I tend to have the opposite reaction, his cheesy special effects sometimes detract from my experience. I appreciate seeing people's opinions that like them, because at least he's appealing to some people with his effects.
I liked the vortex swirl visually and conceptually. I would not have expected it and not sure it was necessary (seeing as how he could have just faded into the room without all the drama), but it felt powerful to me. Also, I'm pretty sure after Gordon is pulled from it, the leaves of the trees rustling is sped up (or wind is blowing really fast), which is an interesting touch that adds to the weirdness.
Also, I don't think the red room is menacing per se. And for all we know, behind this illusory world of material things it could be present everywhere and anywhere. While it would not normally appear over a casino slot machine or in a coffee shop, if the spirits/magician Mike or the Evolved Arm are calling out to Dougie, I could easily see it showing up in the most mundane of places, whether it's a crack in the pavement, the carpet, etc.
I assume there's a psychic tether that Mike has on Dougie that allows him to enter into his consciousness (presumably with some effort and coordination else he'd probably do more than the periodic suggestion).
Maybe others could see it, Myn0k, but they'd be what we call crazy. You know, the people that walk around directing traffic or talking to themselves (at least in the era before bluetooth, cause even 'sane' people can now appear to be walking around talking to themselves). But not only is Dougie in tune with Mike, almost everyone else is totally oblivious. Which is maybe your point, that it's not replacing the "real" that everyone sees when it appeared, but only those that can "see" will notice it all. (Compare the view from Albert and others when Gordon's was viewing the vortex, the rest didn't see the vortex, just Gordon raising his arms to the sky).
Murat, I like your interpretation, that the observer's subjective perception of the event influences how it appears. Sometimes there appears to be no observer (like the scene with ??????? in Ep 8), so it's hard to tell how objective some of these scenese are. But back to cheesy stuff, a phonograph in an other dimension objectively seems ridiculous and I just don't like it (but if it were being subjectively experienced by an observer interpreting something as a phonograph I would have no problem with it).
Chris, like Caoimhin, I think Mike is more interested in getting back at BOB than he is about being helpful to Cooper. BOB and the Arm did something that Mike finds unforgiveable (which I assume is related to his removing the arm to no longer participate). BOB seems to have disregarded some of the rules of the game. When he gets his psychic hands on BOB, I think there will be a reckoning like in FWWM when he gets all his garmonbozia.
I had no problem with the vortex as I oddly enjoyed the perspective switch between what each character was observing.
What bothered me more was Hawk's map. Like, Hawk's just had this magic map, that is "always right" but clearly depicts local features in and around Twin Peaks, including strange, evil-forces and magical mystery spots. Come. The. Freak. On.
I love Hawk, but I loathe seeing him turned into some sort of mystical native stereotype.
It's not the first thought of this kind that i heard here or elsewhere. My question is: do you know Lynch art? Do you remember for instance the special effects on Wild At heart? If those ones aged well this will too!!!
Lynch's aesthetic is not supposed to match our level of credibility to reality or modern special effects habit of vision, it always had a kind of kitsch element in it.
But i sort of agree with you in terms of the imagination, in general, of this show. I think this new production went through lots of problems (The money problem we all know that was causing Lynch departure years ago. Also the deaths of many of the actors...etc). So yeah, it's not perfect and we can't expect it to be actually
As for the specific Red Room issue, it's true the sensational power of 25 years ago it's lost. But time has passed, the mystery about it has been unveiled since then. I think as a spectator my goal is to comprehend that there are new mysteries now and new visual places that we know very little about.
I was quite happy with the swirly sky vortex. I suppose it doesn't have the inventiveness of some of the Ep 8 scenes, but then I don't really get fussy about the quality of Fx, just use your imagination and get on with it.
I don't understand why the Red Room is being so helpful to Coop.
If we can take what was said by Mike in both the original series and FWWM, then it goes something like this:
- Mike and Bob used to be partners in crime (along with Mike's arm). Mike "saw the face of God" and changed. Bob didn't and doesn't want to change
- Bob, "stole the corn" that Mike had "canned away" the convenience store. Ostensibly this seems to be suggesting that Theresa Banks was Mike's victim to kill and absorb the garmonbozia of. But Bob killed her instead.
