Why is David Lynch keeping Special Agent Dale Cooper from us?  

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 Jack
(@jack)
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As much as I am enjoying watching Twin Peaks and am thankful that we are getting any kind of continuation of Twin Peaks at all (I think all Twin Peaks fans never expected any kind of continuation, let alone an 18 hour David Lynch directed, Lynch/Frost co-written series), there is one huge element that is missing.

 

So here is the biggest question I personally have about the series:

 

Why do you think that when David Lynch and Mark Frost decided to return to the world of Twin Peaks that they would decide to not have Kyle MacLachlan portray the Special Agent we all know and love and want to see?  There were so many directions they could have had this series go, and knowing some fans waited over 25 years for this, why do you think they decided to have Cooper's character so minimalized?

(A) They are planning on a Season 4 where Cooper would figure prominently, so they wanted to build up to a Season 3 cliffhanger

(B) David Lynch purposely wanted to torture fans of Twin Peaks, even if Mark Frost would have preferred having a more active Cooper

(C) Mark Frost purposely wanted to torture fans of Twin Peaks, even if David Lynch would have preferred having a more active Cooper

(D)They wanted to deviate from the expectations of what fans of the show wanted to see in order to be unpredicatable

(E) None of the above (please state your opinion)

 

 

Quote
Posted : 02/08/2017 6:09 pm
(@matthew_gladney)
Roadhouse Regular

I think it's E.

Some folks involved in the entertainment industry (film, TV, music) seem to want to take into account what audiences want, sometimes because they genuinely want the audience to be happy, other times because they want to maximize profit, and giving a majority of the audience what it wants is a way to do that (keep 'em coming back for more).

David Lynch doesn't strike me as that type of creative person, nor do I believe that he and Frost really want to torture their audience (us), as that implies some sadism that I don't think they possess.

So, I think that this is the story that Lynch & Frost decided to tell, because they truly believe it is the best way to move the story of Twin Peaks forward. That may be a Pollyanna-ish view of things, but I believe it to be true.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 6:20 pm
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Jack

As much as I am enjoying watching Twin Peaks and am thankful that we are getting any kind of continuation of Twin Peaks at all (I think all Twin Peaks fans never expected any kind of continuation, let alone an 18 hour David Lynch directed, Lynch/Frost co-written series), there is one huge element that is missing.

 

So here is the biggest question I personally have about the series:

 

Why do you think that when David Lynch and Mark Frost decided to return to the world of Twin Peaks that they would decide to not have Kyle MacLachlan portray the Special Agent we all know and love and want to see?  There were so many directions they could have had this series go, and knowing some fans waited over 25 years for this, why do you think they decided to have Cooper's character so minimalized?

(A) They are planning on a Season 4 where Cooper would figure prominently, so they wanted to build up to a Season 3 cliffhanger

(B) David Lynch purposely wanted to torture fans of Twin Peaks, even if Mark Frost would have preferred having a more active Cooper

(C) Mark Frost purposely wanted to torture fans of Twin Peaks, even if Mark Frost would have preferred having a more active Cooper

(D)They wanted to deviate from the expectations of what fans of the show wanted to see in order to be unpredicatable

(E) None of the above (please state your opinion)

 

 

I think it's an artistic decision.  The original series thematized how the tragic death of a young woman was mourned by a tight-knit community.  The new series generalizes this sort of tragedy from a particular time and place to a general condition shared my many-- we're all going to die eventually...thematizing death as the human condition, perhaps?

- Cooper's condition for Lynch's fan base forces them/us to experience a visceral loss. We watched others mourn Laura Palmer. Now we have to mourn the "loss" of someone as crucial to a wide network of people as Laura was to her community?

-  The first 6(?) parts of The Return were each dedicated to a cast member who died since production.

-  Audrey is not the same as she was 25 years ago, nor should she be, IMO. People change,   some for the better, others for the worse.  She's suffered unspeakably, like Laura before her.

