Hi - and this one....
Ha. This is probably old news to the more observant viewers, but I guess we're supposed to think the clock in the Twin Peaks Sheriff's station stopped at the same time Cooper checked out of the hospital in Las Vegas? They're in the same time zone, so 2:53=2:53. Any point in asking why that is, or just Lynch being Lynch?
There is a reference to Lucy and Andy here, and the role they played in setting up that entire scene. Also, earlier in episode 10, Lucy told Chad, who was trying to trick her and steal the mail at the time, that her and Andy had 'stopped time' before........
I have not quite worked this all out yet, but its related to completion and its impossibility, the irreducible negativity of Judy, etc....also related to when Lucy, who is very intellectual, was talking about how she does not know what happens with the thermostat(a measurement tool just like the clocks are with time) when 'no one is around'(negative, Judy, there is no dreamer, etc.)
I took it that Coop and the Mitchums took an entire day to get there (plus probably one night's sleep). Cooper woke up on 10/1 at 2:53 and arrived at Twin Peaks on 10/2 with events culminating there again at 2:53. They had to drive to the LV airport, fly to Spokane, arriving at night most likely. Probably got a room and then drove to TP the next day.
Maybe: I didn't think of that because I assumed Coop was on a mission and wouldn't want to waste a moment. But you inspired me to check, and the Mitchum brothers are wearing the same clothes in the Sheriff's Station as they were when they met Coop in the casino. (Obviously you wouldn't be able to tell anything from Coop's suit or the "Andie" girls' outfits. 😉 )
I mean, I guess it's just possible nobody bothered to pack, but I feel like in that case the Mitchums would just send the Andies to the nearest menswear store to buy them a few grand worth of Armanis on the spot. But who knows.
Hi - and this one....
Ha. This is probably old news to the more observant viewers, but I guess we're supposed to think the clock in the Twin Peaks Sheriff's station stopped at the same time Cooper checked out of the hospital in Las Vegas? They're in the same time zone, so 2:53=2:53. Any point in asking why that is, or just Lynch being Lynch?
There is a reference to Lucy and Andy here, and the role they played in setting up that entire scene. Also, earlier in episode 10, Lucy told Chad, who was trying to trick her and steal the mail at the time, that her and Andy had 'stopped time' before........
I have not quite worked this all out yet, but its related to completion and its impossibility, the irreducible negativity of Judy, etc....also related to when Lucy, who is very intellectual, was talking about how she does not know what happens with the thermostat(a measurement tool just like the clocks are with time) when 'no one is around'(negative, Judy, there is no dreamer, etc.)
Good food for thought - thanks for giving me some stuff to look for on my rewatch, which I just started. Already I'm noticing/understanding about ten times more than I did the first time. Which is not saying much, since the first couple of episodes looked like one big abstract art project the first time. It's actually sort of amazing how much sense it all makes now.
Also 2,3,5 are the first three prime numbers...if that is interesting to anyone 🙂 Followed by 7!
Also 2,3,5 are the first three prime numbers...if that is interesting to anyone 🙂 Followed by 7!
Yes, just as the electrical pole we see several times is 3 (which seems to have its own significance), and 2,4,6, 8,10.
Also 2,3,5 are the first three prime numbers...if that is interesting to anyone 🙂 Followed by 7!
Yes, just as the electrical pole we see several times is 3 (which seems to have its own significance), and 2,4,6, 8,10.
Nice point, since 2,4,6, etc. are about completion, also 10, something like a 'closed circle, or looking for rest in life', BOB's modus operandi of fully possessing Laura, life. Then we see when these three '6 poles' appear, its at times when the life breaks down and is shown to not be a closed circle, but broken into zero, life revealed in its slow decay, brutality, evil, 666: Carl Rodd was looking to enjoy nature, life, looked at the kid and the mother, etc.; and then he saw the kid get hit by the car, and got the new fire when the life is revealed to be not fit for basic decency, thus he went on to make his trailer park community with the new fire, rather than being upset as he was with Mickey when he was still looking moreso towards the default authority, the closed circle, 666, life/government, taking them as guaranteed or good, etc., they are revealed as 666, and he cannot rely on them anymore. We have the pole in Odessa outside Laura's home as well, when Cooper has seen what life, closed circle, government, etc. has led Laura in her life, getting harassed by 'truck drivers' at that diner, slow decay in Odessa life, not fit for her dreams, her 'homecoming picture', things are not right, Cooper gets the negative energy to take her back to Twin Peaks. Also, this was Laura's problem, she was 'calling out for help' and the community was deaf to it, which is why she became so bitter, how they can live and ignore such injustice, then think life is going to turn out well, etc., and this was the same point Bobby made at Laura's funeral, probably the only time anyone really listened to Laura....until Cooper now finally took her back to the 'scene of the crime', and can no longer content himself that Twin Peaks(town and story) will have a happy ending that will be done so he can enjoy coffee, donuts, etc. only, like Dougie, since this happy ending was shown to result in 'Odessa life', 'world of truck drivers', etc.....
