FAN THEORY
Judy, The Mother and The Experiment are the same entity. The 'extreme negative force' that birthed BOB and the Frog-Moth Eggs and Garmonbozia/Pain & Suffering (in Part 8). The Mother/Experiment follows Cooper (when he starts trying to leave the waiting room) through the Glass Box in NYC and catches up with him in the Mauve Zone.
This entity is represented by the Owl Cave Symbol as well as the slightly different symbol on Hawk’s Map, Mr. C’s playing card and in Major Briggs’s secret message.
The clue “The Little Girl Who Lived Down The Lane” seems to be a reference to the little girl in Part 8 who swallows the Frog-Moth. (Note: Laura and Audrey did not “live down the lane” but this little girl did!) I think it’s very likely that this little girl in intended to be Sarah Palmer. The time frame and age certainly make sense.
****Further proof that Sarah Palmer is the little girl (from Part 8) who 'lived down the lane' and is now inhabited by Judy/The Mother/Experiment.
1) When Sarah pulls her face off it shows us that she is possessed or inhabited by something ‘dark’ or a ‘negative force’ (opposite Laura’s light behind her face). Because of this scene, this is the only character in Season 3 that we know for sure is possessed by an evil entity (besides BOB inside Evil Coop). The only female character we've seen be infiltrated by a seemingly evil or negative force (Frog-Moth birthed from Experiment's vomit and assisted by The Woodsmen, just as the Woodsmen helped BOB throughout this season) is the young girl in Part 8.
2) In the original series & FWWM Sarah Palmer is the only person to see the White/Pale Horse (besides Dale Cooper when he’s shown this by The Giant/Fireman). Remember the Woodsman’s poem: “The Horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within”.
3) One of the only other times we see the Horse is in behind the curtains of the Waiting Room right after the Laura entity is wrenched away. This seems to be almost exactly what happens to Laura in Part 17 & 18 when Cooper is attempting to lead her home in the alternate FWWM timeline. This moment further emphasizes Sarah Palmer's involvement because her stabbing of Laura's picture seems to have a cause-and-effect on the Laura in 1989 with Cooper in the woods.
4) The way she murders the ‘Truck-You’ guy at the bar is almost exactly the same way the creature in NYC murders the two lovers. This definitely seems to be an extreme negative force.
5) Phillip Jefferies (as a teapot) tells Cooper where he can find Judy and shows him the Owl Cave Symbol and the numbers 7-0-8 (which is the address of the Palmer house).
6) When Sarah Palmer speaks in a low deep voice in the Season 2 finale it’s implied that Windom Earle is speaking through her, but is this true? This manipulated Sarah Palmer voice seems to be the same one that calls Evil Coop in his hotel room near the beginning of Season 3 and tells him that he's going back into the Lodge. And is the same monstrous “Laura!” voice heard throughout the Original Series and the final moments of Season 3.
SIDENOTE: It seems clear also that Audrey has been effected by the Lodges is now trapped their (and/or is possibly a Tulpa or has her own Tupla). We know that Diane interacted with Evil Coop and became trapped in the Mauve Zone as Nadio while her Tulpa ran free. If Evil Coop visited Audrey in the hospital a very similar thing could be happening with her. Dialogue about ’not feeling like theirselves’ seem to be similar between Diane and Audrey.
Nope. The Experiment and Mother aren't the same. I posted screen grabs in an earlier episode's forum which shows significantly different anatomy.
Sarah bites the throat out of the trucker, the two in New York were mutilated, as if they'd been hacked about with a huge rotating blade.
Whatever is in Sarah could be The Experiment, Mother or something else entirely.
We can't really compare anatomy between the 'two' when the pale white creature we've SEEN has always been credited as The Experiment through Season 3. http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Experiment
So the creature we've seen we know to be The Experiment every time. No need to compare screen grabs.
"The Mother" is only verbally referenced in Part 3. I guess this leads credit to The mother being a different entity, but only if we don't take any of the context into account.
