I'm sure this has been discussed, but I haven't come across it yet. And it relates to the other topics of timelines and past/future.
If Laura is never found dead and instead goes missing, then Dale never enters portal at Glastonbury Grove right?
And if SA Cooper never enters the lodge, then doppel-Dale never leaves it and subsequently, Dougie and Tulpa-Diane are never "manufactured." And none of the events of Buckhorn or Vegas or ending showdown in TP ever occur. Right?
And all that is left is "Richard" and Carrie?
Is this correct?
Damn !
The name of your topic remembers me a french vinyl bootleg record of The Cure.
Take a look at the cover :
OMG how did I not know about this album. I was such a Cure fan BAAAAACK in the day.
I remember a friend playing me the cure song 'One Hundred Years' and gleefully introduced it by saying it had "some of the most depressing sounds in music ever!" Really, you should have heard the enthusiasm! ?
I'm sure this has been discussed, but I haven't come across it yet. And it relates to the other topics of timelines and past/future.
If Laura is never found dead and instead goes missing, then Dale never enters portal at Glastonbury Grove right?
And if SA Cooper never enters the lodge, then doppel-Dale never leaves it and subsequently, Dougie and Tulpa-Diane are never "manufactured." And none of the events of Buckhorn or Vegas or ending showdown in TP ever occur. Right?
And all that is left is "Richard" and Carrie?
Is this correct?
I believe Coop does enter Glastonbury Grove in the new version of events, but like most things Return-related, I can't prove it ? But here's my thinking:
In The Final Dossier, Coop still comes to town to investigate, only this time its Laura's disappearence and not murder. What do we know of the investigation? Nothing, but the Dossier suggests Coop didn't hang around long:
"After a while, with a complete lack of tips, leads, or sightings to move an investigation forward, the Laura Palmer story began to fade. Within a month it had gone cold; another “missing person” story with no clear resolution. As mentioned, I did find a few stories in the Post about Agent Cooper coming to town to investigate Laura’s disappearance—there are not many details to speak of, and he didn’t stay long—and nothing much beyond that."
If he didn't stay long, where did he go? Surely he's back in Philly? But look at the consequences of Laura's disappearence: same end result, different method. Leiland still dies, but he shoots himseof a year later. Coop still comes to town; I believe, somehow, he ended up Glastonbury Grove. It's just the way he ended up there will have been different. Its all different but the same. Time finds a way to arrive at the same results; you can run to a different dimension but you'll still hear Sarah calling your name and you'll still scream.
This may go some way to explaining why we see the scenario of Coop and Mike and Cooo and the evolution of the arm at least two times each. Perhaps the last time, in part 18, is the version where Coop ended up in the waiting room/black lodge after Laura's disapearence, whereas in Part one and two we were still seeing the version of events following Laura's murder.
Hmmm, I just don't know.
I suppose in some way it has to be one of those classic tautologies where in order to change the past you have to know to change it. So Cooper has to go through all his stuff and hang out in the waiting room and Fireman's house and wherever for 25 years because he has to know to go back and change it all.
But he is sooooo changed in the Odessa version of reality.
I don't know. I just don't know.
What if bringing Carrie to TP is actually what sets off the Laura Palmer story somehow.... Argh! This gives me a headache!
BTW, I am still fascinated at the name "Carrie Page." That can't be random.
I'd have to look at the book again to be sure just what is and what isn't there, I suppose, because I thought the FD straight up confirmed that Cooper still disappeared after coming to town, and thus presumed he still went in at GG. Isn't it in trying to look into Cooper's disappearance that Tammy comes upon this new version of events?
OK, I guess that wouldn't be definitive, either.
These posts are soaring.
I just thought, even if we Get It, if we piece the whole thing together, coherently; we haven't even really started yet have we? We'll know what happened to 'them', but what does that mean for 'us'? What is the parable? What is the cautionary of the tale?
And then depending on where that lesson lies for any one of us, does that go and change how we interpret what happened to 'them'?
I was trying to make this pattern with wood. it's elusive. seems fitting.
OMG how did I not know about this album. I was such a Cure fan BAAAAACK in the day.
