/sd tv, they seem to be in the same rhythm of Jeffries' voice...although I dont have much more on the import/meaning of this so far
That entire convenience store scene is far better, imo, on an sd/tube tv, looks much much nicer there imo.... Whatever is said about it, its definitely an interesting way to hide a clue, seeing as how only a few people who still have a tube tv that functions would be able to see it...seeing more with less (like Andy with the 'only cheese' sandwich gets taken to the lodge(him and Lucy stuck to the old ways and believe in the log and log lady's ability, unlike the new Chad, and lucy does not know about cell phones, etc., it fits in here); or the approach of airing only one episode a week, which imo is great...
Sorry if this is crude, but if lynch intentionally made the show better to view on an sd tv, f him and his nonsense.
Ive check it again and confirmed it(unless my HD television setting are wildly wrong, even though it always looks fine): On an HD television all that you see is a black space/opening to the right of the teapot/bell, while on an sd/tube television you see clearly an archway/opening and you see the other room back there, its back wall, so there is definitely a room(seems like a control room) directly behind the teapot/bell machine......the real Jeffries could be back there controlling that machine
That entire convenience store scene is far better, imo, on an sd/tube tv, looks much much nicer there imo.... Whatever is said about it, its definitely an interesting way to hide a clue, seeing as how only a few people who still have a tube tv that functions would be able to see it...seeing more with less (like Andy with the 'only cheese' sandwich gets taken to the lodge(him and Lucy stuck to the old ways and believe in the log and log lady's ability, unlike the new Chad, and lucy does not know about cell phones, etc., it fits in here); or the approach of airing only one episode a week, which imo is great...
Lucy saw right through Chad when he told her to just 'enjoy the beautiful day', she was able to disconnect from the course of events('the beautiful day') and find the 'man behind the statement', suspect Chad and keep an eye on him. Furthermore, Lucy does not know about 'cellular phones' because of her job as an 'old style' receptionist which served as an older version of something like a network point that took calls; but now with cellular phones that digital network, that machine is everywhere, running seemingly by itself, autonomously, taking over space and time. Now, Lucy comes from a time when this digital network was not so omnipresent, she does not merely 'enjoy the beautiful day' it provides when it takes over space and time, but had the 'disconnect', the thinking and questioning of what it all is...allowing her to spot Chad, and see other things that people miss when they are caught in the autonomous momentum of the digital authority. Thus, Lucy can see the 'man behind the statement', or the 'man behind the machine', only with the tube/sd tv(not smart/connected, outside of the digital boss-network) from this time outside of the omniprescent machine-boss(puts you to work for it, was not around during first twin peaks) of the digital network, the time of tube tvs, can one see the 'man behind the machine'(the control room behind the Jeffries teapot-machine), the bosses who claim the digital network, control its content, use it for certain purposes or ideas, and collecting the money from time spent by people who simply need it to communicate or live their lives...like some kind of vampire with no productive activity leeching of the lives and efforts of others, just claiming it for themselves...
Lucy can see this 'man behind the machine', that it is not simply a neutral medium, that the digital network has people behind it, controlling it, skewing it this way and that, leeching off of it; that its not simply some kind of neutral fair machine to help people in the way it is utilized today, but there are real people behind it that are claiming ownership mainly for their own interests and controlling the thought and communication produced in and from that network for their own interests, its like someone walking into a coffee shop and saying, now I own this, you will talk about this and this and this, since this is what I am going to show you, and I am recording everything. Something like a digital communications network is by its nature something public, for it to be privately owned and regulated is a travesty (especially when brain and body are included, as is already happening, but already people need this network for everyday life) if the people behind it and its use are not properly regulated under the laws of freedom-rationality, but are on a wild quest for profit or power like Mr. C or Jeffries at the expense of everyone else, then they need to be arrested like Chad for telling people to 'just enjoy the beautiful day' while giving you only the letters they want seen...
I'd say that we saw the 'real' Philip Jeffries (although 'real' is a strange word for someone that has transformed to a coffee pot).