- Mike mentions that by doing so and pursuing Laura, that Bob is "breaking the thread".
- Now we get the 'waiting room' entities (Mike and the evolved tree-with-a-brain "arm") telling us that something is wrong. The "???????" also seems to suggest something is amiss in his house.
So, I don't know - something is out of balance because Bob is having too much fun?
.......these things are necessarily impossible to grasp based on the way thinking/language/physics-being function, if they were easily grasped there would be no excess or pain, no production of new knowledge, etc., we would just be autonomous computers running automatically, and know everything already, etc.
... (much like quantum flux in physics, where in sub-atomic reality there is nothing to grasp, just an inconsistent mess that is impossible to grasp) and this is represented by Lynch in splitting of the atom/reality and inscribing this non-reality that is impossible to grasp in everyday existence...This is unconscious(where psychoanalysis and physics coincide), there is an atomic split inside of everyone, a traumatic cut that is impossible to deal with, thus it is necessarily hidden and cannot be known, it is 'unconscious', coded in layers of language that appear as highly coded fantasy meant as defense mechanisms and reactions against, and dealing with, trauma the 'no stars' nothingness....
Hi Murat,
I bet you're a Buckminster Fuller fan, aren't you ? 😉
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I expect (possibly just because I like and enjoy it so much) Lynch tacky, mixed-media aesthetic/iconography (as opposed to the upper-end photo-realistic or even avant-garde) will age very well. It takes me right back to Eraserhead and Elephant Man (very dated, very "new"). I take this to be part of the charm, of a kind of sophisticated naivete that also appears in Lynch's treatment of things spiritual/mystical (supported by Frost's interest in conspiracy), film references, undermining of psychological and film conventional realism, and his engagement with the everyday (spectators at the hit and run, slot machine sequences, kids shooting guns). I don't think Lynch is into the "highly coded" (and appreciate that this seems like a strange comment).
Hi pynchjan,
I bet you're a Thomas Pynchon fan, aren't you ? 😉
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opinions my own.
Episode 11, the zone. C’mon, that spiral in the sky was typical of how poor this show can be at times. That was like some A-Level media studies student using After Effects
Hi lively,
It just occurred to me after reading your post, that, frankly, I don't even notice special effects when watching Lynch's work.
I'm too busy trying to figure out what the hell is going on on the surface level, not to mention, of course, the deeper symbolic, semiotic meaning of it all.
😉
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I agree that this episode definitely had some of the best tonal scenes so far, especially both the beginning segment with Becky and the horn honking patience tester outside the diner!
While I also don't have a problem with the portal, I see your criticism @theconversationislively, but I think the standard portal mechanics, when juxtaposed with the expertly crafted sound design and Lynch's physical reactions, proved to be visceral and effective.
My biggest issue with Part 11 was that horrendous music placement of the Elvis cover when Dougie was being driven to the desert. I have loved every single piece of music utilized so far in the Return, but this song had me yelling at the TV! I am willing to cede this criticism and will hopefully change my mind after the shock wears off during repeated viewings, but the tone of that music placement was awful and it took me out of the amazing world they have been building so far - especially when the camera work while the song was playing was so wonderful.
Also, I thought Jim Belushi was terrible in Part 10, but his performance in Part 11 has happily changed my mind. I am now on board with Jim Belushi!
that song was an odd fit to the series, but some of the lyrics in the segment they played seemed to touch upon some of the issues with respect to time that have been a recurring theme either in fan-talk or from the characters themselves.
How I wish that there were more
Than the twenty-four hours in the day
'cause even if there were forty more
I wouldn't sleep a minute away
Oh, there's black jack and poker and the roulette wheel
A fortune won and lost on ev'ry deal
I sort of agree with the OP but take pynchjan's point that some of it is "Deliberately tacky". There's always been this sort of approach in Lynch's stuff, for example, the totally rubbish animatronic bird at the end of Blue Velvet; in fact, the whole hokey, "American as Apple Pie" feeling to the end, after the Uber Noir feel of the rest of the movie.
Laura's apparition in the previous episode and some of the other FX throughout the show have been shoddy, and I have to think they must have been made that way deliberately, since there are plenty of others that are slick, polished, and due to their quality, almost invisible as FX.
