I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process. A very intuitive and openminded process, not those types of calculation you indicate. What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them, aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest.
As Nicolas Cage said in Wild at Heart "The way your head works is God's own private mystery."
David Lynch of course works on pure intuition and sometimes serendipity while on set, I totally understand that, and we are DAMN fortunate to have such an amazing artist in our world. He likes to catch the big fish. I just wonder why the big fish in this case happens to be a Dale Cooper, episode after episode, trapped in a body, unable to respond to almost anyone or anything. It just seems so cruel to do, and that when he had this idea, he decided to go forward with it knowing that as time went on, people would be hoping Cooper comes out of it...and episode after episode, he doesn't. And then to throw in a 20 second clip of a baseball hitting him, yet we get 60 seconds with Carl Rodd, and 2 minutes of Ben and Frank, it just seems like it's a little cold.
I think nostalgia would have killed The world of Twin Peaks and I'm glad they didn't let it in. And I love Dougie. I once read Lynch favorite Song is 'Song To The Siren'(specifically the amazing Liz Fraser version). Well the lyrics of that songs makes me think a bit about Dougie. Maybe they will help you answer your questions and understand why Lynch took this path
Couldn't they have avoided nostalgia and still have been innovative with an awake and active Special Agent Dale Cooper helping out with the investigations? Or doing anything other than wearing a tie on his head, having a baseball thrown at him, drawing little ladders, and touching badges for 8 epsiodes?
I edited and added those beautiful lyrics in the latest post. I think Cooper is far away (but getting closer), and you just have to deal with it 😉
Have no choice but to deal with it 🙂
Yes! Because even if the story of this newborn man who gets esthatic so easily doesn't move you, you still have to recognize that in terms of the plot (25 years being stuck with a doppleganger enemy well alive planning your death ) the story isn't gratuitous
I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process. A very intuitive and openminded process, not those types of calculation you indicate. What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them, aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest.
As Nicolas Cage said in Wild at Heart "The way your head works is God's own private mystery."
David Lynch of course works on pure intuition and sometimes serendipity while on set, I totally understand that, and we are DAMN fortunate to have such an amazing artist in our world. He likes to catch the big fish. I just wonder why the big fish in this case happens to be a Dale Cooper, episode after episode, trapped in a body, unable to respond to almost anyone or anything. It just seems so cruel to do, and that when he had this idea, he decided to go forward with it knowing that as time went on, people would be hoping Cooper comes out of it...and episode after episode, he doesn't. And then to throw in a 20 second clip of a baseball hitting him, yet we get 60 seconds with Carl Rodd, and 2 minutes of Ben and Frank, it just seems like it's a little cold.
I think nostalgia would have killed The world of Twin Peaks and I'm glad they didn't let it in. And I love Dougie. I once read Lynch favorite Song is 'Song To The Siren'(specifically the amazing Liz Fraser version). Well the lyrics of that songs makes me think a bit about Dougie. Maybe they will help you answer your questions and understand why Lynch took this path
Couldn't they have avoided nostalgia and still have been innovative with an awake and active Special Agent Dale Cooper helping out with the investigations? Or doing anything other than wearing a tie on his head, having a baseball thrown at him, drawing little ladders, and touching badges for 8 epsiodes?
I edited and added those beautiful lyrics in the latest post. I think Cooper is far away (but getting closer), and you just have to deal with it 😉
Have no choice but to deal with it 🙂
Yes! Because even if the story of this newborn man who gets esthatic so easily doesn't move you, you still have to recognize that in terms of the plot (25 years being stuck with a doppleganger enemy well alive planning your death ) the story isn't gratuitous
I just wish it didn't take 8 to 14 episodes of an 18 episode series to tell this plot
I have no idea.....if DL has no idea we're in serious trouble......I suspect he does, though.
As much as I am enjoying watching Twin Peaks and am thankful that we are getting any kind of continuation of Twin Peaks at all (I think all Twin Peaks fans never expected any kind of continuation, let alone an 18 hour David Lynch directed, Lynch/Frost co-written series), there is one huge element that is missing.
