I thought it was a great episode for all that's mentioned above. The opening scene was so joyful and ridiculous! I can't believe Ray let me down! Cooper/Dougie is showing new emotions and a little more independence. I was never a fan of James' singing or that song, but I had to laugh my ass off that so many people would be annoyed by it. Ed's quiet credits at the end were a sober turn from where we started last night. I don't think a show (all episodes) has ever made me feel so many things so strongly. I'm grateful for that.
Matthew,
I think all of us have elements of the return or original we didn't love. For me, the story was the Lucy love triangle. I also find that the creators and I have very different taste in music. To be kind, let me just say in the return I could do without any of the roadhouse music scenes.
What would you choose?
If you mean as far as music at the roadhouse, my answer would be none. I was never a fan of music videos or live music for that matter. I would rather have more scenes involving characters engrossed in the story line than lose 3 to 5 minutes an episode listen to music that for the most part I don't even like.
If you mean type of music, I am no fan of jazz or surrealism style music. To me, most (not all) of the music has lessened my enjoyment of the series. This might sound like a rant, but it's not. I can just say I would not take a free set of the music for the show if it was given to me.
But, I gotta be real... I don't really give two flips about Norma's RR Diner franchise. That scene was pure boredom for me. My spouse loved it. 🙂
That sequence eloquently raises/engages/illustrates many issues about film production and Lynch's career-long film-financing situation, quietly relates it to similar situations that many viewers face, and cues its impact on two incredibly endearing characters' unfulfilled romance, right?
Matthew,
I think all of us have elements of the return or original we didn't love. For me, the story was the Lucy love triangle. I also find that the creators and I have very different taste in music. To be kind, let me just say in the return I could do without any of the roadhouse music scenes.
What would you choose?
If you mean as far as music at the roadhouse, my answer would be none. I was never a fan of music videos or live music for that matter. I would rather have more scenes involving characters engrossed in the story line than lose 3 to 5 minutes an episode listen to music that for the most part I don't even like.
If you mean type of music, I am no fan of jazz or surrealism style music. To me, most (not all) of the music has lessened my enjoyment of the series. This might sound like a rant, but it's not. I can just say I would not take a free set of the music for the show if it was given to me.
What about the music (and soundscapes) that accompany the scenes? Even though I wouldn't (mostly) choose to listen to the kind of music (Badalamenti or other) used to create and reinforce mood, I think they do it very effectively. I loved getting Penderecki in Part 8 (and a bit in Part 11, I think). It's also been surprising how many scenes have had no background music or sounds at all, where I might have expected it, and that in itself has changed how the characters and the content are perceived in the new Twin Peaks.
I could live without the Roadhouse scenes but they seem to fit. I may have to run for cover but I will now admit I had never in my life heard (or even heard of - or at least not registered) "the" Nine Inch Nails. I actually really liked the inclusion of that whole song in Part 8.
Kllynched,
I recognize this is more of a "to each their own" type issue. With the exception of the lady singing (De Rey I think) the stage acts have not been my cup of tea.
I'd have to go back and listen to the background music from different scenes to give you examples. The only one that comes to mind is the music used during Mr. C's ride to Buella's place. The synthesizer style music used quite often in small elements (sorry can't describe better) are out of date that don't give me a feeling of nostalgia.
I find music in much of Lynch's works to be of a similar type of which he must enjoy himself. That is why I suggest we must have very different taste in music.
With apologies to the other thread participants for staying a bit off topic... actually, Charlie, I totally agree with you about Rebekah del Rio and the music accompanying Mr C's arrival. That was one of the absolutely best scenes for me, the music was the perfect accompaniment for the spooky night-time driving scene setting for his emergence from the car, which for me was utterly unexpected. I found it quite terrifying and burst out laughing at the same time. From then I was hooked!
Back (sort of) on topic, it's very entertaining to see the contrary/contradictory reactions to James's song today. Sometimes both at the same time, as in my case. I actually thought it was even worse than the first time round (A+ to James Marshall for taking it on!) and yet was so "right". The whole thing was totally hilarious (including crying woman...). The more so, because James' singing had been so much discussed and ridiculed on here by you folks - and his return predicted. I laughed so hard when it happened! I don't think I'd classify this as trolling, though it was a very entertaining attack on the famed "fourth wall".
For me, engaging in this "lively conversation" is an important part of what makes the whole experience of the Return so hugely different from Seasons 1 and 2.
But, I gotta be real... I don't really give two flips about Norma's RR Diner franchise. That scene was pure boredom for me. My spouse loved it. 🙂
That sequence eloquently raises/engages/illustrates many issues about film production and Lynch's career-long film-financing situation, quietly relates it to similar situations that many viewers face, and cues its impact on two incredibly endearing characters' unfulfilled romance, right?
I think the only real usefulness in that scene was to point out how Norma has not lost her penchant to make poor relationship decisions (not has Shelly or Becky- I think Heidi is the only woman connected in some way to the RR that is not an idiot about women). This dynamic reminded me of the S2 plotline involving Norma's mother's (WAS it her mother? Depends on whether the Frost book is canon in this area) relationship with the sleazebag con-man. This guy might be more CORPORATE sleazebag, but a CLEARLY bad idea nonetheless.
The soap-opera aspects of the show (Big Ed/Norma/Nadine, Lucy/Andy/DICK, maybe Becky/Steven) are pleasant enough diversions, but were no energy at all devoted to them, especially as we perceive it time to begin to close some important loops, I would not mind at all.