5) Phillip Jefferies (as a teapot) tells Cooper where he can find Judy and shows him the Owl Cave Symbol and the numbers 7-0-8 (which is the address of the Palmer house).
Where's the 7-0-8? I just rewatched the scene and only saw the symbol as it morphed into the 8 with the little bubble or stone in it.
Yes, I think this is true. I also think that given the Palmer House in the Carrie Page Universe was sold to a Tremond by a Chalfont that the old lady in the original series, Mrs. Chalfont/Tremond, is the same as Judy/Experiment/etc.
I am not sure Sarah Palmer is possessed in the 21st century though. She acts differently from the possessed. Leland never rips his face off does he? I think 21st century Sarah is a Tulpa controlled by Judy/etc. and Sarah is in the Black Lodge. She even tells Major Briggs she is in the Black Lodge with Dale Cooper.
We can't really compare anatomy between the 'two' when the pale white creature we've SEEN has always been credited as The Experiment through Season 3. http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Experiment
So the creature we've seen we know to be The Experiment every time. No need to compare screen grabs.
"The Mother" is only verbally referenced in Part 3. I guess this leads credit to The mother being a different entity, but only if we don't take any of the context into account.
I think the Atomic Bomb creature was credited as the Experiment and the New York creature was credited as Experiment Model (maybe a junior version lol)
We can't really compare anatomy between the 'two' when the pale white creature we've SEEN has always been credited as The Experiment through Season 3. http://twinpeaks.wikia.com/wiki/Experiment
So the creature we've seen we know to be The Experiment every time. No need to compare screen grabs.
"The Mother" is only verbally referenced in Part 3. I guess this leads credit to The mother being a different entity, but only if we don't take any of the context into account.
I think the Atomic Bomb creature was credited as the Experiment and the New York creature was credited as Experiment Model (maybe a junior version lol)
That's the one. Experiment Model and Experiment. They are two different beings. So, that invalidates my idea regarding Mother. It doesn't, however, invalidate my remark about how the various people were killed.
SIDENOTE: It seems clear also that Audrey has been effected by the Lodges is now trapped their (and/or is possibly a Tulpa or has her own Tupla). We know that Diane interacted with Evil Coop and became trapped in the Mauve Zone as Nadio while her Tulpa ran free. If Evil Coop visited Audrey in the hospital a very similar thing could be happening with her. Dialogue about ’not feeling like theirselves’ seem to be similar between Diane and Audrey.
I don't know anything but figured I'd throw this into the thread. If Diane became Naido in the Mauve Zone maybe Audrey became American Girl. She was an all-American girl (more or less) back in the day. It adds a nice symmetry at least.
FAN THEORY
Judy, The Mother and The Experiment are the same entity. The 'extreme negative force' that birthed BOB and the Frog-Moth Eggs and Garmonbozia/Pain & Suffering (in Part 8). The Mother/Experiment follows Cooper (when he starts trying to leave the waiting room) through the Glass Box in NYC and catches up with him in the Mauve Zone.This entity is represented by the Owl Cave Symbol as well as the slightly different symbol on Hawk’s Map, Mr. C’s playing card and in Major Briggs’s secret message.
The clue “The Little Girl Who Lived Down The Lane” seems to be a reference to the little girl in Part 8 who swallows the Frog-Moth. (Note: Laura and Audrey did not “live down the lane” but this little girl did!) I think it’s very likely that this little girl in intended to be Sarah Palmer. The time frame and age certainly make sense.
****Further proof that Sarah Palmer is the little girl (from Part 8) who 'lived down the lane' and is now inhabited by Judy/The Mother/Experiment.
1) When Sarah pulls her face off it shows us that she is possessed or inhabited by something ‘dark’ or a ‘negative force’ (opposite Laura’s light behind her face). Because of this scene, this is the only character in Season 3 that we know for sure is possessed by an evil entity (besides BOB inside Evil Coop). The only female character we've seen be infiltrated by a seemingly evil or negative force (Frog-Moth birthed from Experiment's vomit and assisted by The Woodsmen, just as the Woodsmen helped BOB throughout this season) is the young girl in Part 8.