Oh this it a bootleg album, very hard to find in France in the early 80's and so much more harder in the US.
The date on the cover is wrong, it's a 1979 gig in Amsterdam broadcasted on the FM.
You can listen to the complete show here :
I remember a friend playing me the cure song 'One Hundred Years' and gleefully introduced it by saying it had "some of the most depressing sounds in music ever!" Really, you should have heard the enthusiasm! ?
Yes it was. This is the beginning of the first verse.
It doesn't matter if we all die
Ambition in the back of a black car
More depressing music was Joy Division.
This a song about girls like Laura Palmer.
(don't miss Ian Curtis, the singer, "dancing" at the end) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD2SfQJOK08
Lyrics : https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/joydivision/sheslostcontrol.html
Ian Curtis hanged himself 8 months after this video.
OMG how did I not know about this album. I was such a Cure fan BAAAAACK in the day.
Oh this it a bootleg album, very hard to find in France in the early 80's and so much more harder in the US.
The date on the cover is wrong, it's a 1979 gig in Amsterdam broadcasted on the FM.
You can listen to the complete show here :
Man, Robert Smith looks so friggin' young there. I didn't get into the Cure until college. Got a chance to see them during the Bloodflowers tour - still one of the top shows I've ever seen by any group but RS was . . . comically overweight by that point.
I have wondered: if Coop went back and still entered GG, maybe this is the version that Gordon Cole remembers when he gives that massive data dump in E17- i.e., that the plan that Briggs and Coop made to find Judy is in the version of the timeline where Laura didn't die, and Coop enters the Grove not to find Annie, but specifically to find Judy.
I remember a friend playing me the cure song 'One Hundred Years' and gleefully introduced it by saying it had "some of the most depressing sounds in music ever!" Really, you should have heard the enthusiasm! ?
Yes it was. This is the beginning of the first verse.
It doesn't matter if we all die
Ambition in the back of a black carMore depressing music was Joy Division.
This a song about girls like Laura Palmer.
(don't miss Ian Curtis, the singer, "dancing" at the end) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD2SfQJOK08
Lyrics : https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/joydivision/sheslostcontrol.html
Ian Curtis hanged himself 8 months after this video.
Yeah, I'm a big Joy Division fan but its not something I could listen to all the time, especially 'Closer.' I actually live in Manchester and it is eerie how, if you drive through certain parts of the city at night, the music seems to chime with its surroundings.
I have wondered: if Coop went back and still entered GG, maybe this is the version that Gordon Cole remembers when he gives that massive data dump in E17- i.e., that the plan that Briggs and Coop made to find Judy is in the version of the timeline where Laura didn't die, and Coop enters the Grove not to find Annie, but specifically to find Judy.
See, that makes sense to me. But the way its framed in the Dossier suggests that the awareness of Laura's disappearence, rather than murder, takes place after Coop appeared at the station in part 17 and tried to go back in time to save Laura. So the Gordon retcon moment, being slightly earlier, would still be part of the original timeline. I assume that what occurs up to part 17 is the original timeline because Hawk refers to Laura being dead in part 7 when talking to Frank Truman.
I have wondered: if Coop went back and still entered GG, maybe this is the version that Gordon Cole remembers when he gives that massive data dump in E17- i.e., that the plan that Briggs and Coop made to find Judy is in the version of the timeline where Laura didn't die, and Coop enters the Grove not to find Annie, but specifically to find Judy.
See, that makes sense to me. But the way its framed in the Dossier suggests that the awareness of Laura's disappearence, rather than murder, takes place after Coop appeared at the station in part 17 and tried to go back in time to save Laura. So the Gordon retcon moment, being slightly earlier, would still be part of the original timeline. I assume that what occurs up to part 17 is the original timeline because Hawk refers to Laura being dead in part 7 when talking to Frank Truman.
Yeah (head hurts) but that presumes that everything we are seeing up until that point is in the original timeline. It might be we are seeing multiple timelines (or, even, timelines that are being actively disrupted). Not saying that's what's going on - just a working theory/hypothesis/pulling stuff outta the butt. . .
Fire walk with