Glassbox monster update  

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(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular

http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Experiment_Model

Twin Peaks Wikia has an entry that wasn't there around the time the 1st ep aired.

So according to Mark Frost's novel, in Nixon era another glass box was built at Hampton Air Base.

The monster is officially called the "Experiment Model."

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

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Posted : 19/06/2017 4:04 pm
(@samstanley)
Lodger

There's nothing official about the Twin Peaks Wikia.  I wouldn't put too much stock into it.

"Give Sam Stanley the glad hand."

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Posted : 19/06/2017 4:07 pm
Karen liked
(@haxan_l_morningstar)
RR Diner Patron

[I'm posting this reply here as well, in case the Admin decides to delete your other post in Part 6]

I'd say there's a bit of leap, on the wikia author(s) side. Or rather: yes, the description in TSHoTP and the appearance of the creature in the NYC glass box share some similiraties. However, that wikia entries seems to assume that it's the same individual and - unless I'm missing something official (wikia is fan-edited) - there simply isn't enough information to assume as much.

Actually, there even discrepancies, details and rumor that could lead someone to conclude that TSHoTP isn't "canon" or, at least, not entirely.

I could be wrong, of course, but - to me - it feels like whoever wrote that entry is trying (most likey, with the best intentions) to force his/her own interpretation on something that, as of right now, is pretty much open-ended.

 

EDIT: also, crosspost with samstanley

I have the fury of my own momentum

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Posted : 19/06/2017 4:14 pm
ella liked
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Häxan L. MorningStar

[I'm posting this reply here as well, in case the Admin decides to delete your other post in Part 6]

I'd say there's a bit of leap, on the wikia author(s) side. Or rather: yes, the description in TSHoTP and the appearance of the creature in the NYC glass box share some similiraties. However, that wikia entries seems to assume that it's the same individual and - unless I'm missing something official (wikia is fan-edited) - there simply isn't enough information to assume as much.

Actually, there even discrepancies, details and rumor that could lead someone to conclude that TSHoTP isn't "canon" or, at least, not entirely.

I could be wrong, of course, but - to me - it feels like whoever wrote that entry is trying (most likey, with the best intentions) to force his/her own interpretation on something that, as of right now, is pretty much open-ended.

 

EDIT: also, crosspost with samstanley

Actually, Häxan, would you mind telling me more about the Nixon monster and why the glass box was built there?  I'm very intrigued about that, because Twin Peaks so far seems to show interdimensional spirits instead of government monster experiments.

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/06/2017 4:55 pm
 dude
(@dude)
Dweller

I believe the "Nixon monster" was supposed to be an alien ... as in UFO, Roswell, little grey men with big eyes.  

 

On a side note: I think that's what the playing card picture Doppelcoop showed to Darya is.  I think that image is supposed to be an "alien."

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Posted : 19/06/2017 5:18 pm
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: dude

I believe the "Nixon monster" was supposed to be an alien ... as in UFO, Roswell, little grey men with big eyes.  

 

On a side note: I think that's what the playing card picture Doppelcoop showed to Darya is.  I think that image is supposed to be an "alien."

Weird.  So a spirit is trying to get to an alien.  Cross-genre.

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/06/2017 5:36 pm
(@haxan_l_morningstar)
RR Diner Patron

If you are interested in this aspect of Twin Peaks backstory I would strongly recommend you read the book, or listen to the audiobook or both: the book itself it's a great collection of (very well crafted) faux-document and is fascinating even just for that, while the audiobook features a rich cast of voice actors, including some actor from the show. I think you can still get the audiobook from free from Audible (not sure though).

 

With that said, let's get into SPOILERS FOR THE SECRET HISTORY OF TWIN PEAKS.

 

 

 

While the dossier leaves ample room for interpretation, it's strongly hinted that both yours AND dude's interpretation are correct: the "aliens" are interdimensional/cosmic entities rather than 'just' "little grey men with big eyes". 

 

I'll also add that, if you put this togheter with other information we have from TP lore, you could assume that these interdimensional beings are somewhat deeply tied to the human psyche (as an example: if you read "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" and couple it with what we see/know about the Palmers, it's never completely clear how much of that tragedy is on BOB and/or how much BOB was latching onto something terrible that already existed in Leland's mind).