-  Cooper is not, in fact, "lost."  His condition challenges us to recognize and understand his humanity differently, IMO.  Kyle Machlachlan's performance (and Naomi Watt's ability to play off it) make for a poignant new dimension of the beloved Dale Cooper.  Like losing someone to a debilitating illness that made them unfamiliar to you (e.g., stroke, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, countless others), Coopers' condition doesn't make him any less lovable (if we rise to meet the challenges hid condition presents, IMO).

- Time passes and time changes things.  Entropy, decay, the inevitability of death. Some things remain recognizable or as we remembered them, others don't.

I think the new Dale Cooper is a more fascinating character than ever. But I understand that he's alienating for many people.  I actually find the fact that many have been outspoken about how much they dislike him rather distressing (would people feel that way if it were a member of their family that had become unrecognizable?), but I respect other people's right to feel differently.

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Posted : 02/08/2017 6:21 pm
 Jack
(@jack)
RR Diner Patron

Thanks for your reply Matthew.

I agree with you that this is the story Lynch and Frost decided to tell.  There are just so many ways this season could have gone.  I've loved all of it, I'm just so surprised that so many episodes have passed by and Cooper is still trapped.  After the episode of Cooper reacting to Ike the Spike's attack, most of here thought that that the following episode would snap him out of it.  Then it became the next.  And then the next.  Now most people on this forum have given up hope, and think it will either be the last episode or not at all.  So it's kind of sad in a way.

 

I'm personally hoping it's A!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 6:24 pm
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Jack

Thanks for your reply Matthew.

I agree with you that this is the story Lynch and Frost decided to tell.  There are just so many ways this season could have gone.  I've loved all of it, I'm just so surprised that so many episodes have passed by and Cooper is still trapped.  After the episode of Cooper reacting to Ike the Spike's attack, most of here thought that that the following episode would snap him out of it.  Then it became the next.  And then the next.  Now most people on this forum have given up hope, and think it will either be the last episode or not at all.  So it's kind of sad in a way.

 

I'm personally hoping it's A!

Sure thing.  If my hypothesis proves correct, then our sadness in mourning Cooper as we knew him was very much by design! But I feel you-- it presents a new dimension to TP tragedy, and this has proven tough for many to swallow.

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Posted : 02/08/2017 6:27 pm
(@silentbobni)
Roadhouse Regular

It's all because Kyle McLaughlin didn't laugh at the turnip joke during the initial read through so Lynch thought "Not laugh at my jokes eh? I'll have you shuffling around, repeating what other people say and I might let a small child hit you on the head with a baseball. Who's laughing now?" 

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Posted : 02/08/2017 6:28 pm
 Jack
(@jack)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Badalamenti Fan
Posted by: Jack

As much as I am enjoying watching Twin Peaks and am thankful that we are getting any kind of continuation of Twin Peaks at all (I think all Twin Peaks fans never expected any kind of continuation, let alone an 18 hour David Lynch directed, Lynch/Frost co-written series), there is one huge element that is missing.

 

So here is the biggest question I personally have about the series:

 

Why do you think that when David Lynch and Mark Frost decided to return to the world of Twin Peaks that they would decide to not have Kyle MacLachlan portray the Special Agent we all know and love and want to see?  There were so many directions they could have had this series go, and knowing some fans waited over 25 years for this, why do you think they decided to have Cooper's character so minimalized?

(A) They are planning on a Season 4 where Cooper would figure prominently, so they wanted to build up to a Season 3 cliffhanger

(B) David Lynch purposely wanted to torture fans of Twin Peaks, even if Mark Frost would have preferred having a more active Cooper

(C) Mark Frost purposely wanted to torture fans of Twin Peaks, even if Mark Frost would have preferred having a more active Cooper

(D)They wanted to deviate from the expectations of what fans of the show wanted to see in order to be unpredicatable

(E) None of the above (please state your opinion)

 

 

I think it's an artistic decision.  The original series thematized how the tragic death of a young woman was mourned by a tight-knit community.  The new series generalizes this sort of tragedy from a particular time and place to a general condition shared my many-- we're all going to die eventually...thematizing death as the human condition, perhaps?

