I think a lot of audiences are struggling with Lynch not being interested in conventional storytelling things that audiences are accustomed to. There's another thread here criticizing Bob's demise as anti-climactic, and really this is the same discussion, because both were handled in the same scene with a similar mentality. Lynch actually gives us a final confrontation scene, but it is intentionally silly, with the introduction of a character with a super powerful pile driver fist covered in a green gardening glove. I mean the entire character of Freddie was clearly intended to be ludicrous, right down to the fact that they hired a youtube accent impersonator to play him and peppered his dialogue with outdated cockney phrases. Don't try to tell me that wasn't intended to be absurd. Lynch took the final confrontation everyone was expecting and turned it into a joke, because he was interested in something else.
The only time I can think of Lynch ever being interested in a classic final confrontation type scene with a hero and villain was in Blue Velvet, and he's become less and less interested in that as his career has gone along.
In the grand scheme of the spirit world a doppelganger would have to be a fairly minor entity. I thought Mr. C's story got more and more goofy and much less threatening as the series went on. What started with the stark scenes at Buela's and Darya's murder ultimately morphed into texting, arm-wrestling with Cousin Hogwallop watching, and being completely out-maneuvered by Phillip Jeffries. Whatever his plans, he was easily captured and placed at the location of his demise. At the end, he was just transport to get Bob to Freddie.
Mr. C. was always a punk and he met a punk's fate.
Just like his son.
It reminded me of the No Country for Old Men scene where someone you think is pivotal just gets disposed of. I think it's meaningful and I liked it. It's more realistic. Sometimes it's not the hero that saves the day and sometimes the villain isn't all powerful (like getting hit by a car at an intersection, also in NCFOM). I think the other way would have been too much for Lynch/Frost, that some lone superhero Dale Cooper miraculously and against all odds saves the girl and the world from humanity's worst threats. Glad they didn't go that route.
Now, the one punch man scene with Freddie getting into a fight with a floating ball, I'm not sure I'll ever really appreciate that both because of the effects and the absurdity of it. It made BOB seem particularly weak and ineffective (maybe he was weakened), particularly in comparison to Sarah's possession, the Woodsmen, and the Experiment. But it did allow an inconsequential character that few probably cared about with probably less than 15 minutes of screen time to play a very big role.
Re: No County for Old Men - I agree (also Becky's presumed death at the hand of Steven would take it even further, but we don't know if she's alive or dead). That caused quite an uproar at the time as well.
Re: Freddie - don't you think the scene and how things played out was intentionally absurd (like it or not)? Bob's power was a mirage in the grander scheme, IMO (as Sonia has argued in more detail). He's nothing compared to his mother (Experiment/Judy - whom I think is responsible for the confoundment of Coop, (Diane) and Laura in the "Odessa universe").
For the sake of symmetry, I like to think Mr. C wanted the same thing as his counterpart Cooper: to find Judy (for more or less opposite reasons).
I agree. We found out that they really were mirror images even with regard to motivation.
Probably, but he didn't seem to know the name "Judy. " He must have known there was a very negative force, but didn't seem to have enough information about it. His efforts to find a key portal were trigger by the Lodge' s efforts to bring him back there. I think he just really didn't want to give up his earthly life to go to hang around in some limbo doing nothing. He was probably terrified at the thought of it, but of course we don't get to see him scared of anything.
I don't see his quest as a real mirror image of Cooper's. Bad Coop's interests are smaller and more self-serving.
I actually felt bad for him ?
I found it interesting that when he went into the white lodge and was caged, the Fireman had an image of the Palmer house (where Judy may have been) on a view screen. The Fireman made the view screen shift to the spot outside the Sheriff's station, to where he then sent Mr. C. It made me think Mr. C thought he would be heading to Judy when he entered the portal.
Yes, I think that's exactly what happened.
I enjoyed Lucy unloading on Mister C, but there should have been more to his demise. It was a pretty simple end for a main character of the season. I agree with many of you who said that he deserved better. It seemed very rushed.
I really think he was intentionally given short shrift. Whether you choose to resent this or think it was clever, Lynch & Co. played a trick on us. They made us think defeating Mr. C was the big quest at stake. By "rushing" his death scene (and generally make him look clueless and pathetic while the Giant effortlessly shuffled him around the time-space continuum), they intentionally diminished him.