So here is the biggest question I personally have about the series:
Why do you think that when David Lynch and Mark Frost decided to return to the world of Twin Peaks that they would decide to not have Kyle MacLachlan portray the Special Agent we all know and love and want to see? There were so many directions they could have had this series go, and knowing some fans waited over 25 years for this, why do you think they decided to have Cooper's character so minimalized?
(A) They are planning on a Season 4 where Cooper would figure prominently, so they wanted to build up to a Season 3 cliffhanger
(B) David Lynch purposely wanted to torture fans of Twin Peaks, even if Mark Frost would have preferred having a more active Cooper
(C) Mark Frost purposely wanted to torture fans of Twin Peaks, even if Mark Frost would have preferred having a more active Cooper
(D)They wanted to deviate from the expectations of what fans of the show wanted to see in order to be unpredicatable
(E) None of the above (please state your opinion)
I think it's an artistic decision. The original series thematized how the tragic death of a young woman was mourned by a tight-knit community. The new series generalizes this sort of tragedy from a particular time and place to a general condition shared my many-- we're all going to die eventually...thematizing death as the human condition, perhaps?
- Cooper's condition for Lynch's fan base forces them/us to experience a visceral loss. We watched others mourn Laura Palmer. Now we have to mourn the "loss" of someone as crucial to a wide network of people as Laura was to her community?
- The first 6(?) parts of The Return were each dedicated to a cast member who died since production.
- Audrey is not the same as she was 25 years ago, nor should she be, IMO. People change, some for the better, others for the worse. She's suffered unspeakably, like Laura before her.
- Cooper is not, in fact, "lost." His condition challenges us to recognize and understand his humanity differently, IMO. Kyle Machlachlan's performance (and Naomi Watt's ability to play off it) make for a poignant new dimension of the beloved Dale Cooper. Like losing someone to a debilitating illness that made them unfamiliar to you (e.g., stroke, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, countless others), Coopers' condition doesn't make him any less lovable (if we rise to meet the challenges hid condition presents, IMO).
- Time passes and time changes things. Entropy, decay, the inevitability of death. Some things remain recognizable or as we remembered them, others don't.
I think the new Dale Cooper is a more fascinating character than ever. But I understand that he's alienating for many people. I actually find the fact that many have been outspoken about how much they dislike him rather distressing (would people feel that way if it were a member of their family that had become unrecognizable?), but I respect other people's right to feel differently.
Thank you for a very well thought out and written response Badalamenti fan.
I totally get what you're saying, and it makes sense. My expectations for the series were totally unexpected, I really had no idea what we were going to see. And I am loving every moment of it, thankful to get 18 hours of not only Twin Peaks, but 18 hours more of David Lynch. I'm astonished that Showtime executives gave him the green light and carte blanche to do whatever he wanted.
I just miss Coop 🙁
They would've been fools to say, "NO, you do what WE want." David would've stayed away, and Showtime would've gone down in history as being the network that screwed up the return of TP.
Cooper is coming back ( we've seen promo video of him as regular Coop ), just it MAY not be until part 17 ( could be sooner, we have to WAIT & SEE ).
They would've been fools to say, "NO, you do what WE want." David would've stayed away, and Showtime would've gone down in history as being the network that screwed up the return of TP.
They almost did that with the financing...pretty dicey there for a few months
As I recall the bean-counters were the ones saying "no way" and the head guy at Showtime who had been away came back and had a nice meeting with D.L. and everything was worked out.
As others have said, making it a fan service nostalgia fest would have pleased some viewers but ultimately been an empty artistic endeavor. And really, if all we want is more of the same, we can see that on Blu-ray already.
Let's not also forget that we probably would have been watching DoppelDale for most of season 3 had the original not been cancelled.
As I recall the bean-counters were the ones saying "no way" and the head guy at Showtime who had been away came back and had a nice meeting with D.L. and everything was worked out.
