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Pros and Cons

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(@bewareofbob)
Posts: 73
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

I hate to multiply threads, but there seems to be no place where I can post my stuff without derailing the thread. These are my absolutely subjective thoughts, with no intention to provide a “key”, or side with Lynchian or non-Lynchian fans.

Let’s dive into my pros and cons of the Finale (and TR in general). I’ll leave out what for me is obvious, for example the stellar work by Kyle and his fellow actors, or the way this show has kept us guessing, thinking and dreaming until the end.

PROS:

1) I am at peace with most of the “meaningless” side action. The scenes in the Roadhouse, which I believe is a real place and not dreamed up by Audrey despite the strangeness (THE Nine Inch Nails, the non-exis-tent ZZ Top), are a background to the ugliness/confusion of TP; they are not resolved because they embody the chaos behind the lives which we desperately try to keep in order. Also, Hutch and Chantal were perfect as they were. Jerry deserves his own thread. At the end of it all, I don’t mind Frank’s wife and Beverly’s husband either: they provided a quick glance behind the scenes of these people who are very much like us. Finally, Boy and Girl from Ep. 8 don’t need to be specific characters for me: they are a figure of lost innocence, in keeping with the theme of the episode.

2) As I wrote in another thread, the Roadhouse songs are a part of the narration, if chaotic like the booth scenes. Every time I look up the lyrics, they make perfect sense. Even James’s song.

3) Lucy vs. Mr. C: genius. Knowing Lucy, understanding cell phones rates higher in her heart than killing a bad guy. The poor thing will have to deal with taking a life; luckily she has Andy to steady her.

4) Tammy: I’m neutral towards her, but at least I can explain why I was not bothered by her endless swaying. I’ve been taking Tai Chi lessons for a couple of months now and one of its main principles (very simplified) is continuous and fluid movement. Chrysta Bell is into Oriental mysticism, so it would not surprise me if she had incorporated that feature into her performance.

5) So much Sheryl Lee. Oh yeah. 

CONS:

1) Green Glove vs. BOB: nope. I don’t mind unexpected acts of heroism by improbable characters, see Lucy above, and I understand the scene was probably MEANT to be cartoonish, but BOB is one of the greatest bad guys in the history of TV and cinema, not to mention possibly immortal, and deserved more.

2) Tragic tulpa’ed Diane. I liked Laura Dern’s performance and I don’t agree with certain extreme critics who say TR destroyed and invalidated the Original TP for old fans, but certainly the light-hearted and endearing scenes of Dale leaving messages for “Diane” will never be the same for me. I’d rather keep believing Diane was the name of his tape recorder.

3) Judy, or whatever you want to call her/it: great reveal, but too many contradictions in Jeffries’s story, and doesn’t hold a candle to BOB in my imagination as for menace. Too scattered around, no face to fix on. (I’m not convinced that she’s possessing Sarah.) I understand this goes against my idea that the show, all of it, is a metaphor for our world and its evils, and Judy was probably meant to represent exactly that, but she just doesn’t scare me.

4) SOME side action doesn’t work for me. Audrey: I grasp the meaning but I would have preferred her reveal to be in the finale. It was impossible and the scene in the Roadhouse was great, but I kept expecting something more. Becky/Stephen/Gersten: I’d like to lump them in the “TP is twisted” theme, if not that Becky is Bobby’s and Shelly’s daughter. I think the family deserved a resolution, also because a seemingly pivotal character like Red was involved in the whole thing.

5) Too many plot-gimmick Tulpas.

What say you?

 
Posted : 14/09/2017 1:23 pm
(@buttercup)
Posts: 571
Honorable Member
 

I still haven't made peace with the whole finale.  To me, it feels like there should be more to follow ep18. 

  • I agree with you on Lucy and I'd add Andy in there as well.  I liked the fact that they had an important part to play in the drama, yet they were still so much the same.  It was a feel good part of the return.   
  • I think neutral is a good way to describe my feelings about Tammy as well.  I think her role was important, but she may not have been the best actress for the part.  I didn't care much for her portrayal.  
  • Roadhouse music - yes, especially Eddie Vetter.  Roadhouse side stories - no.  
  • Bob's demise was just a bit silly.  Freddie was an interesting character, but there were better ways for Bob to be overpowered.  I've been talking about Bob getting whacked with the golden shovels for a long time now.  I would have preferred that.
  • Diane is a bit of a tragic character.  I can still see her as she was in the original TP, but now I feel how damaged she became as a result of her work with the FBI.  We talk about Cooper being locked up in the red room for 25 years, Diane also had her life stolen.  
  • Audrey - I agree, there should have been more.
  • Judy - I expected more too.  
 
Posted : 14/09/2017 8:50 pm
(@samxtherapy)
Posts: 2250
Noble Member
 

Good analysis but I think the show as an entirety works extremely well.  Granted, there are silly parts that don't seem to hold up alongside some of the others but I accept that as part of everything.  Nothing is perfect, ever.  I agree that the way Bob was dealt with - in fact, most of episode 17 - was bad.  Well below the standards set by the rest of the series, IMO.  