These poles are about changing energy, the 6's reveal the 'default life'/state/nature/government, etc. to be unfit, cruel, ignorant, barbarous; thus when Carl Rodd walks up to the mother and the boy, we see a BOB-like figure standing in a shadow next to a car, this is one way he could have gone....with the closed, dividable numbers, the numbers of completion, closed circle, everyone is put in their place, truck drivers rule, tyranny takes over, BOB's modus operandi.... Revealing this 'sleepwalking' of trusting default nature/life without any negative/Judy(all is perfectly divided, etc.), not thinking, no freedom allowed(no one cares to listen to Laura's 'cries for help', no one cares about fixing the problem, denying her the conditions of freedom/dreams, etc.), then tyranny takes over which tells you the completion(Laura lives in Odessa life) while the tyrant racks up the 'jackpots'(billionaire, truck drivers, 'jack rabbits palace', criminal mafia etc.). Judy's diner and the 6 pole, then finally revealing this approach as not fit, changing the energy with a negative(like Jeffries in the motel talking to Cooper and MIKE), there is a negative, a Judy, an antagonism with default life/nature/'state of things' that Carl Rodd chooses(the flame of negative antagonistic energy with the world, Judy), and chooses this over the BOB path, which prefers the 'completion' even numbers and to 'go with the flow', follow the 'momentum' of nature, enjoy it, as it slowly decays into chaos with trying to complete the impossible quest of fully possessing something inexistent, something radically negative that is not a positive fact, the freedom of Judy which organizes itself out of the madness that Cooper experienced at the end of season 2 when his world was shattered.
Finally we have lucky seven, not an even number but the gamble, and the 'finale formula' is 430, even, prime, seven, gamble = 0, negative/Judy nothing, negating the default setup life/nature, the default momentum of natures slow and blind decay into death, its blind laws which deal out destruction without any care, no way allowed to fix it, no ethical stance or thinking allowed, no dreams, they upset the 'natural life' of BOB ruling over 'sleepwalkers' ( this is Laura's situation) etc......completion is not properly done until it 'meets Judy/negative/0' confronts this and then cannot content itself in coffee(Cooper's cup is empty at Judy's diner, etc.), and Douglas firs alone, gambling and its going to work out, as Dougie does, etc; and always around the corner is 0/Judy/negative, nature is not self sustaining, it is split by voids and vortexes, so that 'sleep walking', Dougie's modus operandi, etc., always leads back to violence, what happened to Laura proliferates, Odessa life takes over, slow decay, etc....no way to avoid or destroy Judy/negative/death, the 0, no gamble that pays off with a jackpot will ever be successful/complete, no matter how much BOB or billionaire gets, it will never be able to destroy or possess Judy/negative/inexistence......, thus the 'seven heaven' always leads back to 0, Judy/negative, in 'viva las vegas' fortunes are always 'won and lost'.....
253 adding up to 10, 10 is the number of completion
No disrespect to you, Greg, but this numerology aspect is utter gibberish. Why 253? Why not 262 or 451 or, well thousands of combinations of numbers that add up to 10. Umberto Eco, very entertainingly, killed all this nonsense off in Foucault's Pendulum.
By the way I have a maths degree so I have a closed mind to this sort of thing.
253 adding up to 10, 10 is the number of completion
No disrespect to you, Greg, but this numerology aspect is utter gibberish. Why 253? Why not 262 or 451 or, well thousands of combinations of numbers that add up to 10. Umberto Eco, very entertainingly, killed all this nonsense off in Foucault's Pendulum.
I am taking them more as 'clues', and still dont think that 'numerology' is some kind of guaranteed mystical truth, or whatever....but it remains that these 'number clues' were present throughout the entire series, from the first scene with 430....and again I think there is ways to criticize 'numerology' within Twin Peaks itself, following the outcome of the 'number clues', that 7 leads to 0, etc., to nothing/inexistence of numerology as ultimate bearer of truth, etc. The ones who 'really believe' in the numerology here is shown by the idea of 'completion': 666, BOB, billionaire, the default flow of life(Twin Peaks sleepwalking, 'Odessa life', etc.), or Dougie's gamble/seven heaven 'happy ending', all of which are torn apart in 18 and reopening the mystery....