Basically - and this is just the way I choose to "read" this - the creatures from the Lodge are (or "may be" or "may be connected to") interdimensional spirits/cosmic alien entities (a là Lovecraft)/psychical daemons (or "manifestations"). 

I have the fury of my own momentum

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Posted : 20/06/2017 3:40 am
Kim Frostlind, Oyster Bells, Ash Neuro and 1 people liked
(@karen_paynter)
Deputy

Basically the book isn't "canon", asked about it David Lynch said that's solely Mark Frost's vision of the TP world, and he hasn't read it. They co-wrote the script and at least an idea or two from the book made it in  ( character of Tamara Preston being one ).

  Description of original TP ep. about info. from Briggs on Windom, which reveals the real reason he was in Twin Peaks: 
 Major Briggs has the Book House Boys going through Project Blue Book Files. The Major then tells Cooper and Harry that Earle was among the best among the men at Project Blue Book. But when the Air Force started turning their attention away from space and towards  the forest surrounding Twin Peaks, Earle became obsessed, and started acting crazy, until he was removed from the project. Briggs found old footage from the archives, where Earle starts going on about ancient wizards called the Dugpas, who cultivated evil for the sake of evil, and who accessed that power from a tangible place, a place called the Black Lodge.

Fire Walk With Me

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Posted : 20/06/2017 4:18 am
(@karen_paynter)
Deputy

"as an example: if you read "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" and couple it with what we see/know about the Palmers, it's never completely clear how much of that tragedy is on BOB and/or how much BOB was latching onto something terrible that already existed in Leland's mind"

  Original show info. was that Bob entered Leland as a boy ( Leland said yes when Bob asked ). At one point Mike says that Bob has been in TP "some 40 years now" I think is the line. While there have never been complete answers about how Bob operates, it seems from what was shown of Bob controlling Leland, there were times when Bob was not in control, maybe re-charging energy to control him. One obvious moment would be when he sees Laura with Ronette through the window at the motel ( FWWM ), not knowing Laura was friends with Teresa Banks, and takes off. 

Fire Walk With Me

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 4:53 am
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Häxan L. MorningStar

If you are interested in this aspect of Twin Peaks backstory I would strongly recommend you read the book, or listen to the audiobook or both: the book itself it's a great collection of (very well crafted) faux-document and is fascinating even just for that, while the audiobook features a rich cast of voice actors, including some actor from the show. I think you can still get the audiobook from free from Audible (not sure though).

 

With that said, let's get into SPOILERS FOR THE SECRET HISTORY OF TWIN PEAKS.

 

 

 

While the dossier leaves ample room for interpretation, it's strongly hinted that both yours AND dude's interpretation are correct: the "aliens" are interdimensional/cosmic entities rather than 'just' "little grey men with big eyes". 

 

I'll also add that, if you put this togheter with other information we have from TP lore, you could assume that these interdimensional beings are somewhat deeply tied to the human psyche (as an example: if you read "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" and couple it with what we see/know about the Palmers, it's never completely clear how much of that tragedy is on BOB and/or how much BOB was latching onto something terrible that already existed in Leland's mind).

Basically - and this is just the way I choose to "read" this - the creatures from the Lodge are (or "may be" or "may be connected to") interdimensional spirits/cosmic alien entities (a là Lovecraft)/psychical daemons (or "manifestations"). 

Thanks, Häxan.

It's just that when I hear alien and extraterrestrial, I think creatures from another planet/outer space.  I think spirits from another dimension are different, and they evoke different emotions too in us (compare an alien invasion story vs. demonic possession story).  There's just something about evil spirits that frighten  you in a way no alien can, I think.  You don't get goosebumps from aliens.

I've read somewhere that Bob and Mike came from entire planet of creamed corn.  This idea might've been discarded because Lynch likes his plot secret (just like the idea that Harry saved Coop from the Lodge by driving backwards through a corn field was discarded for seas3).

