Regarding "Coop's mistake": Well I had thought the big mistake he made was bringing Laura (Carrie) back to a house filled with horror for her. As I said in the cowboy thread, I thought Coop became too deadset on his mission and was no longer sensitive to Laura's or Diane's feelings. Bringing her back to the house, realizing it's not there, and then saying "what year is it?" also works as a superb critique of 21st century craving for reboots/nostalgia.
BUT! I just read the "sex magick" theory about drawing Judy into the Richard/Carrie world and destroying it while sacrificing Richard and Carrie. Read the Blood Sugar Sex Magic thread; some of Diane's visual motifs are undeniable references to sex magick. According to that theory, Cooper did NOT make a mistake. He accomplished his task, perhaps unkowingly, but still, mission accomplished.
Methinks Frost/Lynch wrote this with a number of interpretations being equally viable despite being in conflict. That's what I love!
I love that scene! Green Onions!
Which scene? The case files or the floor sweeping?
Green Onions = Floor Sweeping.
Lol don't know that term/association. Or am I missing something?
It's the title of the music playing while the guy is sweeping. Performed by Booker T & The MGs.
Genuinely surprised you don't know it; regarded as one of the all time classic instrumentals.
It's the title of the music playing while the guy is sweeping. Performed by Booker T & The MGs.
Genuinely surprised you don't know it; regarded as one of the all time classic instrumentals.
LOL Its been so long since I've seen the scene, I had forgotten there was any background music. As for the title, I don't recognize it, but that's not saying much. I'm not much good with names and titles. However, there's a good chance I would recognize it upon hearing it.
Thanks for the clarification. That's why you're lead detective! 😀
You are very welcome, detective! You are a fine addition to the team; I'm proud to serve beside you,.
"...to the point that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house..."
Screenshot, please.
Still no screenshot, then?
Ride dat pony, Detective! 🙂
Bugging me. So if Coop had to cross into another timeline (with "Diane") to find Laura Palmer in Odessa, TX, wouldn't he have had to cross back out with Laura to hit the correct timeline, at another set of coordinates? Or where he crossed in in the first place? Isn't that an uncharacteristic mistake for the anal-retentive Cooper? How many timelines are there? Why did "Diane" become "Linda" and Cooper remained "Cooper" (to some weird degree that he didn't associate himself with the label "Richard")? Weeks later, still stewing.
My interpretation of it was this:
Coop crossed to the other timeline or dimension because that is what the fireman told him to do (remember 430 and Richard and Linda) so we have to assume that the FIreman already knew we would have gotten to this at some point and that THIS IS exactly where Coop and Diane were meant to be. A lot of the people who watch the show seemed to forget that that was the Fireman's plan since the beginning: 430 ,Richard, Linda so Coop is not lost and the other personalities are not a mistake. He is exactly where he is meant to be.
this is the timeline/dimension where NOT ONLY he will find Laura but also where he will trap and destroy Judy. there is no reason for him to cross over again. This is where as per the plan he needs to be.
Once in this new reality Diane and Cooper undergo a ritual similar to the whore of Babylon ritual basically a sex ritual that attracts evil (see Aleister Crowley Moonchild or see The secret History of TP by Frost where he talks about the ritual carried out during the trinity test which supposedly is what created the Mother) therefore now attracts her as per the couple having sex in the loft and Mother appearing in the box. We can assume now almost for certain that Mother is attracted by sex and suffering (see rape and abuse in Laura)
Why did Diane become Linda? Because after the ritual and the arrival of judy in this world things started to change. Remember Cooper is not always cooper but definitely shares some traits with all the others: dougie, mr c, dougie 2, coop , richard...
Same goes for Diane. In this reality where Laura has been hidden (and her way too painful memory erased) and became Carrie Page, Diane is now Linda and Coop is Richard. Why does he remember Cooper? He doesnt really... he is slowly losing himself and his memories from the other reality... he is confused but one thing he remembers! he needs to find Laura. The only way to do that is to follow his instinct and "FIND LAURA" just like Leland told him in the red room not long before.
He finds her but the more time he spends in this reality the more he loses himself and the knowledge of time.
My personal interpretation of the ending is that this reality is meant to be destroyed together with Judy who is now trapped into it. The only way for this to work and destroy evil is if Laura gets to the house and realizes she is LAURA. This is important because Laura is the only one powerful enough to kill her but Judy has hidden Laura and changed her name so that Laura doesnt know why she was created anymore therefore she is useless.
Once she realizes who she is Judy is destroyed. But with her that whole reality is destroyed too! Because for the other reality( TWIN PEAKS reality ) to exist this one needs to disappear and with it Coop Laura Sarah Judy and the rest.
Love this. Thank you.
Bugging me. So if Coop had to cross into another timeline (with "Diane") to find Laura Palmer in Odessa, TX, wouldn't he have had to cross back out with Laura to hit the correct timeline, at another set of coordinates? Or where he crossed in in the first place? Isn't that an uncharacteristic mistake for the anal-retentive Cooper? How many timelines are there? Why did "Diane" become "Linda" and Cooper remained "Cooper" (to some weird degree that he didn't associate himself with the label "Richard")? Weeks later, still stewing.