Poor Ed, though. One perceives that he will never stop looking out that window, waiting for Norma's car to pull up.
So my take is my emotions are being played well. Lynch and Frost no some of play the clue hunter and so the play with that, play with the pace. Put us on edge, lead us around. When I am frustrated I was made frustrated and the artists release it oh so slightly just enough that I come back. Every complaint I have seen I have shared and yet appreciate it. The sweeping scene in the roadhouse, near perfect as you keep waiting for something and then you get a drop of information. You think aha a clue, and that information has not been touched since. Sarah watching a loop going around in a room with a strange glow and you keep looking at the mirrors and the shadows expect a Bob, a horse, a woodsman and little do you know the loop change on the last repeat. Is it a clue or was the repetition meant to put you in a mood to have the scene change.
I am loving me no loving it in places. In totality Episode 8 has made me a fan of this. And unless they throw the whole idea out in the end. this will be something I share with possible grandchildren. The children are already indoctrinated.
This show is obsessed with fourth-walling the %&@# out of itself!
The conversations, theories, speculation etc on this forum are totally what's making this season for me! I can't even imagine what this show is going to be like for people picking this up after it has all aired.
Anyone who thinks Episode 13 was a dud needs taking to see a big dog.
Can we acknowledge that people have differing opinions, and not attack them for it, or call them out about it?
For what it's worth, I thought episode 13 was ok. Certainly liked it better than episode 12, but I'd rank it as middle-to-bottom-half of this season so far.
You have read - and translated - my sig line?
So you should know that you can take anything I say as a light-hearted dig at the worst. Don't be so defensive, even though you're so obviously wrong. 😉
But, I gotta be real... I don't really give two flips about Norma's RR Diner franchise. That scene was pure boredom for me. My spouse loved it. 🙂
That sequence eloquently raises/engages/illustrates many issues about film production and Lynch's career-long film-financing situation, quietly relates it to similar situations that many viewers face, and cues its impact on two incredibly endearing characters' unfulfilled romance, right?
I think the only real usefulness in that scene was to point out how Norma has not lost her penchant to make poor relationship decisions (not has Shelly or Becky- I think Heidi is the only woman connected in some way to the RR that is not an idiot about women). This dynamic reminded me of the S2 plotline involving Norma's mother's (WAS it her mother? Depends on whether the Frost book is canon in this area) relationship with the sleazebag con-man. This guy might be more CORPORATE sleazebag, but a CLEARLY bad idea nonetheless.
The soap-opera aspects of the show (Big Ed/Norma/Nadine, Lucy/Andy/DICK, maybe Becky/Steven) are pleasant enough diversions, but were no energy at all devoted to them, especially as we perceive it time to begin to close some important loops, I would not mind at all.
Poor Ed, though. One perceives that he will never stop looking out that window, waiting for Norma's car to pull up.
I am certain the scene with Norma is directly linked to the whole "How do we wake up Coop?" idea. He needs to get himself round the outside of Norma's damn fine coffee and cherry pie before he becomes whole again.
I loved this episode. Next week (is it future or is it past) Last week was kind of slow, but I've thought myself not to hate on things too quickly and try to see the bigger picture, and it totally paid off this week!
Re: Norma's pie, YES! They are referencing coffee and pie way too much. Whether it's to toy with fans' expectations that the right coffee & pie will bring Cooper back or if it's the actual deal, we can't know, but they already have my attention...
Again, though, I am someone who didn't really get into the original Twin Peaks. My spouse was a huge fan, so I've seen bits & pieces of it.
Hi Matthew,
My advice to you:
1. Drink heavily. (With apologies to Animal House.)
2. Immediately, instantly, and at once, watch the first two seasons of Twin Peaks, forthwith and posthaste.
You can thank me later. 😉
- /< /\ /> -
Right, Matthew. But (from my end) it is quite difficult to keep an open mind about damning faint praise when you're awestruck and cosmically grateful for the unlikely opportunity to watch TPTR.
Oh, definitely!
Ultimately, I'm enjoying the overall experience, but that doesn't mean I shut-off my critical faculties to it. People very rarely like something (or someone) 100%.
Again, though, I am someone who didn't really get into the original Twin Peaks. My spouse was a huge fan, so I've seen bits & pieces of it. When The Return started airing, I grudgingly agreed to watch it with him, and have been hooked ever since. It is just different enough in scope, production, story, etc. from the original show that I love it!
But, I gotta be real... I don't really give two flips about Norma's RR Diner franchise. That scene was pure boredom for me. My spouse loved it. 🙂
Matthew, I despise the "you just don't get it" crowd, but if you didn't watch seasons 1-2, there's a ton of stuff you're missing out on that's gonna fly right over your head.
This is definitely not a show to jump in on at season 3. Hopefully your spouse is filling you in as it goes along, but I'd imagine that wound be frustrating for you (and your spouse).
Only complaint was James' song, but somehow a part of me KNEW that was coming. Literally right before we put on the episode, I said to my wife:
"Can't be worse than last week (Episode 12). If James' and his gloved friend get up on stage to sing that stupid song, we'll know Lynch is telling us to stop watching and that he's trolling the world."
Then the song comes on.
You got that one right ! (then again, it's DL, he had to troll )
Fire walk with