- Cooper's condition for Lynch's fan base forces them/us to experience a visceral loss. We watched others mourn Laura Palmer. Now we have to mourn the "loss" of someone as crucial to a wide network of people as Laura was to her community?

-  The first 6(?) parts of The Return were each dedicated to a cast member who died since production.

-  Audrey is not the same as she was 25 years ago, nor should she be, IMO. People change,   some for the better, others for the worse.  She's suffered unspeakably, like Laura before her.

-  Cooper is not, in fact, "lost."  His condition challenges us to recognize and understand his humanity differently, IMO.  Kyle Machlachlan's performance (and Naomi Watt's ability to play off it) make for a poignant new dimension of the beloved Dale Cooper.  Like losing someone to a debilitating illness that made them unfamiliar to you (e.g., stroke, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, countless others), Coopers' condition doesn't make him any less lovable (if we rise to meet the challenges hid condition presents, IMO).

- Time passes and time changes things.  Entropy, decay, the inevitability of death. Some things remain recognizable or as we remembered them, others don't.

I think the new Dale Cooper is a more fascinating character than ever. But I understand that he's alienating for many people.  I actually find the fact that many have been outspoken about how much they dislike him rather distressing (would people feel that way if it were a member of their family that had become unrecognizable?), but I respect other people's right to feel differently.

Thank you for a very well thought out and written response Badalamenti fan.

I totally get what you're saying, and it makes sense.  My expectations for the series were totally unexpected, I really had no idea what we were going to see.  And I am loving every moment of it, thankful to get 18 hours of not only Twin Peaks, but 18 hours more of David Lynch.  I'm astonished that Showtime executives gave him the green light and carte blanche to do whatever he wanted.

 

I just miss Coop  🙁

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Posted : 02/08/2017 6:28 pm
 Jack
(@jack)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Sammy Weir

It's all because Kyle McLaughlin didn't laugh at the turnip joke during the initial read through so Lynch thought "Not laugh at my jokes eh? I'll have you shuffling around, repeating what other people say and I might let a small child hit you on the head with a baseball. Who's laughing now?" 

LOL!

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 6:29 pm
(@ezekielmoist)
RR Diner Patron

I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process.  A very intuitive and openminded process,  not those types of calculation you indicate.  What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them,  aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest. 

There's nothing quite like urinating out in the open air

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Posted : 02/08/2017 6:53 pm
 Jack
(@jack)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: ezekielmoist

I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process.  A very intuitive and openminded process,  not those types of calculation you indicate.  What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them,  aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest. 

As Nicolas Cage said in Wild at Heart "The way your head works is God's own private mystery."

David Lynch of course works on pure intuition and sometimes serendipity while on set, I totally understand that, and we are DAMN fortunate to have such an amazing artist in our world.  He likes to catch the big fish.  I just wonder why the big fish in this case happens to be a Dale Cooper, episode after episode, trapped in a body, unable to respond to almost anyone or anything.  It just seems so cruel to do, and that when he had this idea, he decided to go forward with it knowing that as time went on, people would be hoping Cooper comes out of it...and episode after episode, he doesn't.  And then to throw in a 20 second clip of a baseball hitting him, yet we get 60 seconds with Carl Rodd, and 2 minutes of Ben and Frank, it just seems like it's a little cold.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 6:59 pm
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Jack
Posted by: ezekielmoist

I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process.  A very intuitive and openminded process,  not those types of calculation you indicate.  What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them,  aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest. 

As Nicolas Cage said in Wild at Heart "The way your head works is God's own private mystery."

David Lynch of course works on pure intuition and sometimes serendipity while on set, I totally understand that, and we are DAMN fortunate to have such an amazing artist in our world.  He likes to catch the big fish.  I just wonder why the big fish in this case happens to be a Dale Cooper, episode after episode, trapped in a body, unable to respond to almost anyone or anything.  It just seems so cruel to do, and that when he had this idea, he decided to go forward with it knowing that as time went on, people would be hoping Cooper comes out of it...and episode after episode, he doesn't.  And then to throw in a 20 second clip of a baseball hitting him, yet we get 60 seconds with Carl Rodd, and 2 minutes of Ben and Frank, it just seems like it's a little cold.

