.
Seems maybe like the monkey is supposed to represent Jeffries rather than Judy, since it says Judy in his voice. I too thought the monkey was supposed to represent Judy at first, but this makes more "sense" in that maybe Jeffries is to the Experiment as a monkey in a cage is to a laboratory experiment.
Yeah, Jeffries is closer to the monkey, just like the jumping man(who can turn into the monkey by removing the mask), since he resides in the convenience motel/store complex. He just stays there 'where its slippery', morphed into an abomination residing where people end up when dreams are broken, etc., then he points people to their pain/dreams at fixing, bringing justice, love, etc., points them to Judy......the unsolvable disconnect between life and dreams. The 'animal life', or turning into a monkey, the life without dreams, is exactly what Agent Cooper did by 'solving' everything once and for all, making a factual solution, while trying to play 'eraserhead' with pain and dreams. This factual approach has to turn into the monkey 'animal life' of the convenience store again.....the problems left in tact, creeping and bubbling under, taking over while people are 'sleepwalking', thinking some Dougie will be their salvation....
Seems maybe like the monkey is supposed to represent Jeffries rather than Judy, since it says Judy in his voice. I too thought the monkey was supposed to represent Judy at first, but this makes more "sense" in that maybe Jeffries is to the Experiment as a monkey in a cage is to a laboratory experiment
I like that!-- Jeffries as a lab monkey - That's great. - I don't think it's correct to say that hearing Jeffries say "Judy" makes that clear though. We could have been looking at Judy, hearing what he says - And there's no attempt to make the monkey's lips move to the words or anything.-- I did think the monkey bit was just part of a series of disturbing images, the closeup of corn being sucked into a mouth et al - I didn't think we were supposed to connect Judy with the monkey specifically. But, in any case, I like the idea of maybe the monkey being used to represent Jeffries.
As shown by Jeffries, Judy is 'that thing you never want to find out about', from Hawks map, the owl cave symbol that turns into infinity, the thing you can never get rid of, death as life not fit for dreams, the 'sick life' vomiting BOB/truckdrivers, etc., the disconnect of life from dreams, while you have to dream nonetheless(woods turning into red curtain, home/natural life destroyed, goes into the Julie Cruise song). Since you can never get rid of it, Judy is not simply something bad, that can be defeated once and for all, when you try this, you are stuck in the sick life completely, and this is exactly what happened to Agent Cooper when he attempted to just fix everything factually, complete disaster that ignores dreams, the infinite presence of the pain that was just 'smoothed over' and tried to forget it.
Agent Cooper and Mr. C had the same quest, to erase the past, the pain and destruction of dreams which drove him mad after he went to Twin Peaks and tried to realize his dreams. Its not about destroying Judy, we get the 'infinite' sign here, cannot be destroyed, thus Agent Cooper must go into Judy's cafe and confront the problems he was trying to eliminate 'factually', must appropriate the negative reaction that Mr. C embodied in a wild automatic way, its about his negative reaction to the destruction of his dreams in the face of blind and stupid natural life which is not fit for these dreams, like in Judy's cafe, the truck drivers, the evil in Twin Peaks which is stronger than ever. This was the happy ending, Agent Cooper came back and 'fixed' everything factually, he became the 'dreamer that existed', saved Laura Palmer from death, restored Diane's vitality and even tried to be in love with her, BOB dead, Mr. C and negativity destroyed, then living factual life.....in Odessa, Texas. Judy is not something to be fought, or appropriated as Mr. C was trying to do, this is a hiding and defense reaction to the trauma and destruction of dreams, injustice, etc. that was the horror of Twin Peaks, an attempt to make everything alright, and like it was before Agent Cooper entered Twin Peaks. There is no way out of Judy, and the secret is overcoming immanent to the negativity, using the negative reaction in relation to the stupid life that just goes on without dreams or even recognizing the problems. Thus Agent Cooper and Diane failed because of the rape and hatred right under the surface never dealt with, Laura tried to go on and say 'I was young, it wasnt my fault' and just live her life, and now Twin Peaks, that world built on the pain of lost dreams disappears(Sarah is gone) because the negative reactions to this unjust life are gone, trying to forget dreams/negativity/in-existence and hide in existence.....If you want Twin Peaks back, there is no easy salvation via Dougie, no guaranteed easy answers, problems are still there, who is going to deal with them?