2) In the original series & FWWM Sarah Palmer is the only person to see the White/Pale Horse (besides Dale Cooper when he’s shown this by The Giant/Fireman). Remember the Woodsman’s poem: “The Horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within”.
3) One of the only other times we see the Horse is in behind the curtains of the Waiting Room right after the Laura entity is wrenched away. This seems to be almost exactly what happens to Laura in Part 17 & 18 when Cooper is attempting to lead her home in the alternate FWWM timeline. This moment further emphasizes Sarah Palmer's involvement because her stabbing of Laura's picture seems to have a cause-and-effect on the Laura in 1989 with Cooper in the woods.
4) The way she murders the ‘Truck-You’ guy at the bar is almost exactly the same way the creature in NYC murders the two lovers. This definitely seems to be an extreme negative force.
5) Phillip Jefferies (as a teapot) tells Cooper where he can find Judy and shows him the Owl Cave Symbol and the numbers 7-0-8 (which is the address of the Palmer house).
6) When Sarah Palmer speaks in a low deep voice in the Season 2 finale it’s implied that Windom Earle is speaking through her, but is this true? This manipulated Sarah Palmer voice seems to be the same one that calls Evil Coop in his hotel room near the beginning of Season 3 and tells him that he's going back into the Lodge. And is the same monstrous “Laura!” voice heard throughout the Original Series and the final moments of Season 3.
SIDENOTE: It seems clear also that Audrey has been effected by the Lodges is now trapped their (and/or is possibly a Tulpa or has her own Tupla). We know that Diane interacted with Evil Coop and became trapped in the Mauve Zone as Nadio while her Tulpa ran free. If Evil Coop visited Audrey in the hospital a very similar thing could be happening with her. Dialogue about ’not feeling like theirselves’ seem to be similar between Diane and Audrey.
I agree with everything in this post. This is the only viable explanation for everything we have seen in The Return and makes a lot of sense.
FAN THEORY
Judy, The Mother and The Experiment are the same entity. The 'extreme negative force' that birthed BOB and the Frog-Moth Eggs and Garmonbozia/Pain & Suffering (in Part 8). The Mother/Experiment follows Cooper (when he starts trying to leave the waiting room) through the Glass Box in NYC and catches up with him in the Mauve Zone.This entity is represented by the Owl Cave Symbol as well as the slightly different symbol on Hawk’s Map, Mr. C’s playing card and in Major Briggs’s secret message.
The clue “The Little Girl Who Lived Down The Lane” seems to be a reference to the little girl in Part 8 who swallows the Frog-Moth. (Note: Laura and Audrey did not “live down the lane” but this little girl did!) I think it’s very likely that this little girl in intended to be Sarah Palmer. The time frame and age certainly make sense.
****Further proof that Sarah Palmer is the little girl (from Part 8) who 'lived down the lane' and is now inhabited by Judy/The Mother/Experiment.
1) When Sarah pulls her face off it shows us that she is possessed or inhabited by something ‘dark’ or a ‘negative force’ (opposite Laura’s light behind her face). Because of this scene, this is the only character in Season 3 that we know for sure is possessed by an evil entity (besides BOB inside Evil Coop). The only female character we've seen be infiltrated by a seemingly evil or negative force (Frog-Moth birthed from Experiment's vomit and assisted by The Woodsmen, just as the Woodsmen helped BOB throughout this season) is the young girl in Part 8.
2) In the original series & FWWM Sarah Palmer is the only person to see the White/Pale Horse (besides Dale Cooper when he’s shown this by The Giant/Fireman). Remember the Woodsman’s poem: “The Horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within”.
3) One of the only other times we see the Horse is in behind the curtains of the Waiting Room right after the Laura entity is wrenched away. This seems to be almost exactly what happens to Laura in Part 17 & 18 when Cooper is attempting to lead her home in the alternate FWWM timeline. This moment further emphasizes Sarah Palmer's involvement because her stabbing of Laura's picture seems to have a cause-and-effect on the Laura in 1989 with Cooper in the woods.
