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(@kim_frostlind)
Dweller
Posted by: Oyster Bells
Posted by: Karen

"as an example: if you read "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" and couple it with what we see/know about the Palmers, it's never completely clear how much of that tragedy is on BOB and/or how much BOB was latching onto something terrible that already existed in Leland's mind"

  Original show info. was that Bob entered Leland as a boy ( Leland said yes when Bob asked ). At one point Mike says that Bob has been in TP "some 40 years now" I think is the line. While there have never been complete answers about how Bob operates, it seems from what was shown of Bob controlling Leland, there were times when Bob was not in control, maybe re-charging energy to control him. One obvious moment would be when he sees Laura with Ronette through the window at the motel ( FWWM ), not knowing Laura was friends with Teresa Banks, and takes off. 

Wait, I remember there was a plot thread from original show that wasn't explored further.  Something about an old house where Bob used to live or something?  I think the address was investigated, but they only found neighbors saying something I can't remember.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

My memory is, well not great. I have watched it twice this year but it's still fuzzy. Anyway, some old neighbour told Hawk that someone had lived there years ago, and the name was Robertson. And when Hawk said that, Cooper concluded that the name Robert came from that and that that was what the letters under fingernails was spelling out.
Someone else can probably correct me or deliberate further.

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Posted : 20/06/2017 5:53 am
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Karen

A house where Leland remembered staying as a boy, he saw the "have you seen this man" poster and recognized the face, came & told Harry & Coop about it. Hawk investigates out there, but didn't come away with anything really useful. 

Ah that's it, thanks, Karen.

Yeah, I was wishing they'd explore that further....

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 5:56 am
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Kim Frostlind
Posted by: Oyster Bells
Posted by: Karen

"as an example: if you read "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" and couple it with what we see/know about the Palmers, it's never completely clear how much of that tragedy is on BOB and/or how much BOB was latching onto something terrible that already existed in Leland's mind"

  Original show info. was that Bob entered Leland as a boy ( Leland said yes when Bob asked ). At one point Mike says that Bob has been in TP "some 40 years now" I think is the line. While there have never been complete answers about how Bob operates, it seems from what was shown of Bob controlling Leland, there were times when Bob was not in control, maybe re-charging energy to control him. One obvious moment would be when he sees Laura with Ronette through the window at the motel ( FWWM ), not knowing Laura was friends with Teresa Banks, and takes off. 

Wait, I remember there was a plot thread from original show that wasn't explored further.  Something about an old house where Bob used to live or something?  I think the address was investigated, but they only found neighbors saying something I can't remember.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

My memory is, well not great. I have watched it twice this year but it's still fuzzy. Anyway, some old neighbour told Hawk that someone had lived there years ago, and the name was Robertson. And when Hawk said that, Cooper concluded that the name Robert came from that and that that was what the letters under fingernails was spelling out.
Someone else can probably correct me or deliberate further.

Awesome, thanks Kim.

Yes, I remember now there was a name, so there was a person, but it wasn't investigated further.  Like an idea they discarded and changed their mind mid-season.

I hate that.

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 6:05 am
(@haxan_l_morningstar)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Karen

  Original show info. was that Bob entered Leland as a boy ( Leland said yes when Bob asked ). At one point Mike says that Bob has been in TP "some 40 years now" I think is the line. While there have never been complete answers about how Bob operates, it seems from what was shown of Bob controlling Leland, there were times when Bob was not in control, maybe re-charging energy to control him. One obvious moment would be when he sees Laura with Ronette through the window at the motel ( FWWM ), not knowing Laura was friends with Teresa Banks, and takes off. 

Oh, of course, what you just wrote IS the literal interpretation - I merely meant that (even just going by FWWM alone, without even getting into the ancillary material) there's a lot of room to argue that BOB was enhancing and enabling something deep, dark and terrifying that already existed in Leland's mind (the original show even goes in how BOB could be "the evil that men do"). 

I have the fury of my own momentum

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Posted : 20/06/2017 6:06 am
(@karen_paynter)
Deputy

( original TP )

Cooper: Where do you come from?

Giant: The question is, where have you gone?

Fire Walk With Me

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Posted : 20/06/2017 6:09 am
(@haxan_l_morningstar)
RR Diner Patron

Care to elaborate? 😛

I have the fury of my own momentum

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Posted : 20/06/2017 6:14 am
(@karen_paynter)
Deputy

"original show even goes in how BOB could be "the evil that men do" "

Later Cooper goes into the Black Lodge, and so we know that place, Bob, etc. is REAL ( as Laura told Harold ).