Judy, the force of negativity needs to be appropriated by Cooper, if we want to dream about Twin Peaks properly, this is what the return is about, what is truly evil is killing the dream and living on in disgusting filth of life without dreams, this is Odessa, Texas, convenience motel, 'viva las vegas'. No one is taking care of the dreams, its up to Cooper properly stand up here, with all the seriousness to the tragedy that happened, no way to get rid of Judy or the trauma here, this attempt is the biggest evil, animal life. Once Mr. C(on the left hand) is caged by the fireman in the theater, with Major Briggs' head watching over the right hand, we see a huge factory floor filled with those 'electricity bells'(like the one that shocked Naido in the purple room), and we saw Mr. C burning brightly but trapped in the red room....Judy must be the source of energy for Agent Cooper proper, giving dignity to Twin Peaks and its tragedy, standing negatively in reaction to it; and its not party time here Dougie style, it was horror that happened, and its not going to be alright....Mr. C's quest failed, he was trying to appropriate Judy, which is a non-existent negative reaction to the filth of life without dreams(as epitomized by the 'truck driver' at Judy's cafe, where Laura now works, still hiding from the problems, saved by 1989 Cooper); but old Agent Cooper/Dougie had the same goal, to try and factually appropriate the source of energy, change the past so it would not be there, something like a 'once and for all' fix that would erase the pain that drove Cooper mad, and he was going into the past to try to hide from his duty and hide from the traumatic impact of the horror of Twin Peaks, and that the world and life is not fit for even the most basic dreams of community, justice, love, etc; Cooper was trying to play 'eraserhead' here and episode 18, odessa, Texas is the result, problems untouched and stronger than ever......
But now Cooper has properly returned and has that factory of electricity bells in the theater as his source of energy, with major briggs watching over the right hand(caging Mr. C), Cooper has appropriated Judy and returned to the original traumas and injustice of Twin Peaks, things are just getting interesting...a new season would be great, I would love to see it....
This is great.
I've been thinking about the bells. For some reason they seem to me like a "matrix" possibly of souls. Maybe a storage space for souls between assignments or something? Assignments given to them by the Fireman? I am thinking souls because of Jeffries in one of them (our teapot Phillip) although he seems to be too damaged/distintegrated to be a soul anymore. I'm also thinking that Audrey might be in a similar state in one of them.
Did anyone else literally laugh out loud at coles revelation that jow day was now pronounced JUDY. seemed a bit heavy handed
This is great.
I've been thinking about the bells. For some reason they seem to me like a "matrix" possibly of souls. Maybe a storage space for souls between assignments or something? Assignments given to them by the Fireman? I am thinking souls because of Jeffries in one of them (our teapot Phillip) although he seems to be too damaged/distintegrated to be a soul anymore. I'm also thinking that Audrey might be in a similar state in one of them.
Yeah, Jeffries is sort of a variation on the 'electricity bells', one that gives off steam instead of electricity/energy.....something like an 'electricity bell' whose fire has been extinguished in the convenience store/motel complex, also where Agent Cooper's 'fire' was extinguished and he became Richard, like the kid everyone hated.... Jeffries is where fire is extinguished, the spot of encounter with Judy, then reaction to it, something like a negative 'fireman', place of death, detachment from life, its blind to dreams and supports truck drivers etc., no reason to chase it or pretend its going to deliver salvation, which then opens up freedom as negative force(Cooper returning to place of crushed dreams, fighting the truck drivers in Judy's diner, etc.)....in there is the space to find the fireman proper, being 'out of tune' with the flow of life, seeing the problems in it, reflecting from it, thinking about it, trying to fix etc., passion of dreams; and this space what Laura(or Agent Cooper) did not have and got caught in Odessa life....theyve both now made the return
Did anyone else literally laugh out loud at coles revelation that jow day was now pronounced JUDY. seemed a bit heavy handed
I always thought that Judy was the 'femme fatale' that led to Jeffries going mad, but I like what theyve done with it, even if somewhat heavy handed, it introduces a nice idea that was absent in the original.....
An extreme negative force huh... Maybe Judy is all of the people who hated the ending. ?
Did anyone else literally laugh out loud at coles revelation that jow day was now pronounced JUDY. seemed a bit heavy handed
--well, I didn't. Not sure what you mean by "heavy handed" in this context. That phrase means when there's a message which has been hammered over the audience's head to make sure they get it. Maybe you mean farfetched that Jow Day would over time come to be prounced Judy-?
Why is this Extreme.Negative.Force, "Jow-Dae" aka JUDY, depicted as a Monkey? Or why did Lynch make us associate this Entity, an E.N.F, with a monkey?
