Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
Hey Ric - my theory unfortunately is far less flashy! I believe Coop has merged with his doppleganger following return to the Red Room. His Lodge experience and being allies with Philip Gerard/MIKE has enabled him to do this. Hence his not-entirely-good/not-entirely-evil persona in the 'dream'.
Hi Luke,
He merged with his BOB-less doppelganger? What do you think Mr. C would be like without a soul-hijacking BOB hitchhiking inside?
I ask that because I think Dale's and Richard's personalities are quite different. I think Richard has quite a bit of Mr. C in him. =:-O
😉
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Hi Katey,
Can't be any clearer than that! 😉
I'm not going to give away that at first I wanted to write something from the notsuremyself-itdependsonhowyoudefinepeople-almostcertainlytwothirdsdifferent spectrum...
Hi katey,
Well, as you can see from the responses so far, the answers to this questions are all over the map! So, I wouldn't be too concerned about being unsure.
It wouldn't even surprise me to see some people change their minds, either! 😉
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A lot of people, based on the note she left, seem to feel that Diane did not make it through at 430 as herself, and has become Linda. But it seems that Diane is aware of this as a role she is playing. She asks, 'what happens now' as though she knows that there are certain actions that are expected, things to be done, almost as though to fulfill a prophecy, to meet expectations. But when she and Coop are having sex she feels that Mr C is still with him, part of him. Coop, the original good Coop is gone again, and she can't stomach reenacting in any way the rape she's already endured. Diane is unwilling to endure the mission if it means doing it with Mr C in any form, no matter how diluted. Is it future or is it past. Seen from the future of the next day, that scene makes sense as Linda finally realizing that she no longer recognizes the Richard she once loved. From the past she's all too able to recognize Mr C.
Vote: Different
Same: 4
Diff: 8
Undec: 1
Abstain: 1
Hi colin,
Thanks for the feedback.
So how did so much Mr. C end up in Richard?
😉
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I agree - there’s a massive change in Coop's personality, and Richard is more like a weird amalgamation of the three 'versions' of Cooper we've seen before.
I feel like the change from one Coop to another occurred specifically as he and Diane crossed over the 430 mile mark, at the electricity pylons – did anyone else notice the way he was driving? When Coop had just woken up from his coma and was driving Janey E and Sonny Jim to the casino, Sonny Jim commented on his great driving and I laughed because the steering wheel was going all over the place. When Coop and Diane are driving in the daytime, the wheel is moving the same way, then as soon as they cross over at the pylons and it’s night, the wheel is noticeably completely still.
The 430 mile mark also looked to me like the place where Bad Coop crashed his car and managed to prevent himself getting pulled back into the lodge, meaning the real Dougie went in instead. This would imply it’s a magical place where people and doppelgangers can be swapped over or relocated, facilitated by the electricity.
Could it be that Good Coop actually went back to Janey E and 'Richard' is the newest Tulpa created from the hair of Good Coop and the seed from Mr C? It would help explain why he acts like he does, with aspects of all the Coops - looking to help Laura like Good Coop, emotionlessly shooting the cowboys like Mr C would, and the kind of blankness of the other tulpa, Dougie.
I love reading everyone's theories, even though none of us will ever really know!
YES! Nico Law, you are on the case and promoted.
Hi Mike,
So, Richard is in our world, imagining Cooper?
Richard as Walter Mitty, fantasizing Dale Cooper! That's not bad either, considering Walter Mitty's daydreams don't really do too well, including dying by firing squad! 😉
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Sorta like this.. but I'm thinking more like Mulholland Drive where the last part of the movie was reality and most of the stuff that came before was in Betty's mind.
I think when we see Richard (who is confusing himself with Dale Cooper) come out of the motel room, then that is when we see reality happening. He has just dreamed/thought of the time that he had a tryst with Linda in the motel only to end with her leaving him.
I'm playing with the idea that he is obsessed with saving women that have suffered from domestic violence (Carrie Page the perfect example among many in this show). Who knows, maybe he just can't get out of his mind the actual famous murder that happened in Odessa that mirrored what we saw with Laura Palmer.
Hi Mike,
So, to sum up, Richard is an FBI agent who either dreamed up all of the Twin Peaks story, or was simply remembering an old case, while working on a different case in Odessa?
😉
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I am still struggling with potential time lapse or out of time sequence story telling. I get the feeling Andy with Fireman and Dale with Tea Pot Bowie both saw something not shown to us as the camera angle changed both times mid-shot.
I wonder if the car/hotel change at the end was suggestive of a time lapse.
I read an interesting idea about the sequencing of episodes 17 and 18 that shed a different light on the end.
Hi Charlie,
So you think Cooper was Cooper the whole time, even after, say, coming out of the Black Lodge, or after day turned to night at Mile 430, or after waking up in a different motel?
😉
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Oh, believe me, I never thought we would all agree - guess the "All" in my title is misleading and poorly chosen. Bad, bad, baaadd binoculars!