I don't think I'd like them mashing up those spirits with planets and outer space.  Say, if in ep12 DoppelDale finds a hidden spaceship and takes off to his home planet of creamed corn, I'll stop watching the show.  I think spirits from another dimension are not aliens from another planet, and they should be kept separate.

 

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 5:25 am
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Karen

"as an example: if you read "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" and couple it with what we see/know about the Palmers, it's never completely clear how much of that tragedy is on BOB and/or how much BOB was latching onto something terrible that already existed in Leland's mind"

  Original show info. was that Bob entered Leland as a boy ( Leland said yes when Bob asked ). At one point Mike says that Bob has been in TP "some 40 years now" I think is the line. While there have never been complete answers about how Bob operates, it seems from what was shown of Bob controlling Leland, there were times when Bob was not in control, maybe re-charging energy to control him. One obvious moment would be when he sees Laura with Ronette through the window at the motel ( FWWM ), not knowing Laura was friends with Teresa Banks, and takes off. 

Wait, I remember there was a plot thread from original show that wasn't explored further.  Something about an old house where Bob used to live or something?  I think the address was investigated, but they only found neighbors saying something I can't remember.

Do you know what I'm talking about?

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 5:33 am
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular

Oh yeah, there was that signal from space that turned out to come from Twin Peaks forests.

See, if Blue Book at first thought it was investigating aliens from outer space, but later learned there was no alien from outer space, only spirits from another dimension, then that's acceptable for me.

But I'll boycott the show if any of the cast starts boarding a spaceship, or if any of our spirits start touching fingers with slimy bug-eyed green creatures with rabbit ears.

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 5:40 am
(@karen_paynter)
Deputy

A house where Leland remembered staying as a boy, he saw the "have you seen this man" poster and recognized the face, came & told Harry & Coop about it. Hawk investigates out there, but didn't come away with anything really useful. 

Fire Walk With Me

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Posted : 20/06/2017 5:44 am
(@oyster_bells)
Roadhouse Regular

And to be honest, that talking blob-headed tree was already pushin' it for me.... 

"Dougie, who do you prefer now, me or that Jade?"
"Jade."
"No, no, Dougie! Jade. Or. Me?"
"Me."
"Okay, once again. Jade. Or. Janey-E?"
"E."

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/06/2017 5:46 am
(@haxan_l_morningstar)
RR Diner Patron

@Oyster Bells: I see your point - I kind of anticipated it, actually, because it used to be my point as well, and that's the reason why I referenced H. P. Lovecraft.

Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos (or his "Yog-Sothothery", as H.P.L. used to call it) were rooted in the idea of Ancient Gods and Eldritch Abomination that "came from the stars" ('aliens') but now dwells "under the seas" ('monsters'), can possess or influence people (like 'demons' or 'spirits') and that exist on a plane of reality that can only be accessed through dreams (not unlike certain Lodges we are familiar with). Another central idea, in H.P.L., is the existence of a "forbidden knowledge" (deeply connected with these Ancient Gods and Eldritch Abominations) that, if accessed or even glimpsed at, inevitably leads the human mind to utter madness.

Once you keep this in mind, it's not hard to see how the "stars" work as a metaphor for a form of intellect that goes beyond what a 'normal human' can (or should) experience and how the "seas" are a metaphor for the subconscious, effectively making this creatures 'aliens' AND 'demons' AND 'manifestations of the deepest corner of the human psyche' at the same time. (You can check Tv Tropes 'Twin Peaks' page for an examination of just how much of TP is 'Lovecraft Country').

 

So, back to TP, I always used this interpretation to avoid (or, rather, to "explain away") the... pesky references to UFO and "little grey men" that started surfacing midway through season 2 - as I said, I'm with you in not caring one bit for spaceship and greys and all that jazz. 

 

Also, TSHoTP may or may not be exactly 'canon' (although this is Twin Peaks, not freakin' Star Wars so - thankfully - 'canon' is not as defined a concept, here, as it is in LucasFilm's flag-bearer) so you are pretty much free to read/interpret the whole thing however suits you best : -)

 

I have the fury of my own momentum

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Posted : 20/06/2017 5:51 am
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