Tammy is one of those characters who will always be divisive.  Me, I liked her, and not just because she's attractive.  I thought the character had a lot of depth, most of which was ignored because of her obvious physical presence.  I cannot imagine Ms Bell would be happy to be portrayed as simply T&A; there has to be some subtext there.  Who is to say an attractive person can't have brains and a solid work ethic, anyhow?  Her acting was certainly nowhere near as bad as some make out, and definitely much better than several others in the series.

Most of the music was ok but not generally the things I'd choose to listen to, given a choice.  In context of the show, however, it seemed to work.

For the Roadhouse stories and other parts:

Audrey and some of the peripheral characters all add to the sense of things happening around and about the story for me.  I like the idea that there's much more we'll never know or understand, just as in real life.

My least favourite character overall was Diane.  Probably a controversial choice, but she seemed unnecessary.  Walk around, drink vodka, insult people, die.  Meh.  Sure, she was needed for the ending but she could have returned there and then, without all the faffing about in between.  That's not to say Ms Dearn did a bad job - far from it - just that the character (Tulpa version), once she was there, didn't do much of any real consequence.  It seemed a wasted opportunity to me.

Judy is something that can be discussed, theorized and revisited for as long as anyone cares.  Maybe Frost and Lynch will provide some answers down the line but don't hold yer breath.

 
Posted : 14/09/2017 9:21 pm
Myn0k and BewareOfBob reacted
(@waldolydeckerjr)
Posts: 31
Eminent Member
 

Too many tulpas?

There were only two tulpas that we know about, Dougie and Diane.

I think there were too many types of lodge beings: the woodsmen, dopplegangers, Judy, the experiment (who might be Judy), the fireman, Bob, the tulpas. They all seem different types of beings with different abilities and roles.

The lowest class seems to be the tulpas, who are entirely disposable. Next in the hierarchy are the woodsmen, they seem to be the footsoldiers of the lodge, servants or guardians. Beyond that, I have no idea.

 

 
Posted : 15/09/2017 12:17 am
(@bewareofbob)
Posts: 73
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

Yes, maybe my "too many tulpas" reaction stems from the moment in the days before the finale, when we suspected everybody of being a tulpa. 😀

Anyway I count four: Original Dougie (who appeared from nowhere in 1977, if I recall correctly), Diane, New Dougie and the first Blue Rose Case.

Edit: Sorry, of course I mean 1997, but I'm not at home and my cell doesn't let me go back. I still don't understand cellular phones!

 
Posted : 16/09/2017 8:33 am
(@myn0k)
Posts: 968
Prominent Member
 

I'm still contemplating the series as a whole.

Currently, for me the pros are:

The overall mystery. What was Mr C after? Who financed the glass box, and why? Who is Red? What was the mother frog and who was the girl? Whats going on with the box in Buenos Aires? These mystery points made the series in my opinion.  There are so many unspoken mysteries that scream of amazing storytelling. Some of the best I've watched on television. 

The major con for me at the moment is that somewhere there is an amazing set of plot points that could have resolved the series from around episode 15 onwards. Yet we kept watching, and waiting, only for the "Bob gets punched in the face" series finale, followed by the "Oooh is it a dream or something else?" ending. Despite what I just said, I liked the finale and it will forever be engrained in my mind. But I do think it could have been better - they missed an amazing story to be resolved using some of the various plot points that were forgotten. 

Not everything needs to be answered. I get that. And I do love the mystery as I said before. But if these plots are never examined in a future series, it's a real wasted story opportunity. I would have loved to know what Mr C was looking for or hoping to achieve, what the lodge hierarchy was and how doppelgangers fit into that structure. What were Bob's motives? It would've not only been a great plot point to at least mention what Bob wanted, but also would've given Silva a bit more focus than just using a cut out image of his head from time to time. Just the odd bit of dialogue would have resolved so many points and enriched the backdrop of everything that was taking place. 

The amazing episode 8 didn't need an explanation. It made sense to me. However, in my opinion you don't throw an episode like that into the series without at least branching off in at least one plot point further along the series. For example, if Laura was so important, how could she be allowed to die? Why was she important? Was her death the planned outcome? 

I've gone off on a tangent, and as I say I'm still processing my pros and cons. The biggest con I guess is wasted opportunity on resolving some amazing stories, plots and mysteries through good storytelling. I'm beginning to feel that Lynch was too scared to tell a typical story, and therefore fell into dream territory as a personal safety net. 

I loved loved loved the series. It was my favourite series of all time. But just like a new lover, flaws or cracks in the relationship soon begin to show and one needs to question what works and what does not in order to find a balance / equilibrium, or whether to call it quits for the sake of both parties. 