And, of course, the whole thread was set up to discuss the idea. 🙂
Anyway, should I put you down as Dale or undecided? Maybe even abstention. Hard to tell, really! 😉
hehe
Put me down as Dale, I guess.
Vote: Same
Same: 5
Diff: 7
Undec: 1
Abstain: 1
I actually have a theory of sorts about this--that the whole "kill two birds with one stone" is to MAKE SURE THAT "RICHARD" IN ODESSA REMEMBERS HE IS COOPER.
Boy those caps are loud, sorry for that.
Something happened to throw Diane and Cooper into bed in Odessa and "Richard" wakes up with his identity intact as Dale Cooper. Not the sprightly, happy Dale we loved, but that was already changing in the Sheriff's station anyway. He's a lot more focused. I thought it was fascinating that Clint Eastwood's daughter played the waitress in the Judy's Diner--because Cooper was giving off an Eastwood kind of vibe to me. He has to remember he is Dale so that he can help Carrie remember she is Laura. That's the two birds: remember he is Cooper/help Carrie remember she is Laura.
Maybe.
Hi cyndee,
Very interesting. When do you think Diane and Dale were thrown into bed? Did the whole drive to Mile 430 and the Edge-of-Night transition not really happen?
And because he wasn't able to save Laura in the Twin-verse we all know and love, Dale gets a second chance in the Richard-verse?
😉
- /< /\ /> -
I feel like the change from one Coop to another occurred specifically as he and Diane crossed over the 430 mile mark, at the electricity pylons – did anyone else notice the way he was driving? When Coop had just woken up from his coma and was driving Janey E and Sonny Jim to the casino, Sonny Jim commented on his great driving and I laughed because the steering wheel was going all over the place. When Coop and Diane are driving in the daytime, the wheel is moving the same way, then as soon as they cross over at the pylons and it’s night, the wheel is noticeably completely still.
The 430 mile mark also looked to me like the place where Bad Coop crashed his car and managed to prevent himself getting pulled back into the lodge, meaning the real Dougie went in instead. This would imply it’s a magical place where people and doppelgangers can be swapped over or relocated, facilitated by the electricity.
Could it be that Good Coop actually went back to Janey E and 'Richard' is the newest Tulpa created from the hair of Good Coop and the seed from Mr C? It would help explain why he acts like he does, with aspects of all the Coops - looking to help Laura like Good Coop, emotionlessly shooting the cowboys like Mr C would, and the kind of blankness of the other tulpa, Dougie.
I love reading everyone's theories, even though none of us will ever really know!
I agree with the spirit of this, if not all the details. I don't discount that Coop actually went to Vegas, leaving the mission to his Tulpa....but that my be just my innate wish for his character to have a happy life.
I happen to think the driving scene to the 4:30 mark takes place in the 1960s. The occupants of the old car which arrives at the old motel are Richard and Linda. That's not to say Coop and Diane are not making the same journey with the intent to cross over in present day, they are, but we are not witnessing that.
When Coop leaves the motel (now in present day) everything is different, including him. Has he merged with Richard? Has Richard replaced him, with Coop now in the past replacing Richard? What happened to Diane?
For lack of a better term, the occurrence at 430 is the loop point in the story.
The only problem with this is that Cooper quite pointedly says DIANE before they start making out in the motel, and she doesn't correct him or look startled.
I re-watched last night and I agree with you. I missed that he actually called her Diane and she called him Coop once. After my initial viewing, I thought they did not refer to each other by name at all.
I still think something is up with the vehicle/motel/payphone clearly being from the 1960's. I still believe that scene was in the past, as if some sort of loop is occurring.
No, I don't think he's being punished. Just a consequence of the universe being changed. Sort of, as you mentioned, an experiment gone wrong. I think he somehow caused a ripple effect that's damaged reality, or he's being resisted by Judy. Either way, it's not going well.
Nothing to do with Mr C. I don't even think Mr C is an issue with anyone, not now.
Sam, I'm not sure that Cooper did anything wrong--I think he was supposed to "wake up" Carrie and he did. Something is totally wrong with the world, but it always has been right? At least since episode 8's events. Judy issue is certainly not resolved, if it ever can be, but I suspect the "horrible awful story" that Sarah talks about needs some kind of resolution and that's the BIG story that hasn't ended yet. More and more, I think we have not seen the last of this tale.
Hi cyndee,
Season 4? Was Part 18 a cliffhanger, then?
To be continued! Same Bat-time! Same Bat-channel!! 😉
Or was it simply a quintessential Lynch ending?
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Hi Sam,
So why did Dale's personality change? Because he's now in the warped world he accidentally created? (Trapped! In a World He Never Made! ;-))
Do you think if he somehow saves Laura in the Richard reality, he would return to the Harry-Truman-nose-tweaking, free-Tibet, coffee-and-cherry-pie-junkie Dale we all know and love?
Richard seems to me to be much more film noir Sam Spade than Special Agent Dale Cooper.
