2 birds, 1 stone.
Is Cooper really intending to save Laura when he goes back in time? Or is this meant solely to flush out Judy? When Laura whispers to Cooper in the Red Room, is this idea that she whispers to him?
Laura, via her death, was the stone that uncovered BOB and allowed his eventual destruction. She herself saw her death as the means to stopping BOB in her diary. Is she again, via being "saved", now the stone which will take down Judy?
There's a strong chance she's "The Dream Child". . .
Well, since Diane was Linda and Cooper was Richard, I believe anything or anyone could be the stone. However, the more logical a theory about who or what the stone could be, the less likely that is what it was.
I like the theory that the Fireman scene takes place in the future and is intended to remind Cooper of these things rather than offer him clues.
Well, since Diane was Linda and Cooper was Richard, I believe anything or anyone could be the stone. However, the more logical a theory about who or what the stone could be, the less likely that is what it likely was.
I like the theory that the Fireman scene take place in the future and are intended to remind Cooper rather than offer him clues.
I just don't see that about the Fireman. Yes, he is the Giant in the original run but it's the same actor. Before his appearances were predictions. When the Fireman meets with Andy in Season 3 he shows much of what happens later in the sheriff station. So, still predictive. I don't see the use of the word "Remember" in Episode 1 as a reminder but rather an instruction to not forget what is being told as it's pertinent to the future.
Well, since Diane was Linda and Cooper was Richard, I believe anything or anyone could be the stone. However, the more logical a theory about who or what the stone could be, the less likely that is what it likely was.
I like the theory that the Fireman scene take place in the future and are intended to remind Cooper rather than offer him clues.
I just don't see that about the Fireman. Yes, he is the Giant in the original run but it's the same actor. Before his appearances were predictions. When the Fireman meets with Andy in Season 3 he shows much of what happens later in the sheriff station. So, still predictive. I don't see the use of the word "Remember" in Episode 1 as a reminder but rather an instruction to not forget what is being told as it's pertinent to the future.
Certainly could be, but the Giant did more than offer predictions in the original series: "It is happening again" and warning Cooper when he is falling in love with Annie, for instance.
Some of the Fireman's video for Andy seemed to be a history lesson. One "prediction" regarding Andy guiding Lucy down the hallway didn't even occur (or we didn't see it occur). The Fireman seemed to give Andy the information he needed to act when the time came.
I don't think there was much consistency with either the Giant or Fireman's manner of helping.
Is Laura even still alive after that final scene, where Cooper is forced to remember Twin Peaks tragedy? Once remembering what has happened, with Sarah's scream, would she not vanish again? Cooper cannot bring her back and have her meet the fireman, since she died before this could happen, and she took the ring under a different authority, thus Leland said 'Dont make me do this', after she took the ring?
Yes, it's clear that Andy could not have positioned Lucy as in the prediction as he is bringing the others upstairs at the time. I was thinking maybe the prediction was that Andy got her there by letting her in on his vision and what she needed to do. If he told her this would happen then in a sense he places her there.
Is Laura even still alive after that final scene, where Cooper is forced to remember Twin Peaks tragedy? Once remembering what has happened, with Sarah's scream, would she not vanish again?
The final scream? I think that may break the alternate universe Judy has made but would not necessarily put her in the past again and dead. If that breaks the spell Judy has cast then I think she probably has more tricks up her sleeve.
2 birds, 1 stone.
Is Cooper really intending to save Laura when he goes back in time? Or is this meant solely to flush out Judy? When Laura whispers to Cooper in the Red Room, is this idea that she whispers to him?
Laura, via her death, was the stone that uncovered BOB and allowed his eventual destruction. She herself saw her death as the means to stopping BOB in her diary. Is she again, via being "saved", now the stone which will take down Judy?
The question you present is being asked over and over. I tend to see it as the more "logical " mission that you describe in your first paragraph, wherein Cooper needs Laura to flush out Judy. And the Fireman wanted him to do that.
I have been surprised that so many posters perceive the Fireman's words to Cooper as a warning or admonition, to stop trying to save Laura. The alternative theory, that Cooper needs Laura to neutralize Judy, appears to be much more consistent with other material presented in series. There is nothing to suggest that Cooper was helbent on saving Laura just because he became obsessed with the idea. Where, when, how did he become obsessed?
The belief that the Fireman warned Cooper, from the future, to stop pursuing a hopeless dream over and over, radically alters the entire series. It just isn't the show that I watched for months. The series I watched showed the Fireman sending a Laura orb into the world, presumably for some important purpose.
I would agree. I think the 2 birds, 1 stone reference is Cooper realizing he doesn't need to reinvent the wheel to get Judy. There doesn't need to be more evil, murders, etc. and to do a lot of investigation. He can use Laura again.