Also 2,3,5 are the first three prime numbers...if that is interesting to anyone 🙂 Followed by 7!
Yes, just as the electrical pole we see several times is 3 (which seems to have its own significance), and 2,4,6, 8,10.
I still love this thread as I think it is very relevant and maybe explains a few long-standing things about telegraph poles, electricity and OWLs...
http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/twin-peaks-part-17-part-18/the-owls-are-not-what-they-seem-2/
Also 2,3,5 are the first three prime numbers...if that is interesting to anyone 🙂 Followed by 7!
Yes, just as the electrical pole we see several times is 3 (which seems to have its own significance), and 2,4,6, 8,10.
Nice point, since 2,4,6, etc. are about completion, also 10, something like a 'closed circle, or looking for rest in life', BOB's modus operandi of fully possessing Laura, life. Then we see when these three '6 poles' appear, its at times when the life breaks down and is shown to not be a closed circle, but broken into zero, life revealed in its slow decay, brutality, evil, 666: Carl Rodd was looking to enjoy nature, life, looked at the kid and the mother, etc.; and then he saw the kid get hit by the car, and got the new fire when the life is revealed to be not fit for basic decency, thus he went on to make his trailer park community with the new fire, rather than being upset as he was with Mickey when he was still looking moreso towards the default authority, the closed circle, 666, life/government, taking them as guaranteed or good, etc., they are revealed as 666, and he cannot rely on them anymore. We have the pole in Odessa outside Laura's home as well, when Cooper has seen what life, closed circle, government, etc. has led Laura in her life, getting harassed by 'truck drivers' at that diner, slow decay in Odessa life, not fit for her dreams, her 'homecoming picture', things are not right, Cooper gets the negative energy to take her back to Twin Peaks. Also, this was Laura's problem, she was 'calling out for help' and the community was deaf to it, which is why she became so bitter, how they can live and ignore such injustice, then think life is going to turn out well, etc., and this was the same point Bobby made at Laura's funeral, probably the only time anyone really listened to Laura....until Cooper now finally took her back to the 'scene of the crime', and can no longer content himself that Twin Peaks(town and story) will have a happy ending that will be done so he can enjoy coffee, donuts, etc. only, like Dougie, since this happy ending was shown to result in 'Odessa life', 'world of truck drivers', etc.....
These poles are about changing energy, the 6's reveal the 'default life'/state/nature/government, etc. to be unfit, cruel, ignorant, barbarous; thus when Carl Rodd walks up to the mother and the boy, we see a BOB-like figure standing in a shadow next to a car, this is one way he could have gone....with the closed, dividable numbers, the numbers of completion, closed circle, everyone is put in their place, truck drivers rule, tyranny takes over, BOB's modus operandi.... Revealing this 'sleepwalking' of trusting default nature/life without any negative/Judy(all is perfectly divided, etc.), not thinking, no freedom allowed(no one cares to listen to Laura's 'cries for help', no one cares about fixing the problem, denying her the conditions of freedom/dreams, etc.), then tyranny takes over which tells you the completion(Laura lives in Odessa life) while the tyrant racks up the 'jackpots'(billionaire, truck drivers, 'jack rabbits palace', criminal mafia etc.). Judy's diner and the 6 pole, then finally revealing this approach as not fit, changing the energy with a negative(like Jeffries in the motel talking to Cooper and MIKE), there is a negative, a Judy, an antagonism with default life/nature/'state of things' that Carl Rodd chooses(the flame of negative antagonistic energy with the world, Judy), and chooses this over the BOB path, which prefers the 'completion' even numbers and to 'go with the flow', follow the 'momentum' of nature, enjoy it, as it slowly decays into chaos with trying to complete the impossible quest of fully possessing something inexistent, something radically negative that is not a positive fact, the freedom of Judy which organizes itself out of the madness that Cooper experienced at the end of season 2 when his world was shattered.
Finally we have lucky seven, not an even number but the gamble, and the 'finale formula' is 430, even, prime, seven, gamble = 0, negative/Judy nothing, negating the default setup life/nature, the default momentum of natures slow and blind decay into death, its blind laws which deal out destruction without any care, no way allowed to fix it, no ethical stance or thinking allowed, no dreams, they upset the 'natural life' of BOB ruling over 'sleepwalkers' ( this is Laura's situation) etc......completion is not properly done until it 'meets Judy/negative/0' confronts this and then cannot content itself in coffee(Cooper's cup is empty at Judy's diner, etc.), and Douglas firs alone, gambling and its going to work out, as Dougie does, etc; and always around the corner is 0/Judy/negative, nature is not self sustaining, it is split by voids and vortexes, so that 'sleep walking', Dougie's modus operandi, etc., always leads back to violence, what happened to Laura proliferates, Odessa life takes over, slow decay, etc....no way to avoid or destroy Judy/negative/death, the 0, no gamble that pays off with a jackpot will ever be successful/complete, no matter how much BOB or billionaire gets, it will never be able to destroy or possess Judy/negative/inexistence......, thus the 'seven heaven' always leads back to 0, Judy/negative, in 'viva las vegas' fortunes are always 'won and lost'.....