😉
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I know it all seems very glib and straightforward when it's set out like this but I haven't yet seen another set of ideas that takes care of pretty much everything that's happened. That's not to say I'm hopelessly wrong, either. I'm open to ideas and have no real stake in this one. I'd love to know the "truth" as much as anyone, so my suggestions aren't something I'd make a religion out of. ?
What would we call such a religion?
What would we call a religion that worships twin peaks? What would we call the followers? Peaksies?
Crazy.
😉
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To me it depends upon how one defines (I)dentity. I think Cooper's sense of self is there but Richard is a separate identity that is gradually replacing, no suppressing might be better word to use, Coop's (I). Can it ever completely suppress it fully? Not sure about that. Carrie seemed to have a Laura trigger and dreams could also be a space in which Coop's memories would likely surface if he loses his (I) and gains Richard's. That isn't to say that I think his (their) situation is akin to what used to be termed multiple personality disorder. This is more like many worlds-interpretation if one was able to shift from one possible world (universe) to another. Or, be sent there by a cosmically powerful being like Judy. That is to say Richard is different from Coop in that nurture and his identity forming environment, experiences, etc. were different than Coop's. Coop has awoken in Richard's life along with some of Richard's traits and perhaps memories, but it's not the same as showing up and replacing Dougie in his life. That is to say they are different yet the same.
I actually have a theory of sorts about this--that the whole "kill two birds with one stone" is to MAKE SURE THAT "RICHARD" IN ODESSA REMEMBERS HE IS COOPER.
Boy those caps are loud, sorry for that.
Something happened to throw Diane and Cooper into bed in Odessa and "Richard" wakes up with his identity intact as Dale Cooper. Not the sprightly, happy Dale we loved, but that was already changing in the Sheriff's station anyway. He's a lot more focused. I thought it was fascinating that Clint Eastwood's daughter played the waitress in the Judy's Diner--because Cooper was giving off an Eastwood kind of vibe to me. He has to remember he is Dale so that he can help Carrie remember she is Laura. That's the two birds: remember he is Cooper/help Carrie remember she is Laura.
Maybe.
Hi cyndee,
Very interesting. When do you think Diane and Dale were thrown into bed? Did the whole drive to Mile 430 and the Edge-of-Night transition not really happen?
And because he wasn't able to save Laura in the Twin-verse we all know and love, Dale gets a second chance in the Richard-verse?
😉
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Pretty much, Ric.
So let's say the entities (souls what have you) we know as Dale and Diane also had an existence as Linda and Richard in Carrie Page's dimension. Dale and Diane cross over into it at 430 and this is an opportunity that is open to them after Dale opens the door in the Great White Northern (I think this is "real" as anything like episode 8, it's all real). They just know what to do--they are supposed to to into the motel and have sex. They know that like Andy knows what to do with Naido.
Dale keeps his identity when he wakes up but he is Richard (I'm probably changing my vote now if your perspective is that Richard is a different personality, ugh sorry). It's just that Richard is a variation of Cooper in a different dimension--they are almost the same person. Now "Richard" identifies as Agent Cooper. If there was a season 4, he'd probably be running into people who knew him as Richard and thought he was losing his mind or suffering from MPD. I suppose it is possible that everyone in Odessa is seeing a different face and body than we are in Cooper/Richard but that seems overly messy and complicated even for this show--especially since his encounter with Carrie only makes sense if she looks like Laura.
To me it depends upon how one defines (I)dentity. I think Cooper's sense of self is there but Richard is a separate identity that is gradually replacing, no suppressing might be better word to use, Coop's (I). Can it ever completely suppress it fully? Not sure about that. Carrie seemed to have a Laura trigger and dreams could also be a space in which Coop's memories would likely surface if he loses his (I) and gains Richard's. That isn't to say that I think his (their) situation is akin to what used to be termed multiple personality disorder. This is more like many worlds-interpretation if one was able to shift from one possible world (universe) to another. Or, be sent there by a cosmically powerful being like Judy. That is to say Richard is different from Coop in that nurture and his identity forming environment, experiences, etc. were different than Coop's. Coop has awoken in Richard's life along with some of Richard's traits and perhaps memories, but it's not the same as showing up and replacing Dougie in his life. That is to say they are different yet the same.
Hi Caoimhín,
Thanks for chiming in, Caoimhín. 😉
So Dale (either on his own volition or kidnapped by Judy) has now done a BOB-in-the-doppelganger maneuver on Poor Richard? (Not that Dale would harass his host in any way like BOB did in creating Mr. C, of course. ;-))
But when it comes to the Richard vs Dale identity - which came first?
Did Zhuangzi dream the butterfly, or did the butterfly dream Zhuangzi?
😉
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Going back to brothers (and names)...
All of the new sets of brothers in S3 are almost like matching sets. The Fuscos, the Mitchums, the Truman(s). Maybe this was foreshadowing for Dale and Richard. They are similar, even related, but not the same.
Now pondering the significance of the name, Richard. Because names are super important in the season and of course there's already an important Richard--Richard Horne. Who is (probably) bad Coop's son. So how does that play out?
Fire walk with 