Cooper has already met Judy, as Jeffries tells him, this is what split him into two and had him trapped in the red room, what made him mad, etc., separation of dreams from life, etc., void in nature and in himself, negativity. Jeffries tells Cooper, 'this is where youll find Judy', specifically in the convenience motel. Cooper encounters Judy after trying to consummate with Diane, who he was trying to bring back as she was before the rape, also bring back Laura as if she was never killed. In the motel similar to the one Jeffries is in, the 'happy ending' world where someone 'flushed out', or 'got' Judy, is torn to shreds, since the factual solution cannot hide the problems/antagonisms/negativity with the situation(Diane remembers the rape, Cooper starts having to remember how he was Mr. C(now called 'Richard'), etc., the Laura Palmer tragedy), Judy is met here, when positive life shows itself unfit for the dreams and the negative antagonisms that people have with the situation. Judy is infinity, etc., flips to two sides, then the stone just travels on one surface, showing that the 'split' charachters (two Dianes, two Coopers, etc.) are just two sides of the same 'infinity' surface, mobius strip, etc. No getting rid of Judy......Laura screams, etc...these things happened, and a big problem here, still happening in 'Judy's Diner' where Cooper properly has a problem/negative reaction to them.....Judy is the missing element, cannot be gotten rid of, an is even the source of the 'solution', to the extent that there could ever be a solution for such unspeakable tragedies......
Bob could be the stone ! Remember the fight with Freddie in sheriff office ? When Bob came up from the hole on fire , he was a black stone.
Then after Freddie destroyed the stone 2 things happened : bad Cooper was defeated and sent to the lodge and Diane was released from lodge into Naido's body.
Two birds, one stone !
Bob could be the stone ! Remember the fight with Freddie in sheriff office ? When Bob came up from the hole on fire , he was a black stone.
Then after Freddie destroyed the stone 2 things happened : bad Cooper was defeated and sent to the lodge and Diane was released from lodge into Naido's body.
Two birds, one stone !
In this case, when the stone does not 'flip' or switch into two sides, like the fingerprints of Dougie/Mr. C, but instead moves on the same side from one place to the other, its a matter of killing BOB as an external spirit and introducing Mr. C back into Cooper, who is now in control over himself again. Finally Cooper dealt with 'what he was missing', the dreams of community, justice 'saving Laura', etc. the negativity when these dreams were crushed by the life inadequate to sustain these basic things, etc. Negativity/Judy is now part of Cooper himself, so that he can have a negative reaction to it....it does not run off like an external/automatic force, BOB, etc.....
What was Cooper missing that drove him mad? The woman to complement his dreams, the ideal 'homecoming queen' Laura, Annie, Diane, etc......it was hiding from negativity/Judy,, or trying to 'get it'/eliminate it/'flush it out which led to BOB, who needed to be fully integarated with the woman 'Laura', kept going on wild momentum for full positive possession of woamn, refusing Judy and negativity. This is why Cooper and MIKE(whose arm was still talking to BOB) had to be told by Jeffries to meet with Judy, where they will meet Judy, in the motel(as Cooper did in the scene with Diane at the motel, love song, etc.); and also Mr. C was told that he already met Judy(Mr. C was scared of this, since he was on a wild search to possess or eliminate Judy, as Cole said, he was searching for the coordinates of Judy). Dougie and Mr. C were both two different/opposite ways to hide from dealing with Judy, both positive/factual solutions bound to fail: Dougie just wanted to integrate himself into life/mother nature no matter what, even get in with criminals, then at the end factually fix everything and come to rest in a perfect place, etc., which ended in the complete failure of Odessa, worse than death; and on the other end, Mr. C was on the search to possess Judy, find Judy positively, even though it is negativity/'inexistence', so that it cannot be found in the world. Judy/negativity is the disconnect of dreams from nature, that there is no positive/factual connection to be found or achieved, but 'inexistence'/disconnection, inability to put the matter to rest once and for all, always an antagonism that comes up to deal with, etc.....that the woman does not exist, that life/nature is not fit for dreams, there is a negative disconnect, but it is only through meeting Judy/negativity, this disconnect, that Cooper and Diane could have a negative reaction to it, Judy is now integrated into them, they are no longer driven mad by nature/life/BOB to search for a positive factual 'Judy' to possess, thus hide from the negativity. Only after meeting the 'inexistent' Judy in the motel, when their attempt to 'make everything factually right'(Diane back to pre-rape, Cooper back to 'old Coop', Laura not dead, etc.) failed horrible, could then Cooper and Diane make the appropriate negative/Judy reaction to the situation, with Cooper becoming disillusioned with Odessa life, the motel, and go into Judy's cafe, deal with truck drivers, gamble of the 'oil bullets', etc., then take Laura back to the scene of the tragedy and away from the unspeakable horror of Odessa life, it is only back at the tragedy, facing it, negative reaction