Message: Mr. C was a contemptible little demon and who wasn't as much of a big-shot as he thought he was. We wash our hands of him.
Personally, I dig it.
It's something GRRM did throughout A Song of Ice and Fire.
And to be fair, they also established back in Part 8 that Mr. C could simply be gunned down. The Woodsmen can revive him, but he's ultimately only a doppelganger of a human being and is similarly vulnerable.
If you believe that Lynch is a believer in Dualism, then you come up with the idea that in our Good vs Evil game of chess (or stratego is a better analogy sometimes), Evil Cooper and Dale Cooper are comparable pieces. Additionally, Laura/Bob and Fireman/Mother.
What I took out of the white lodge scene with Evil Cooper was a foreshadow of the level difference we see between Dale and Mother later on. There really is no true competition between them. Mother, like Fireman are much more 'powerful' pieces and thus easily defeat the lesser piece. Now this is not to say they can't be defeated by a lesser piece, but 1 one 1 they are no match up. This is why Laura is so important to the final goal.
Just my 2 cents on justifying how Evil Cooper can take one to the head from Lucy or why the creator's worst character (Reggie) can beat down Bob.
I have admired shows that occasionally give a more realistic impression of how main characters die, few are going to die facing their mortal enemy or saving a damsel. When is the last time you saw a super hero die in a robbery while eating at Denny's? or a major baddie die of a car wreak. Just not poetic or climatic enough for the views/readers.
If you believe that Lynch is a believer in Dualism, then you come up with the idea that in our Good vs Evil game of chess (or stratego is a better analogy sometimes), Evil Cooper and Dale Cooper are comparable pieces. Additionally, Laura/Bob and Fireman/Mother.
I agree, and think that's part of what's going on with Dale's despair there at the end. He lost half his life to a quest that was never actually achievable. Ultimately, he was Judy's plaything. We see this perfectly reflected in Mr. C, whom the Fireman handles effortlessly.
Laura -- through some means we don't understand, because we don't really know what she is -- might have a fighting chance to thwart Judy. I think her scream gives a flicker of hope in what otherwise seems like a moment of complete cosmic failure.
At first I was dismayed with the quick demise of Mr. C and Bob, but on reflection, and after reading some excellent opinions on here, I think they worked just fine.
And I quite liked the Giant's quiet power in capturing and shifting Mr. C around. Total control.
Nice to see where Major Briggs ended up, too.
At first I was dismayed with the quick demise of Mr. C and Bob, but on reflection, and after reading some excellent opinions on here, I think they worked just fine.
And I quite liked the Giant's quiet power in capturing and shifting Mr. C around. Total control.
Nice to see where Major Briggs ended up, too.
Yes. I loved seeing Briggs' floating head in the White Lodge (presumably). That is powerful stuff!
If you believe that Lynch is a believer in Dualism, then you come up with the idea that in our Good vs Evil game of chess (or stratego is a better analogy sometimes), Evil Cooper and Dale Cooper are comparable pieces. Additionally, Laura/Bob and Fireman/Mother.
I agree, and think that's part of what's going on with Dale's despair there at the end. He lost half his life to a quest that was never actually achievable. Ultimately, he was Judy's plaything. We see this perfectly reflected in Mr. C, whom the Fireman handles effortlessly.
Laura -- through some means we don't understand, because we don't really know what she is -- might have a fighting chance to thwart Judy. I think her scream gives a flicker of hope in what otherwise seems like a moment of complete cosmic failure.
I don't disagree with your interpretation of Coop's 'failed quest,' my only problem with it is it makes Coop, Gordon, Albert and the rest look like a bunch of dumb boobs. Like they're trying to defeat ancient evil or death with a water pistol. It sort of undercuts the entire mythology too.
This is why the ending is so dissatisfying to me.
I don't disagree with your interpretation of Coop's 'failed quest,' my only problem with it is it makes Coop, Gordon, Albert and the rest look like a bunch of dumb boobs. Like they're trying to defeat ancient evil or death with a water pistol. It sort of undercuts the entire mythology too.
This is why the ending is so dissatisfying to me.