My interpretation of it was this:
Coop crossed to the other timeline or dimension because that is what the fireman told him to do (remember 430 and Richard and Linda) so we have to assume that the FIreman already knew we would have gotten to this at some point and that THIS IS exactly where Coop and Diane were meant to be. A lot of the people who watch the show seemed to forget that that was the Fireman's plan since the beginning: 430 ,Richard, Linda so Coop is not lost and the other personalities are not a mistake. He is exactly where he is meant to be.
this is the timeline/dimension where NOT ONLY he will find Laura but also where he will trap and destroy Judy. there is no reason for him to cross over again. This is where as per the plan he needs to be.
Once in this new reality Diane and Cooper undergo a ritual similar to the whore of Babylon ritual basically a sex ritual that attracts evil (see Aleister Crowley Moonchild or see The secret History of TP by Frost where he talks about the ritual carried out during the trinity test which supposedly is what created the Mother) therefore now attracts her as per the couple having sex in the loft and Mother appearing in the box. We can assume now almost for certain that Mother is attracted by sex and suffering (see rape and abuse in Laura)
Why did Diane become Linda? Because after the ritual and the arrival of judy in this world things started to change. Remember Cooper is not always cooper but definitely shares some traits with all the others: dougie, mr c, dougie 2, coop , richard...
Same goes for Diane. In this reality where Laura has been hidden (and her way too painful memory erased) and became Carrie Page, Diane is now Linda and Coop is Richard. Why does he remember Cooper? He doesnt really... he is slowly losing himself and his memories from the other reality... he is confused but one thing he remembers! he needs to find Laura. The only way to do that is to follow his instinct and "FIND LAURA" just like Leland told him in the red room not long before.
He finds her but the more time he spends in this reality the more he loses himself and the knowledge of time.
My personal interpretation of the ending is that this reality is meant to be destroyed together with Judy who is now trapped into it. The only way for this to work and destroy evil is if Laura gets to the house and realizes she is LAURA. This is important because Laura is the only one powerful enough to kill her but Judy has hidden Laura and changed her name so that Laura doesnt know why she was created anymore therefore she is useless.
Once she realizes who she is Judy is destroyed. But with her that whole reality is destroyed too! Because for the other reality( TWIN PEAKS reality ) to exist this one needs to disappear and with it Coop Laura Sarah Judy and the rest.
This is a solid interpretation of what's going on I think. I agree that in the 430 world, which seems in many ways to be our world, to the point that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, Laura, Coop and Diane seem to be dragging their original personalities into this world, but that they're being stripped away and they're succumbing to the new identities. I agree totally about the differing trajectories of awakening in the final scene. Coop is devolving into Richard as Carrie is evolving into Laura.
I'm not sure I agree with the Judy being defeated thesis. It feels emotionally contrary to what we've seen. Laura's awakening isn't a moment of triumph, she's exposed to the horror that is the truth of her life. When the lights go out and we hear Sarah call to Laura, it feels as though all that's been defeated is the persona of Carrie. Laura doesn't seem liberated, and the last action of Judy's that we see is to draw Laura back into the cycle of pain.
There's an interesting theme in the Return of characters climbing through different levels of consciousness towards awakening, usually painful awakening.
Laura, having found who she is, seems to be passing on this information to Coop in the credit sequence.
Audrey seems to be going through the same process.
Audrey, I'm sure, as I've posted about before, is clawing her way towards the realization that she is a product of Sherilyn Fenn. That's Fenn's face she sees in the mirror. Given that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, are all the characters on a journey to discover that they're all fictional?
How did I miss the VHS tape?!?! Must have been too focused on the horse 🙁
Bugging me. So if Coop had to cross into another timeline (with "Diane") to find Laura Palmer in Odessa, TX, wouldn't he have had to cross back out with Laura to hit the correct timeline, at another set of coordinates? Or where he crossed in in the first place? Isn't that an uncharacteristic mistake for the anal-retentive Cooper? How many timelines are there? Why did "Diane" become "Linda" and Cooper remained "Cooper" (to some weird degree that he didn't associate himself with the label "Richard")? Weeks later, still stewing.
My interpretation of it was this:
Coop crossed to the other timeline or dimension because that is what the fireman told him to do (remember 430 and Richard and Linda) so we have to assume that the FIreman already knew we would have gotten to this at some point and that THIS IS exactly where Coop and Diane were meant to be. A lot of the people who watch the show seemed to forget that that was the Fireman's plan since the beginning: 430 ,Richard, Linda so Coop is not lost and the other personalities are not a mistake. He is exactly where he is meant to be.
this is the timeline/dimension where NOT ONLY he will find Laura but also where he will trap and destroy Judy. there is no reason for him to cross over again. This is where as per the plan he needs to be.