The 'extreme negative force' exposes the separation of dreams/thinking from life/'mother nature'/Chad's 'enjoying this beautiful day'; and thus life/nature is not fit for dreams, not presented as a ready made default where everything is alright, so that we could have a happy 'superhero solution' where one bad guy is gotten rid of and we end up back in the default harmony with nature. Thus, following the flow of life, what is guaranteed, coming to rest without dreams is tantamount to 'animal life' that denies all thinking/dream and endorses luck, 'seven heaven', whatever happens, truck drivers, natural force, barbarism, etc., the slow decay and 'sleepwalking' of Twin Peaks and Odessa. Dreams are not guaranteed, neither is nature/state/government/justice, etc., they are both cut by the 'extremely negative force'; but its is only through this 'negative force'(cut in us and between us and nature, the cut is in us because nature is not guaranteed to fit our dreams, etc.), only through this negative force that dreams can exist in the first place, dreaming of something better than presented in the natural violent cycles of nature guaranteed, or presented to us, a negative reaction to the blind and remorseless violence of nature, its slow decay, violent explosions, and thoughtless/remorseless death.
Cooper, Diane, and Laura must return to the negative force and this pain of being split from nature, and from their own dreams, the pain/garmanbozia in order to return to their dreams to give the proper passion and tragic aspect back to their dreams make them important; and dreams are important over and above following nature/facts without dreams(the happy 'superhero' ending where a savior comes along, takes care of everything and allows us to rest). Nature/state without dreams, without the freedom of the negative force which dreams of what is lacking, the negative reaction to the injustices of nature/'state of things'/government which culminates in dreams, makes things like animal coupling into something transcendent like love, etc. This 'superhero ending' without negativity culminates in Odessa, Texas, where Laura tried to forget her dreams and integrate herself into the 'world of truck drivers' the very ones who crushed her dreams, followed by the slow decay and violent outbursts which have overtaken Twin Peaks itself, with its slowly increasing violence and decay, new 'Lauras' everywhere, drug overdoses, declining standards, etc., criminals, truck drivers, and mafia celebrated, Jean Michel busier than Jacques ever was, etc. Nature itself is split, it has vortex/void in it, but is also stupid, so its blind violence of life slowly creeps on remorselessly, the disgust in humans, the tragic part only comes because we have this negative force as freedom, a negative reaction from nature that dreams/thinks/acts freely and reflective away from the slow decay or coming to rest in a 'superhero solution'/animal life, or 'nature without dreams. Jeffries associated the monkey with Judy, and was so disturbed by the 'meeting above the convenience store', because he had just been exposed to this force, that nature/state/dreams, etc. are not guaranteed, that the 'default' is 'animal life'; and this drove him mad, like it did for Cooper and Briggs, who all 'disappeared', but Cooper and Laura are now able to come back from this and back to negativity and dreams by no longer trying to hide from Judy/negative force, but confronting it at the source of the pain, but also giving them the freedom of standing for their dreams, that they do not have to sit quietly in Odessa, and this is why Cooper was drawn to 430 which revealed the failed truth of his 'superhero solution', showed that he cannot be with Diane after what happened, etc.
Just wanted to chime in and say that when I read the words "extreme negative force," I hear them in the voice of Randy "The Macho Man" Savage.
Once you're there, you can't unhear it.
Seems maybe like the monkey is supposed to represent Jeffries rather than Judy, since it says Judy in his voice. I too thought the monkey was supposed to represent Judy at first, but this makes more "sense" in that maybe Jeffries is to the Experiment as a monkey in a cage is to a laboratory experiment
I like that!-- Jeffries as a lab monkey - That's great. - I don't think it's correct to say that hearing Jeffries say "Judy" makes that clear though. We could have been looking at Judy, hearing what he says - And there's no attempt to make the monkey's lips move to the words or anything.
I wanted to point out that the monkey's mouth specifically does move in that short scene. How synchronized it is I guess is debatable.
Like cyndee, I don't think the monkey = Judy. I inferred from that scene that the subtitle saying it was Jeffries (or some part of him) saying the word Judy was supposed to have come from the monkey's mouth, meaning the monkey = Jeffries. Granted it was also probably made to be uncomfortable and disturbing. And, Season 3 has a had a couple examples of pretty deliberate monkey sounds, for what that's worth.
I think Jeffries got turned into a monkey by Judy. Then she put him in a kettle. Jeffries really got screwed over in this whole thing. But at least he got to be David Bowie first, so that's something. Even if he did have the worst southern accent ever.
Maybe Lynch just really ficking hates monkeys. What'd they ever to do to you pal??
I wanted to point out that the monkey's mouth specifically does move in that short scene. How synchronized it is I guess is debatable...
You're right, Rob! I watched the end of Fire again this morning, played the monkey shot several times, and saw for the first time that its mouth is relatively synchronized with "Judy" - wow - I remember when I first saw Fire, I didn't even hear "Judy," it's said so quietly. hmmmmm- OK, more of a monkey and Jeffries connection than I realized before. Thanks!
I think Jeffries got turned into a monkey by Judy. Then she put him in a kettle. Jeffries really got screwed over in this whole thing. But at least he got to be David Bowie first, so that's something. Even if he did have the worst southern accent ever.
That's the alternative Looney Tunes universe ending. 😀
Fire walk with