Fire Walk With Me

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Posted : 20/06/2017 6:15 am
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Häxan L. MorningStar

@Oyster Bells: I see your point - I kind of anticipated it, actually, because it used to be my point as well, and that's the reason why I referenced H. P. Lovecraft.

Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos (or his "Yog-Sothothery", as H.P.L. used to call it) were rooted in the idea of Ancient Gods and Eldritch Abomination that "came from the stars" ('aliens') but now dwells "under the seas" ('monsters'), can possess or influence people (like 'demons' or 'spirits') and that exist on a plane of reality that can only be accessed through dreams (not unlike certain Lodges we are familiar with). Another central idea, in H.P.L., is the existence of a "forbidden knowledge" (deeply connected with these Ancient Gods and Eldritch Abominations) that, if accessed or even glimpsed at, inevitably leads the human mind to utter madness.

Once you keep this in mind, it's not hard to see how the "stars" work as a metaphor for a form of intellect that goes beyond what a 'normal human' can (or should) experience and how the "seas" are a metaphor for the subconscious, effectively making this creatures 'aliens' AND 'demons' AND 'manifestations of the deepest corner of the human psyche' at the same time. (You can check Tv Tropes 'Twin Peaks' page for an examination of just how much of TP is 'Lovecraft Country').

 

So, back to TP, I always used this interpretation to avoid (or, rather, to "explain away") the... pesky references to UFO and "little grey men" that started surfacing midway through season 2 - as I said, I'm with you in not caring one bit for spaceship and greys and all that jazz. 

 

Also, TSHoTP may or may not be exactly 'canon' (although this is Twin Peaks, not freakin' Star Wars so - thankfully - 'canon' is not as defined a concept, here, as it is in LucasFilm's flag-bearer) so you are pretty much free to read/interpret the whole thing however suits you best : -)

 

Thank you.  ?

I never got into the whole Lovecraft thing, but that kinda sounds like Scientology's god myth, don't you think?

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 6:20 am
(@haxan_l_morningstar)
RR Diner Patron

@Karen: Indeed -  the fact that the place is real doesn't contradict the interpretation of BOB as some sort of 'psychical demon' that latches on people's worst inclinations. Actually, MIKE almost flat out state this, when he's talking about how he and BOB formed a 'perfect circle' (or something to that effect).

 

I have the fury of my own momentum

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Posted : 20/06/2017 6:24 am
(@karen_paynter)
Deputy

'psychical demon' 

OK, that language is better than "the evil that men do" which does not really suggest a demon.

Fire Walk With Me

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Posted : 20/06/2017 6:30 am
(@haxan_l_morningstar)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Oyster Bells
 

I never got into the whole Lovecraft thing, but that kinda sounds like Scientology's god myth, don't you think?

Oh, no : -) if it sounds like that, it's only because I really boiled it down to avoid making a very long post about something that's only tangentially related. But, going full OT for a moment: Scientology is a nut-case religion, Lovecraft was basically an atheist who created a mythological pantheon for his horror stories, but never tried to sell it as something real (he mostly joked about it with his friends). The only idea in common is the existence of "Ancient Gods" that predates our world - but that idea has been around for centuries before both H. P. Lovecraft and L. Ron Hubbard (the founder of Scientology).

I have the fury of my own momentum

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Posted : 20/06/2017 6:31 am
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Karen

'psychical demon' 

OK, that language is better than "the evil that men do" which does not really suggest a demon.

Yeah, "the evil that men do" just makes it obsolete - like saying we're all born with Bob inside us.

Hmm, "psychic demon"....  That's like the Shadow King from the X-Men.  ?  It does turn ppl evil.

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 6:39 am
Karen liked
(@haxan_l_morningstar)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Karen

'psychical demon' 

OK, that language is better than "the evil that men do" which does not really suggest a demon.

 

Karen 'daemon' is a manifestation of some kind (generally of a force, a spirit, an intention and so on). That said, once again: please, stop acting like the 'Resident Twin Peaks Authority', will you? I don't understand why other people's interpretations are so threatening, to you, but we are discussing, here: you don't get to say "what's right", "what's wrong", "what's ok" and what is better/worse than what else. Really, you don't : -) 

I have the fury of my own momentum

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Posted : 20/06/2017 6:41 am
(@karen_paynter)
Deputy

I just essentially said it was vague language. Demon is not. 

"threaten me" - it doesn't. I'm entitled to discuss it & from many viewings of the show & film I remember more & notice more than some. I am JUST as entitled to my views as YOU are. YOU are the one making it personal again.

Fire Walk With Me

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 7:01 am
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular

Ay ayy!  Hug it out noww....

?

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 7:07 am
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