to it, that the wrongness of what happened and the importance of Laura's dreams can be properly upheld and negatively opposed to the factual situation of widespread injustice, sleepwalking, Odessa life creeping/crawling around; this is why its better for Laura to return to the scene of the tragedy and also why Sarah began to smash Lauras 'dream picture of Laura as homecoming queen' when Cooper factually/positively fixed everything, since this killed Lauras dreams by denying dreams, which are negative/Judy reaction to the injustices of life, what improves life to the standards of dreams, rather than letting it slop around as the life-waste, truck drivers, etc. Diane here also, who could only have the negative reaction to the rape properly, and not be under the automatic direction of BOB/Mr. C, once 'meeting Judy' in the motel room...there is nothing out there in life Diane would ever find at those bars, with the 'stable', taking order from BOB/Mr. C, etc., she had to give proper importance to her pre-rape dreams by putting them in negative/Judy response to the horror she had been through, like Laura at the house. Positivity, factual solution, superhero ending, heroes kill bad guy, etc. is the biggest enemy here, it denies negativity, that there are problems and tragedies here, and does not allow the 'dreamer' to negatively deal with these problems in their proper horror.....What life would be worth living for Cooper, Diane, Laura, without the negativity of their dreams against the horror of life, the trauma of Odessa/'world of truck drivers', etc., in its silent creeping stupidity, blind meaningless natural cycle of feeding, death, etc....?
Judy is not the enemy here, the extreme negative force is necessary and where dreams come from......, just that it cannot be positive, factual, possessed, dealt with once and for all, it is negative/inexistent, dreams of something better that is not 'there'.....
Judy is the missing element, cannot be gotten rid of, an is even the source of the 'solution', to the extent that there could ever be a solution for such unspeakable tragedies......
Have you read this mandarin translation of Jiāo Dài = to explain ?
Judy is the missing element, cannot be gotten rid of, an is even the source of the 'solution', to the extent that there could ever be a solution for such unspeakable tragedies......
Have you read this mandarin translation of Jiāo Dài = to explain ?
Nice, the negativity/Judy explains, this is exactly the path I am on.......the negative reaction, the taking a distance from life, etc. explains, gives the space to articulate the horror and reaction to the entire situation, the unfolding of the mystery, beginning with new clues, thinking through whats going on and what has happened, etc.....rather than the automatic momentum of life, directly trying to fix everything, happy ending, coming to rest, etc..
Although Judy is not 'the mother', the 'mother' is 'mother nature', black fire, sick/vomiting life, etc(as shown on Hawks, map); life is always sick because there is a negative reaction when trying to integrate yourself into life, because life is also negatively split by vortexs/voids, so that to try and just 'live' makes you sick, following the natural blind violence which doesnt think or dream, just lashes out, goes through cycles, etc., generation and corruption, Odessa life, what was driving Mr. C, etc., the black fire etc., .....like Mr. C or Diane walking down the hallway to kill the Blue Rose Task Force, the automatic momentum of nature.......'the mother' is 'Odessa life', without negativity, without dreams... Judy is 'inexistence', not positive life, not the 'mother' giving birth to BOB; and this word inexistence was so scary to Cooper, he was hiding from negativity/Judy, thats how he became Mr. C and Dougie, BOB etc., always looking to fully possess positively the woman, end it, come to rest like Dougie creeping around Las Vegas, etc.....mother controls this 'existence'/life, which is itself sick by default, split by atom bomb/negativity/Judy, so that to follow positivity/life is the evil and horror here, not Judy.....When Hawk pointed to the 'mother symbol', this is something like the excess of nature/positivity full control people with its blind stupid force, crushing dreams that dont exist, etc.; but the negative reaction, the diamond on top is split and controlled by 'mother nature', then Jeffries sets it straight, put 'Judy'/negativity back together, thus Cooper starts having the proper negative reactions to life/mother, rather than being driven by it). When Haws says 'you never want to know about that', pointing to the mother symbol, this is the waste of 25 years of Cooper in the red room, or Laura rotting in the positive 'happy' Odessa, accepting/taking the ring of the world of truck drivers, nature/facts, which destroyed her dreams.....
Judy is negative, that explains, the negative reaction of dreams explain, not knowing, not possessing etc., negativity gives the space to think, to identify something(for instance to bring Laura back to the site of her trauma), etc., but then problems and mystery spin off of this, its never said and done forever, investigation must follow, then learn something new you did not know about, etc.. no positive identification of Judy or 'superhero happy ending', etc....negative reaction opens up dreams, mystery, transcendence, love, sublime moments etc., to deny Judy, the pain involved in dealing with the horror of positivity/life, is to deny being properly human....
Fire walk with