He must have been away awhile...DL had to walk away!
Cooper is Lynch's Ace in The Hole....that hand is coming up.
I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process. A very intuitive and openminded process, not those types of calculation you indicate. What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them, aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest.
As Nicolas Cage said in Wild at Heart "The way your head works is God's own private mystery."
David Lynch of course works on pure intuition and sometimes serendipity while on set, I totally understand that, and we are DAMN fortunate to have such an amazing artist in our world. He likes to catch the big fish. I just wonder why the big fish in this case happens to be a Dale Cooper, episode after episode, trapped in a body, unable to respond to almost anyone or anything. It just seems so cruel to do, and that when he had this idea, he decided to go forward with it knowing that as time went on, people would be hoping Cooper comes out of it...and episode after episode, he doesn't. And then to throw in a 20 second clip of a baseball hitting him, yet we get 60 seconds with Carl Rodd, and 2 minutes of Ben and Frank, it just seems like it's a little cold.
I interpreted Coop and Sonny Jim playing catch as another thing that we can cross off the list of ways that Coop might wake. I thought to myself, "Nope. That didn't work either. Moving on . . ." It also served to remind me that the cherry pie, while drawing out a little bit of Dale at that specific point in time, had little effect on his condition over all. Not to mention, it was another scene that emphasized the father and son theme going on in the episode.
I also think that they're using Coop as a narrative device or function in several ways. There are flashes of the "old" Dale in one scene and then it's back to catatonic Coop in the next. Similarly, there are scenes that drive a narrative forward juxtaposed with what might be an introduction to new characters. Additionally, Dale Cooper was the "old" Dale Cooper in the Red Room. With that in mind, parts one and two introduced new elements but they also reintroduced/reacquainted the viewer with some of the old characters and the Twin Peaks World. By the end of part four there were so many seemingly scattered, disconnected and undeveloped subplots that I felt like the, by then, catatonic Coop. I think that is purposeful. As the series has moved on many of the subplots have been thread together, glimpses of the "old"atmosphere have surfaced and a teleology has unfolded: it's always been about the Lodges and their interdimensional influence on ours. Coop is a mirror to the narrative and the "old" Dale will manifest precisely when the narrative needs him to, IMO. I have previously predicted he will return with 3 or 4 parts remaining. The increased longing for his return that some viewers are feeling will, I suspect, make it that much more enjoyable when does. However, it will not bother me, personally, if he returns in the final scene. I'm enjoying the journey.
Perhaps this is not Cooper's story to tell, which is why he is not the focus of the series.
Then again, if he is the main focus of the series - by that, I mean his return - then David Lynch has played his cards absolutely right. He's gone for the route that he felt would tell the best return story. The entire series has been one long return.
I have no idea if he'll come back before the end of the series finale, or whether he will come back at all. I am confident that the chosen direction though was the right one. Not out of some weird faith for lynch, but simply because I have been enthralled with every episode so far.
I think it's interesting how many people have lost hope of SA Dale Cooper returning even when series 3 has been subtitled The Return (which I'm sure has many meanings).
6 episodes is a lot of time, it could be a whole series in the UK or Ireland, there are many threads to tie together but I've been getting a sense that this will be done. This last episode had many smaller scenes designed to remind us of all the seemingly disparate threads as well as the Twin Peaks sheriff's dept and Gordon and Albert independently having their attention drawn to Las Vegas.
I fall into the confident that Coop will return camp. But if he doesn't I will be prepared to mourn his loss, question what led him into the Red Room in the first place and see the first two series in a darker light. How did someone with boundless optimism, enthusiasm and with such a strong moral compass get torn down by the forces of the Black Lodge? This would arguably be a more interesting/impactful resolution but not one which would make me happy.
I think it's interesting how many people have lost hope of SA Dale Cooper returning even when series 3 has been subtitled The Return (which I'm sure has many meanings).