Ray mentioned the Dutchman, without knowing where or what that was, so Coop went there.
If it was the real Jeffries, I'd love to know what happened between him disappearing and ending up in the convenience store in that teapot thing 🙂
That's a whole other series I'd imagine!
It could possibly just be how Jeffries can appear to Mr. C. in this dimensional pocket. It is probably of some semiotic import, to him, or to somebody, like some of the appearances in the purple room and the lodge--for example, Naido's eyes seem like a message as well as a condition. Maybe the "real" Jeffries still has David Bowie's face. Although I still like the notion that it's a diving bell--maybe it keeps him from getting the bends (he did seem on the verge of breaking down, or up, in Fire Walk With Me).
I'd say that we saw the 'real' Philip Jeffries (although 'real' is a strange word for someone that has transformed to a coffee pot).
Ray mentioned the Dutchman, without knowing where or what that was, so Coop went there.
If it was the real Jeffries, I'd love to know what happened between him disappearing and ending up in the convenience store in that teapot thing 🙂
That's a whole other series I'd imagine!
It could possibly just be how Jeffries can appear to Mr. C. in this dimensional pocket. It is probably of some semiotic import, to him, or to somebody, like some of the appearances in the purple room and the lodge--for example, Naido's eyes seem like a message as well as a condition. Maybe the "real" Jeffries still has David Bowie's face. Although I still like the notion that it's a diving bell--maybe it keeps him from getting the bends (he did seem on the verge of breaking down, or up, in Fire Walk With Me).
One last thing--we had a thing going about references to the Wizard of Oz, like the red shoes, the good/bad witches, Dorothy (played by JUDY GARLAND), etc. PJ in the bell is an awful lot like the Wizard of Oz hiding in his booth "behind the curtain."
One last thing--we had a thing going about references to the Wizard of Oz, like the red shoes, the good/bad witches, Dorothy (played by JUDY GARLAND), etc. PJ in the bell is an awful lot like the Wizard of Oz hiding in his booth "behind the curtain."
Yes, but could be even closer to the Wizard of Oz than Jeffries being in the bell, since there is an opening/passageway to another room to the right of the bell-machine, which shows a room directly behind the bell-machine room. Phillip Jeffries could just be in his regular physical shape sitting in that back room like in the Wizard of Oz and controlling the machine that Mr. C is interacting with...
Sorry if this is crude, but if lynch intentionally made the show better to view on an sd tv, f him and his nonsense.
Ive check it again and confirmed it(unless my HD television setting are wildly wrong, even though it always looks fine): On an HD television all that you see is a black space/opening to the right of the teapot/bell, while on an sd/tube television you see clearly an archway/opening and you see the other room back there, its back wall, so there is definitely a room(seems like a control room) directly behind the teapot/bell machine......the real Jeffries could be back there controlling that machine
One more thing, on the sd/tube version of the scene, the lighting is much brighter, less black, more definition in general....and on the bottom right of the Jeffries/machine scene, there is a row of flashing white bars that can be seen very clearly on the tube/sd tv, they seem to be in the same rhythm of Jeffries' voice...although I dont have much more on the import/meaning of this so far
That entire convenience store scene is far better, imo, on an sd/tube tv, looks much much nicer there imo.... Whatever is said about it, its definitely an interesting way to hide a clue, seeing as how only a few people who still have a tube tv that functions would be able to see it...seeing more with less (like Andy with the 'only cheese' sandwich gets taken to the lodge(him and Lucy stuck to the old ways and believe in the log and log lady's ability, unlike the new Chad, and lucy does not know about cell phones, etc., it fits in here); or the approach of airing only one episode a week, which imo is great...
OMG
What about the real Philip Gerard? We only saw him in the Red Room when he actually should be MIKE... But he is constantly credited as Philip Gerard also during episode 2 when this phone conversation took place. There wasn't any "voice of..." in the credits. And we didn't see him yet in the real world.
Fire walk with