Once in this new reality Diane and Cooper undergo a ritual similar to the whore of Babylon ritual basically a sex ritual that attracts evil (see Aleister Crowley Moonchild or see The secret History of TP by Frost where he talks about the ritual carried out during the trinity test which supposedly is what created the Mother) therefore now attracts her as per the couple having sex in the loft and Mother appearing in the box. We can assume now almost for certain that Mother is attracted by sex and suffering (see rape and abuse in Laura)
Why did Diane become Linda? Because after the ritual and the arrival of judy in this world things started to change. Remember Cooper is not always cooper but definitely shares some traits with all the others: dougie, mr c, dougie 2, coop , richard...
Same goes for Diane. In this reality where Laura has been hidden (and her way too painful memory erased) and became Carrie Page, Diane is now Linda and Coop is Richard. Why does he remember Cooper? He doesnt really... he is slowly losing himself and his memories from the other reality... he is confused but one thing he remembers! he needs to find Laura. The only way to do that is to follow his instinct and "FIND LAURA" just like Leland told him in the red room not long before.
He finds her but the more time he spends in this reality the more he loses himself and the knowledge of time.
My personal interpretation of the ending is that this reality is meant to be destroyed together with Judy who is now trapped into it. The only way for this to work and destroy evil is if Laura gets to the house and realizes she is LAURA. This is important because Laura is the only one powerful enough to kill her but Judy has hidden Laura and changed her name so that Laura doesnt know why she was created anymore therefore she is useless.
Once she realizes who she is Judy is destroyed. But with her that whole reality is destroyed too! Because for the other reality( TWIN PEAKS reality ) to exist this one needs to disappear and with it Coop Laura Sarah Judy and the rest.
This is a solid interpretation of what's going on I think. I agree that in the 430 world, which seems in many ways to be our world, to the point that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, Laura, Coop and Diane seem to be dragging their original personalities into this world, but that they're being stripped away and they're succumbing to the new identities. I agree totally about the differing trajectories of awakening in the final scene. Coop is devolving into Richard as Carrie is evolving into Laura.
I'm not sure I agree with the Judy being defeated thesis. It feels emotionally contrary to what we've seen. Laura's awakening isn't a moment of triumph, she's exposed to the horror that is the truth of her life. When the lights go out and we hear Sarah call to Laura, it feels as though all that's been defeated is the persona of Carrie. Laura doesn't seem liberated, and the last action of Judy's that we see is to draw Laura back into the cycle of pain.
There's an interesting theme in the Return of characters climbing through different levels of consciousness towards awakening, usually painful awakening.
Laura, having found who she is, seems to be passing on this information to Coop in the credit sequence.
Audrey seems to be going through the same process.
Audrey, I'm sure, as I've posted about before, is clawing her way towards the realization that she is a product of Sherilyn Fenn. That's Fenn's face she sees in the mirror. Given that there's a copy of the Twin Peaks VHS in Carrie's house, are all the characters on a journey to discover that they're all fictional?
How did I miss the VHS tape?!?! Must have been too focused on the horse 🙁
“Non-existent!”
How did I miss the VHS tape?!?! Must have been too focused on the horse 🙁
Apparently this is not a TP VHS.
It looks like it might be a microwave snack with its contents on top of the box and a used paper towel stuffed into it, but who am I to spoil anyone else's theory?
Regarding "Coop's mistake": Well I had thought the big mistake he made was bringing Laura (Carrie) back to a house filled with horror for her. As I said in the cowboy thread, I thought Coop became too deadset on his mission and was no longer sensitive to Laura's or Diane's feelings. Bringing her back to the house, realizing it's not there, and then saying "what year is it?" also works as a superb critique of 21st century craving for reboots/nostalgia.
BUT! I just read the "sex magick" theory about drawing Judy into the Richard/Carrie world and destroying it while sacrificing Richard and Carrie. Read the Blood Sugar Sex Magic thread; some of Diane's visual motifs are undeniable references to sex magick. According to that theory, Cooper did NOT make a mistake. He accomplished his task, perhaps unkowingly, but still, mission accomplished.
Methinks Frost/Lynch wrote this with a number of interpretations being equally viable despite being in conflict. That's what I love!
Is the second scene of part 1. The scene with the Fireman in the future then? The Fireman telling Coop what mistakes he made and showing the consequences because then The Fireman says: ``It is in our house now``.
That can be after Carrie`s scream after hearing her name called out and Coop being transported back. Where Carrie went is a mystery off course. But if The Fireman and Coop allready knew ``it`` was in their house. Why not immediately go for the house.
Maybe because of what Hawk once said:`` If you confront the Black Lodge with imperfect courage it will annihilate your soul.``
Just a wild guess, but what if that were a VHS of the fictional soap opera that Lucy used to watch in Seasons 1-2? I can't recall what it was called but I've been rewatching the original series and it shows up briefly in almost every episode.
It looks like it might be a microwave snack with its contents on top of the box and a used paper towel stuffed into it, but who am I to spoil anyone else's theory?
Or it could be the wax lining of a cereal box with some cereal and a paper towel. Does anyone see a lion on the side of the video box? I think I do but not sure.
Fire walk with