I often have the feeling Lynch and Frost are using us to tell the story, as much as the on screen action is being used. Many artists claim their work is only half of it; the real statement, story or whatever happens with the interaction between their creation and the viewer. Maybe that's what's happening here; you're supposed to think it's tacky, amateurish, shoddy and so on. Sometimes, because of that, it becomes more jarring, and because of that, it has a bigger impact than a really slick, ultra realistic rendition.
Or maybe they're just taking the piss.
I agree entirely. Lynch is not interested in "high-quality" special effects, and the home-made quality of them is kind of a signature.
I was quite happy with the swirly sky vortex. I suppose it doesn't have the inventiveness of some of the Ep 8 scenes, but then I don't really get fussy about the quality of Fx, just use your imagination and get on with it.
I don't understand why the Red Room is being so helpful to Coop.
If we can take what was said by Mike in both the original series and FWWM, then it goes something like this:
- Mike and Bob used to be partners in crime (along with Mike's arm). Mike "saw the face of God" and changed. Bob didn't and doesn't want to change
- Bob, "stole the corn" that Mike had "canned away" the convenience store. Ostensibly this seems to be suggesting that Theresa Banks was Mike's victim to kill and absorb the garmonbozia of. But Bob killed her instead.
- Mike mentions that by doing so and pursuing Laura, that Bob is "breaking the thread".
- Now we get the 'waiting room' entities (Mike and the evolved tree-with-a-brain "arm") telling us that something is wrong. The "???????" also seems to suggest something is amiss in his house.
So, I don't know - something is out of balance because Bob is having too much fun?
Ah! Black corn / garmonbozia, I think this is a great connection!
I just want to add a reminder that my original post does not criticise the quality of the special effects, it's the lack of imagination at that point. I think the original TP has aged so well because of some of its pack of effects like that.
I just want to add a reminder that my original post does not criticise the quality of the special effects, it's the lack of imagination at that point. I think the original TP has aged so well because of some of its pack of effects like that.
We're all entitled to our opinion 🙂
My wife and I still disagree about the quality of effects when Josie turns into a door knob. I'm in the "it looks pants" camp 🙂
Hi pynchjan,
I bet you're a Thomas Pynchon fan, aren't you ? 😉
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You'd win that bet, RB, but the odds would be very low because its so obvious. I'm also a fan of Material's song Soul Killer. There are libraries in South Africa.
opinions my own.
...This was the kind of straight out of the box portal that you’d expect from crap like Stargate-SG1 or what ever formulaic tv sci-fi stuff circulates in the DVD bargain bin....
That pretty well describes why I loved that vortex, though I'm not anywhere close to being as harsh a critic about Stargate or other sci-fi shows.
To me, there's been a rather constant tongue-in-cheek, dark humor throughout all iterations of TP, with moments of straight-ahead drama being rare. The original series was largely a parody of soap operas, emphasized by Badalamenti's maudlin, sentimental underscoring. Leland's incredible death scene, the dramatic high point of the original, was one of those moments when poking fun at TV genres came to almost a complete stop - "almost," because it was still high pitched, "over the top" melodrama, but sincerely performed by everyone in the scene, Ray Wise in particular.
Continuing in this current season is a teasing tone, in my opinion, which is constantly trying to remind the audience not to take it all too seriously. So, comes the vortex, and it does feel like a scene out of conventional sci-fi TV shows. Smile. But there's also dramatic interest in the way it's done, looking like a swirling yin/yang symbol, for instance. But I think it is simultaneously advancing the story and being shown to us in a quirky, semi-humorous way.
One other thought, is that when the fascinating mysteries of TP become close to being explained, there's going to be an inevitable let down in some viewers who will react with an "oh - is that all there is to it?" For the murky mysteries to become solidified and nailed down, it's possibly disappointing, like not seeing the creature in a '50's monster movie until towards the end, and then being let down by the way it looks.
The vortex - I think it's another TP moment not intended to be taken completely seriously.
--P.S. It's long since been established that Mike can show up anywhere, with or without any Red Room imagery. In this season, he appeared several times in Dougie's home, and the Red Room appeared in the casino. I don't see how it's jarring for Mike and the room to appear at the pie shop.--
Fire walk with