6 episodes is a lot of time, it could be a whole series in the UK or Ireland, there are many threads to tie together but I've been getting a sense that this will be done. This last episode had many smaller scenes designed to remind us of all the seemingly disparate threads as well as the Twin Peaks sheriff's dept and Gordon and Albert independently having their attention drawn to Las Vegas.
I fall into the confident that Coop will return camp. But if he doesn't I will be prepared to mourn his loss, question what led him into the Red Room in the first place and see the first two series in a darker light. How did someone with boundless optimism, enthusiasm and with such a strong moral compass get torn down by the forces of the Black Lodge? This would arguably be a more interesting/impactful resolution but not one which would make me happy.
Thanks for a very insightful post, Gary. I aim to respond to your post while commenting on the discussion , generally.
I've been at loose ends lately in this forum ... not on account of The Return but rather the outspoken rage/panic/smoldering anxiety circulating that suggests it would be unimaginable if Dale Cooper (or Audrey) never returned... I'm working to remind myself that everybody is entitled to respond/react how they wish. Yet....
... I can't seem to stop ruminating about what it is that separates my total comfort with however The Return plays out with the angst/anguish on display.
This is NOT intended to deny anybody else their own reaction. I just can't help but wonder whether folks have considered that many-- nay, nearly all-- of Lynch's films to date have depicted the utter destruction /suffering... of a charismatic but doomed character...
Good heavens-- Diane Selwyn's fate in Mulholland Drive alone should be reason enough, IMO, to anticipate Lynch making a gloomy or NOT self-consciously life-affirming story in The Return...
Lynch 's triumph IMO is how he represents trauma, suffering, mortality, sin and redemption poetically.... At root, it seems to me that that this is the realism that buttresses his surrealism... A wondrous surface concealing a mundane/universal reality of psychological distress deeper within/below....
Maybe I'm old and have buried too many loved ones... but after watching Fire Walk With Me tonight with friends, I feel like it's clearer to me than ever that Lynch makes films that draw poignant humanity out of unspeakable suffering...
... Aphasiac stroke victims may be almost 100% cognitively functional but impaired motorically, able to think complex thoughts but unable to articulate them... It may well be that the drama of Dougie Jones /Dale Cooper involves what we can't know about his inner life. The challenge with such a disability for those around the afflicted is to not let impaired communication outstrip the ability to relate/connect/interact. Dougie Dale is still able to do all of these things , with both Sonny Jim (light clapping game) and Janey-E (love tryst) and I wonder whether we, as viewers, might follow their lead...
Disability, decay and death are, IMO, major themes at work in The Return... yet many here treat Dale Cooper as if he' s only of value if he is portrayed as we remember him....
Hi Badalmenti Fan,
I think it is a sense of grief, loss or mourning which permeates and drives certain responses. The angst, anguish and discomfort comes from this. It's an emotional rather than a subjective response. For me I need an emotional connection to any sort of drama to make it interesting. It may well be that I am still in a denial phase but I see the most likely outcome as SA Dale Cooper returning to Twin Peaks. My curiosity is fixed on how this meandering tale will lead us to that point.
Being subjective, the resolution however doesn't have to make me happy to be effective. In fact as you touched on and I mentioned in my post, a more effective ending would involve Coop being lost (as we know him) forever. This would have a greater effect on how I viewed series 1, 2 & FWWM. It would have a greater impact on me on a personal level and yet it's not the ending that I crave. I want to see the redemption of Laura Palmer and the return of Coop.
It's odd isn't it, I'm in my early thirties and have buried both my parents already in almost Dickensian levels of tragedy. My mum when I was 20 (she was 40) from breast cancer, leaving my Dad to help me and raise my three sisters (all in their teens). My Dad then had a heart-attack and fell down the stairs (or perhaps the other way round no one can be sure) on my wedding day. After his heart stopped he wasn't revived quick enough and he was brain dead, he lay in a vegetative state for 2 weeks before he passed. I've known grief, I know I can cope with it, I know it has a deeper effect than any happy ending and yet emotionally I crave that happy ending.
Fire walk with