Brilliant! This gives me a lot to ponder.
My general feeling is that 10 is the number of completion because it is simultaneously unity and nothingness, while also (as Mtstery Pakhandam pointed out) the end of the unit decimal sequence. I'm also with CooperThumbs that the fact that these are primes might be important - for the final fight, for example, they could symbolize indivisible groups coming together to fight for good during the completion (and the fact that the first three primes add up to 10 is a nice coincidence (I guess - I'm no prime number theoretician)). What's less clear to me is why 253, rather than 235. If people have seen the other thread on the film "Laura", and its influence, I'd point out that "Laura" ends with a clock fractured with the cracks at ~2:35, so it would be a nice link, but it's not 2:53. I quite like Thomas Goodnow's theory that it's 25 years to series 3, but it seems like there might be more to the sequence than even that.
There is a new thread started about Laura's time of death (if she did die) - check it out on the new thread. It was between midnight and 4am...so could be 2.53am 🙂
There is a new thread started about Laura's time of death (if she did die) - check it out on the new thread. It was between midnight and 4am...so could be 2.53am 🙂
Yep - I saw that! Thanks.
There is a new thread started about Laura's time of death (if she did die) - check it out on the new thread. It was between midnight and 4am...so could be 2.53am 🙂
Also, this fits with the idea that 'Laura is the one', where the return reaches 'completion'. We saw Andy go to the white lodge at 2:53 as well, where his vision and 'fire'/energy/cause, etc., was beginning with the death of Laura, then woodsmen, Laura's dreams with angels, etc., the whole antagonism of Twin Peaks there. Then the problem here as shown by 'Richard and Linda' in the 'convenience motel', is that if you try to take completion as something that hides this antagonism(the damaged girl(Naido) magically becomes a new Diane who is ignoring the rape, everything happy, etc.), if you attempt this, then you are 'far away', just ignoring the entire negative/Judy impact of 'Laura as the one'; and further, this does not work, it comes back in that motel room for both 'Richard and Linda', also for Carrie Paige in Odessa(killed man a la Sarah Palmer, hates Odessa, 'truck drivers' in the diner, etc.). Thus 'completion' and 'Laura is the one', brings us back to 'extreme negativity'/Judy, 430: the gamble(7) that was supposed to lead to 'completion' as 'seven heaven' is the evil, leads back to the 'convenience motel' of Richard and Linda. Thus Cooper has to enter 'Judy's Diner', go back to negativity and the core antagonism of Twin Peaks, the 'zero-point' of Twin Peaks, the murder of Laura Palmer and what this revealed about life not fit for dreams, community/love destroyed, etc., the pain involved in this, etc. 'Laura is the One', the 'completion', ends up in 0 Judy/negativity, the antagonism, and rightfully so.....now we have returned to Twin Peaks, not resting in 'viva las vegas'.....
Also, the 'Laura is the one' is not just 'completion', but has the double meaning of 'Laura is the one' related to dreams/love, etc., that Laura is the one special girl etc., true love....and after seeing what happened to her, which was basically ignored and thereby endorsed by the town(as Bobby pointed out at Laura's funeral), what impact did this have on dreams, Cooper's dreams, the dreams of people in Twin Peaks, etc.....hiding from Judy/negativity, or trying to destroy it does not work here, thus Judy/negativity is the only way to 'return' to Twin Peaks, and is not the enemy.....Cooper and the world were trying 'to destroy' Judy for the 25 years in between, thus the 'sleepwalking', the 'world of truck drivers', Mr. C's wild quest to find and destroy Judy/negativity, and Dougie trying to ignore Judy as if it did not exist and everything is fine.... Judy/negativity is not the enemy, but necessary to return to Twin Peaks, what the proper impact of 'Laura is the one' is can only be here, not in the 'bright positivity' of 'viva las vegas' with Cooper playing mafia with the Mitchums and everything magically works out....
Maybe the real reason the world in part 18 feels so off is because Coop accidentally helped create a world that no longer relies on a base 10 system. 😛
Fire walk with