4) The way she murders the ‘Truck-You’ guy at the bar is almost exactly the same way the creature in NYC murders the two lovers. This definitely seems to be an extreme negative force.
5) Phillip Jefferies (as a teapot) tells Cooper where he can find Judy and shows him the Owl Cave Symbol and the numbers 7-0-8 (which is the address of the Palmer house).
6) When Sarah Palmer speaks in a low deep voice in the Season 2 finale it’s implied that Windom Earle is speaking through her, but is this true? This manipulated Sarah Palmer voice seems to be the same one that calls Evil Coop in his hotel room near the beginning of Season 3 and tells him that he's going back into the Lodge. And is the same monstrous “Laura!” voice heard throughout the Original Series and the final moments of Season 3.
SIDENOTE: It seems clear also that Audrey has been effected by the Lodges is now trapped their (and/or is possibly a Tulpa or has her own Tupla). We know that Diane interacted with Evil Coop and became trapped in the Mauve Zone as Nadio while her Tulpa ran free. If Evil Coop visited Audrey in the hospital a very similar thing could be happening with her. Dialogue about ’not feeling like theirselves’ seem to be similar between Diane and Audrey.
I agree with everything in this post. This is the only viable explanation for everything we have seen in The Return and makes a lot of sense.
I'm with both of you on this.
The Experiment and the Experiment Model may well be two different entities (this would make sense in reference to The Secret History) but I think they answer to Judy and Judy is sure as hell controlling Sarah now.
I did think I had seen the 7-0-8 come out of Jefferies' spout but doubted myself when I saw no references to it other than the 8.
N.B. I think the moving ball within the 8 from Jefferies is a reference to the temporal mobius strip that is taking place in the Palmer house (boxing show looping over and over).
But the 8 is not infinity - it's not on its side. That's key - it's a loop, not a endlessly continuing thread. And the loop was broken when Laura remembered.
My goodness it's set up nicely for a Season 4 (pretty please).
And another thing - Josie in the re-played S1 footage sans Laura wrapped in plastic - kinda sinister in this new context. In the Secret History she is 'Judy's sister'. I got the chills when I watched that scene.
Mr C was definitely trying to locate Judy through his long search for coordinates, and as has been pointed out elsewhere, when he is drawn up through the Vortex and into the Lodge where he is temporarily suspended in a cage, the Fireman shifts his next destination from the Palmer House to the Sheriff's Station. He is being misdirected, to the trap that the Fireman has set for him in the person of the green gloved Freddie Sykes. Had Mr C gone to the Palmer House he would have fulfilled his quest and met up with Judy, the negative spirit inhabiting Sarah Palmer. I also suspect that the Mrs Chalfont who sold the house to the Tremonds could also be Sarah. The way she kept house during the Return certainly reminded me of Mrs Tremond/Chalfont's place when Donna Hayward first brought her Meals on Wheels dinner (with the unasked for creamed corn.)
Mr C was definitely trying to locate Judy through his long search for coordinates, and as has been pointed out elsewhere, when he is drawn up through the Vortex and into the Lodge where he is temporarily suspended in a cage, the Fireman shifts his next destination from the Palmer House to the Sheriff's Station. He is being misdirected, to the trap that the Fireman has set for him in the person of the green gloved Freddie Sykes. Had Mr C gone to the Palmer House he would have fulfilled his quest and met up with Judy, the negative spirit inhabiting Sarah Palmer. I also suspect that the Mrs Chalfont who sold the house to the Tremonds could also be Sarah. The way she kept house during the Return certainly reminded me of Mrs Tremond/Chalfont's place when Donna Hayward first brought her Meals on Wheels dinner (with the unasked for creamed corn.)
Crikey, great shout on the Palmer house being in frame at the White Lodge when Bad Coop is caged up. This means the Fireman does know where Judy is, contrary to what I just said in another thread.
seriously though, if there is a 7-0-8 coming out of the tea pot I didn't see it after watching 3 times and this reveal would be very important as Gordon would say....you need to give us screen shots of each number.
Fire walk with