It is totally cold!  But therein lies its poignancy!

Laura's body was cold when it washed ashore and all of this began...  

Her death was an unimaginable cruelty to Sara Palmer (witness part 12)...

So is life. And with life, death.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 7:02 pm
(@ezekielmoist)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Jack
Posted by: ezekielmoist

I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process.  A very intuitive and openminded process,  not those types of calculation you indicate.  What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them,  aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest. 

As Nicolas Cage said in Wild at Heart "The way your head works is God's own private mystery."

David Lynch of course works on pure intuition and sometimes serendipity while on set, I totally understand that, and we are DAMN fortunate to have such an amazing artist in our world.  He likes to catch the big fish.  I just wonder why the big fish in this case happens to be a Dale Cooper, episode after episode, trapped in a body, unable to respond to almost anyone or anything.  It just seems so cruel to do, and that when he had this idea, he decided to go forward with it knowing that as time went on, people would be hoping Cooper comes out of it...and episode after episode, he doesn't.  And then to throw in a 20 second clip of a baseball hitting him, yet we get 60 seconds with Carl Rodd, and 2 minutes of Ben and Frank, it just seems like it's a little cold.

I think nostalgia would have killed The world of Twin Peaks and I'm glad they didn't let it in. And I love Dougie.  I once read Lynch favorite Song is 'Song To The Siren'(specifically the amazing Liz Fraser version). Well the lyrics of that songs makes me think a bit about Dougie.  Maybe they will help you answer your questions and understand why Lynch took this path

Long afloat on shipless oceans
I did all my best to smile
'Til your singing eyes and fingers
Drew me loving to your isle

And you sang, "Sail to me, sail to me, let me enfold you"
Here I am, here I am waiting to hold you

Did I dream you dreamed about me?
Were you hare when I was fox?
Now my foolish boat is leaning 
Broken lovelorn on your rocks

For you sing, "Touch me not, touch me not, come back tomorrow"
Oh my heart, oh my heart shies from the sorrow

I'm as puzzled as a newborn child
I'm as troubled as the tide
Should I stand amid the breakers?
Or should I lie with death my bride?
Hear me sing, "Swim to me, swim to me, let me enfold you"
Oh my heart, oh my heart is waiting to hold you

 

 

There's nothing quite like urinating out in the open air

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Posted : 02/08/2017 7:25 pm
 Jack
(@jack)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: ezekielmoist
Posted by: Jack
Posted by: ezekielmoist

I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process.  A very intuitive and openminded process,  not those types of calculation you indicate.  What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them,  aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest. 

As Nicolas Cage said in Wild at Heart "The way your head works is God's own private mystery."

David Lynch of course works on pure intuition and sometimes serendipity while on set, I totally understand that, and we are DAMN fortunate to have such an amazing artist in our world.  He likes to catch the big fish.  I just wonder why the big fish in this case happens to be a Dale Cooper, episode after episode, trapped in a body, unable to respond to almost anyone or anything.  It just seems so cruel to do, and that when he had this idea, he decided to go forward with it knowing that as time went on, people would be hoping Cooper comes out of it...and episode after episode, he doesn't.  And then to throw in a 20 second clip of a baseball hitting him, yet we get 60 seconds with Carl Rodd, and 2 minutes of Ben and Frank, it just seems like it's a little cold.

I think nostalgia would have killed The world of Twin Peaks and I'm glad they didn't let it in. And I love Dougie.  I once read Lynch favorite Song is 'Song To The Siren'(specifically the amazing Liz Fraser version). Well the lyrics of that songs makes me think a bit about Dougie.  Maybe they will help you answer your questions and understand why Lynch took this path

 

 

Couldn't they have avoided nostalgia and still have been innovative with an awake and active Special Agent Dale Cooper helping out with the investigations?  Or doing anything other than wearing a tie on his head, having a baseball thrown at him, drawing little ladders, and touching badges for 8 epsiodes?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 7:27 pm
(@ezekielmoist)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Jack
Posted by: ezekielmoist
Posted by: Jack
Posted by: ezekielmoist

I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process.  A very intuitive and openminded process,  not those types of calculation you indicate.  What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them,  aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest. 