Yes, I'm likening my experience of twin peaks to a confusing relationship 🙂

Edit - just as an addendum, to me it's clear that most of the key story points that I personally enjoyed were Frost-written. I think this because the glass box and the terrifying "experiment" were mentioned in the Secret History, and a lot of the curious, cover-up style stories reminded me of some of the mysteries from the series. So a story did exist in my opinion, and Lynch edited / ommited lots of this for his surrealism. I loved the surrealism, I really did. And I'm not in the mood to be told that "I don't get Lynch" because those who regularly brandish that phrase around on here are making the assumption that they understand posters' individual histories, likes and passions, which they do not. 

Fact is - Frost = awesome storyteller. 

Lynch = awesome impressionist/surrealist director. 

Both of them have their pros and cons. For the most part, it was a match made in heaven. But overall, I feel that Lynch has introduced just a smidgeon too much of his own ongoing directorial bugbears that it's possibly led to a finale episode that wasn't as good as it could've been (even though it was still good. It could've been better from a storytelling perspective). 

Phew. Think I'm finished now 😉

 

 

 

 
Posted : 16/09/2017 9:14 am
(@exar-kun)
Posts: 28
Eminent Member
 

+ Love the opening. The imagery fits perfectly with the music. When it begins, I'm already in that world. 10/10

+ When Cooper fell from the space, and afterwards when I saw the purple vapor bursting through, I was mesmerized. Afterwards, what I think is one of the best horror scenes in history. Totally mesmerizing. Along with the furnace room, Naido, and the time moving forward, backward glitch... the color and how you can see Cooper's helplessness feel there, the mother banging the door... It's all done so well.

+ The significane of the casino... I laughed so hard along the scene. And I remember I didn't laugh so hard for a long time till this scene... it was unbelievable. And then when they separate in that same spot, I remember crying. That place was so unreal.... Amazing scenes.

+ Bobby's character. It was a great decision by Lynch on making him a mature character he was supposed to be. Wish we'd seen him more...

+ Kyle. What can I say? This man delivered one of the best acting I've ever seen. If not the best... Phenomenal acting. All versions of the same character, and many many little details on each one of them, and it was all done beyond well. I can't say enough.

+ Bad... bad binoculars. bad binoculars.... Haha. There was great humor this season.

+ Design of the convenience store, the hallway in the picture, stairs, the motel, fortress in the purple sea, the furnace room was all done great.  The color pallette, the lightning, the sounds, characters, ambience: Everything about them was great. Evokes a great fear and fascination about the unknown depths of reality. In each of them, I felt like I was there.

+ The place where Coop and Diane enter the other timeline... with the look of the electrical poles, it felt like infinity there.

+ Night driving scenes done so well. Both in Mr C scenes, and the one in the Odessa to Twin Peaks trip both felt so intense.  Even a small detail such as, stopping in the gas station, was done so great.  There's a certain mystery and comfort about driving at night, and the scenery of gas stations at night. Lynch captured them the right way.

+ Axolotl scene. Fits just right for the episode, and foreshadowing the ending in a way.

+ The design of Laura's room in Odessa town was absolutely fantastic. So many details there, and I felt great tension and fear by the look of it. The man shot in the head by an assault rifle.. well, it may seem simple, but done so well. Great horror scene. Also the phone ring tone has evoked a certain fear but I don't know, I have only wtched once as of now. But remember the tone having a distinctive feel to it.

 

+ The ending. Well, I felt terror like nothing before is all I can say. Everything about it was perfect.

 

 

- Roadhouse bands. Hated the indie vibe from the scenes. I only really liked the Axolotl scene. Both the song and the scene was great.

- Ray wise shown only couple of seconds. This man was a tremendous actor, and wish we'd seen him more. His work in FWWM was phenomenal. Along with Sheryl Lee. Well, glad we saw her in the last episode..

- Some particular very long dragging scenes. Like the mopping of the floor in roadhouse for 5 minutes. That was unnecessary. Remember couple of other scenes which bore me to death, but can't remember all of them now.

- Tammy. Absolutely hated her character. The constant moving of her body here and there.... her eyes, and the way she spoke. Such a nerve. An absolute nerve.

- I always thought Diane would be... well, someone more feminine, with soft facial structure and a mellow  person which would fit Coop. Dern played her role very well, yes. However I don't see a connection between she and Coop. They just don't match.

- Cooper should've had more time. Bobby should've had more time. Harry should've been in the season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
Posted : 16/09/2017 10:30 am
(@dennis_routledge-tizzard)
Posts: 3
Active Member
 

I actually made a video about this topic!

Twin Peaks Season 3 In 6 Pros and Cons (With Spanish Subtitles)

Enjoy!

 
Posted : 18/09/2017 7:49 am
(@artamisbgone)
Posts: 40
Eminent Member
 

My only con is that during the final scene in the sheriffs office, Coop didn't acknowledge Albert. Someone he interacted with a great deal throughout TP's.

That stuck out like a sore thumb and was very odd for me. Doesn't feel right.

 

 
Posted : 24/09/2017 10:35 am
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