Yeah, that strikes a chord with me. It's hard to feel we were given even a fair sense of what "the plan" was. Okay, somehow Laura Palmer is special, and if she isn't murdered, she can be some sort of force for good against this evil monolith, Judy? That seems to be the general idea, but there just aren't anywhere near enough "hows" and "whys" in that.
One thing I CAN'T go for is that this was just a sentimental quest to save Laura Palmer and spare her family/town the painful repercussions of her murder - because that's such obvious folly. You don't go around doing possibly catastrophic things to the space-time continuum to save one murdered girl out of all the world's murdered girls - just because, you know, you have a soft spot for her.
So that brings us back to the first explanation, which isn't backed up by anything besides Laura's face being wafted off to earth in a soap bubble. That and the Log Lady's assurance that "Laura is the one." Right.
Like a lot of people, I've been working on getting over the feeling that the finale was emotionally unsatisfying - and I'm getting there. But is it even more technically unsatisfying? Maybe.
If you believe that Lynch is a believer in Dualism, then you come up with the idea that in our Good vs Evil game of chess (or stratego is a better analogy sometimes), Evil Cooper and Dale Cooper are comparable pieces. Additionally, Laura/Bob and Fireman/Mother.
I agree, and think that's part of what's going on with Dale's despair there at the end. He lost half his life to a quest that was never actually achievable. Ultimately, he was Judy's plaything. We see this perfectly reflected in Mr. C, whom the Fireman handles effortlessly.
Laura -- through some means we don't understand, because we don't really know what she is -- might have a fighting chance to thwart Judy. I think her scream gives a flicker of hope in what otherwise seems like a moment of complete cosmic failure.
I don't disagree with your interpretation of Coop's 'failed quest,' my only problem with it is it makes Coop, Gordon, Albert and the rest look like a bunch of dumb boobs. Like they're trying to defeat ancient evil or death with a water pistol. It sort of undercuts the entire mythology too.
This is why the ending is so dissatisfying to me.
I'm not sure Dale had a detailed plan. He's an intuitive, and he was likely following his intuition much of the time.
Bringing Laura to the house is a good example. I don't think he knew exactly what it'd accomplish, just that it seemed to make sense. Then when it turned out to neither a good result nor a bad one but just completely irrelevant, he's baffled. Of course, the scream seems to indicate he woke Laura up and achieved...something.
If you're looking for a magic sword for the hero to wield against the monster, that's Laura. We just didn't get the chance to see the result.
And I don't think it undercuts the mythology. I feel like what happened was that this season was a major expansion of the mythology. The natural result was that forces like BOB and Mr. C dropped to the second-tier. It's probably important to note that Lynch's work is always deeply personal. Whatever ideas/demons/etc. Lynch was wrestling with 20-odd years ago that led to the conception of BOB aren't the same things he's interested in exploring now (aging and death seem to be big ones).
I don't disagree with your interpretation of Coop's 'failed quest,' my only problem with it is it makes Coop, Gordon, Albert and the rest look like a bunch of dumb boobs. Like they're trying to defeat ancient evil or death with a water pistol. It sort of undercuts the entire mythology too.
This is why the ending is so dissatisfying to me.
Yeah, that strikes a chord with me. It's hard to feel we were given even a fair sense of what "the plan" was. Okay, somehow Laura Palmer is special, and if she isn't murdered, she can be some sort of force for good against this evil monolith, Judy? That seems to be the general idea, but there just aren't anywhere near enough "hows" and "whys" in that.
One thing I CAN'T go for is that this was just a sentimental quest to save Laura Palmer and spare her family/town the painful repercussions of her murder - because that's such obvious folly. You don't go around doing possibly catastrophic things to the space-time continuum to save one murdered girl out of all the world's murdered girls - just because, you know, you have a soft spot for her.
So that brings us back to the first explanation, which isn't backed up by anything besides Laura's face being wafted off to earth in a soap bubble. That and the Log Lady's assurance that "Laura is the one." Right.
Like a lot of people, I've been working on getting over the feeling that the finale was emotionally unsatisfying - and I'm getting there. But is it even more technically unsatisfying? Maybe.
I hear ya. My personal resolution is coming along too. It's something like, "I loved the ride, but hated the destination." I can appreciate many many aspects of the season, especially the fine actors, yet still hate the ending.
Fire walk with