As Nicolas Cage said in Wild at Heart "The way your head works is God's own private mystery."

David Lynch of course works on pure intuition and sometimes serendipity while on set, I totally understand that, and we are DAMN fortunate to have such an amazing artist in our world.  He likes to catch the big fish.  I just wonder why the big fish in this case happens to be a Dale Cooper, episode after episode, trapped in a body, unable to respond to almost anyone or anything.  It just seems so cruel to do, and that when he had this idea, he decided to go forward with it knowing that as time went on, people would be hoping Cooper comes out of it...and episode after episode, he doesn't.  And then to throw in a 20 second clip of a baseball hitting him, yet we get 60 seconds with Carl Rodd, and 2 minutes of Ben and Frank, it just seems like it's a little cold.

I think nostalgia would have killed The world of Twin Peaks and I'm glad they didn't let it in. And I love Dougie.  I once read Lynch favorite Song is 'Song To The Siren'(specifically the amazing Liz Fraser version). Well the lyrics of that songs makes me think a bit about Dougie.  Maybe they will help you answer your questions and understand why Lynch took this path

 

 

Couldn't they have avoided nostalgia and still have been innovative with an awake and active Special Agent Dale Cooper helping out with the investigations?  Or doing anything other than wearing a tie on his head, having a baseball thrown at him, drawing little ladders, and touching badges for 8 epsiodes?

I edited and added those beautiful lyrics in the latest post.  I think Cooper is far away (but getting closer),  and you just have to deal with it 😉

 

There's nothing quite like urinating out in the open air

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 7:33 pm
 Jack
(@jack)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: ezekielmoist
Posted by: Jack
Posted by: ezekielmoist
Posted by: Jack
Posted by: ezekielmoist

I think a true artist just follows his creative flow with ideas. The example of the birth of BOB character is a good insight in Lynch's creative process.  A very intuitive and openminded process,  not those types of calculation you indicate.  What requires calculation is the way the pieces (ideas) are presented and put in the story... But the ideas, when Lynch is the one having them,  aren't coming from the perspectives you suggest. 

As Nicolas Cage said in Wild at Heart "The way your head works is God's own private mystery."

David Lynch of course works on pure intuition and sometimes serendipity while on set, I totally understand that, and we are DAMN fortunate to have such an amazing artist in our world.  He likes to catch the big fish.  I just wonder why the big fish in this case happens to be a Dale Cooper, episode after episode, trapped in a body, unable to respond to almost anyone or anything.  It just seems so cruel to do, and that when he had this idea, he decided to go forward with it knowing that as time went on, people would be hoping Cooper comes out of it...and episode after episode, he doesn't.  And then to throw in a 20 second clip of a baseball hitting him, yet we get 60 seconds with Carl Rodd, and 2 minutes of Ben and Frank, it just seems like it's a little cold.

I think nostalgia would have killed The world of Twin Peaks and I'm glad they didn't let it in. And I love Dougie.  I once read Lynch favorite Song is 'Song To The Siren'(specifically the amazing Liz Fraser version). Well the lyrics of that songs makes me think a bit about Dougie.  Maybe they will help you answer your questions and understand why Lynch took this path

 

 

Couldn't they have avoided nostalgia and still have been innovative with an awake and active Special Agent Dale Cooper helping out with the investigations?  Or doing anything other than wearing a tie on his head, having a baseball thrown at him, drawing little ladders, and touching badges for 8 epsiodes?

I edited and added those beautiful lyrics in the latest post.  I think Cooper is far away (but getting closer),  and you just have to deal with it 😉

 

Have no choice but to deal with it 🙂

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/08/2017 7:35 pm
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