Here's my initial thoughts.
1. Ep 17, was off the chains awesome. I was so pumped for 18.
2. What the HELL happened in 18? Rather than just blasting it, I'm open to hearing what others took away from it. I prefer stuff that was shown and not theories please.
- what happened with Diane and coop
- what was up with the diane looking at diane in the car
- who was Richard and Linda (when coop woke up)?
- what was everything with Laura and coop going to peaks and to the house?
- what was said in the house before Laura screamed? I couldn't hear it.
- did Laura realize who she was when the show ended?
3. Uhhhh what happened with audrey?
4. Was everything in it bar just made up?
5. Does someone want to explain what was going on in the fireman's house when he put the bad coop in peaks (I assume they put him there so he could be killed).
I'll be honest. My feeling after 18 was disappointment, but I'm open to listening to insight to change that.
If Laura never existed and/or never murdered, then neither Cooper nor the FBI would never have been in TP in the first place - that being said, Cooper would not even know the name Laura Palmer or know her house. Basically, in my opinion this nullifies the finale
Welp, good chat.
Thanks guys.
Here's my initial thoughts.
1. Ep 17, was off the chains awesome. I was so pumped for 18.
2. What the HELL happened in 18? Rather than just blasting it, I'm open to hearing what others took away from it. I prefer stuff that was shown and not theories please.
- what happened with Diane and coop
- what was up with the diane looking at diane in the car
- who was Richard and Linda (when coop woke up)?
- what was everything with Laura and coop going to peaks and to the house?
- what was said in the house before Laura screamed? I couldn't hear it.
- did Laura realize who she was when the show ended?
3. Uhhhh what happened with audrey?
4. Was everything in it bar just made up?
5. Does someone want to explain what was going on in the fireman's house when he put the bad coop in peaks (I assume they put him there so he could be killed).
I'll be honest. My feeling after 18 was disappointment, but I'm open to listening to insight to change that.
Laura heard her mother calling her, from when she raced down the stairs after not finding her on the morning after her death. Or it was Waldo the bird.
Here's my initial thoughts.
1. Ep 17, was off the chains awesome. I was so pumped for 18.
2. What the HELL happened in 18? Rather than just blasting it, I'm open to hearing what others took away from it. I prefer stuff that was shown and not theories please.
- what happened with Diane and coop
- what was up with the diane looking at diane in the car
- who was Richard and Linda (when coop woke up)?
- what was everything with Laura and coop going to peaks and to the house?
- what was said in the house before Laura screamed? I couldn't hear it.
- did Laura realize who she was when the show ended?
3. Uhhhh what happened with audrey?
4. Was everything in it bar just made up?
5. Does someone want to explain what was going on in the fireman's house when he put the bad coop in peaks (I assume they put him there so he could be killed).
I'll be honest. My feeling after 18 was disappointment, but I'm open to listening to insight to change that.
A few attempts I think I understand:
Diane in the car may not have been Diane, but Linda decades earlier, seeing a tulpa.
Richard and Linda were who we saw driving together in the old car, arriving at the old motel (where she saw herself standing there).
Cooper & Laura (Carrie) to Twin Peaks...that gets troublesome. It may have been an altered version of Cooper, or another tulpa, or ???, but likely an unintroduced storyline used as a cliffhanger.
Laura (Carrie) screamed as she, presumably, recalled memories hearing "Laura", the sound of her mother calling her to breakfast those many years before, the morning she disappeared (S1)
Laura (Carrie) may have remembered her youth at the end.
Audrey is a mystery. Why Lynch dropped her story after her dance is his decision. Nothing I can add.
I wondered, too, why Mr. C was sent via the White Lodge (Fireman's digs) to Twin Peaks...just didn't see any reason for that. He can drive.
I don't have answers for most of your questions. They're good questions and I think if you stay with the forum for some time to come, you will get a lot of ideas that may improve you feeling about the possibilities. It's pretty murky now, but after some time it will improve. I'm glad you asked these questions; I was thinking many of the same things.
Check out the 2nd Diane very carefully... anyone else see similarities to the Philip Jeffries gatekeeper/bosomy woman in Ep. 15? I've watched the scene several times and am really thinking that is not Diane.
Check out the 2nd Diane very carefully... anyone else see similarities to the Philip Jeffries gatekeeper/bosomy woman in Ep. 15? I've watched the scene several times and am really thinking that is not Diane.
I noticed that too. Especially when they crossed over (pardon the pun) at 430 miles, the nighttime Diane looked a lot like the gatekeeper.
Check out the 2nd Diane very carefully... anyone else see similarities to the Philip Jeffries gatekeeper/bosomy woman in Ep. 15? I've watched the scene several times and am really thinking that is not Diane.
Which one? The one who peeped out at motel's carport? Or someone else?
Regarding Audrey, I cannot answer your question but there was a brief nod to her in the finale:
Cooper is in the red room seeing the Evolution of the Arm and it says "Is this the story of the little girl who lives down the lane?" which was Audrey's line to Charlie.
Right - the one who let Bad Coop into Jeffries room and is standing in the carport at the end of the episode. If so.. that's pretty messed up lol.
Here's my initial thoughts.
1. Ep 17, was off the chains awesome. I was so pumped for 18.
2. What the HELL happened in 18? Rather than just blasting it, I'm open to hearing what others took away from it. I prefer stuff that was shown and not theories please.
- what happened with Diane and coop
- what was up with the diane looking at diane in the car
- who was Richard and Linda (when coop woke up)?
- what was everything with Laura and coop going to peaks and to the house?
- what was said in the house before Laura screamed? I couldn't hear it.
- did Laura realize who she was when the show ended?
3. Uhhhh what happened with audrey?
4. Was everything in it bar just made up?
5. Does someone want to explain what was going on in the fireman's house when he put the bad coop in peaks (I assume they put him there so he could be killed).
I'll be honest. My feeling after 18 was disappointment, but I'm open to listening to insight to change that.
A few attempts I think I understand:
Diane in the car may not have been Diane, but Linda decades earlier, seeing a tulpa.
Richard and Linda were who we saw driving together in the old car, arriving at the old motel (where she saw herself standing there).
Cooper & Laura (Carrie) to Twin Peaks...that gets troublesome. It may have been an altered version of Cooper, or another tulpa, or ???, but likely an unintroduced storyline used as a cliffhanger.
Laura (Carrie) screamed as she, presumably, recalled memories hearing "Laura", the sound of her mother calling her to breakfast those many years before, the morning she disappeared (S1)
Laura (Carrie) may have remembered her youth at the end.
Audrey is a mystery. Why Lynch dropped her story after her dance is his decision. Nothing I can add.
I wondered, too, why Mr. C was sent via the White Lodge (Fireman's digs) to Twin Peaks...just didn't see any reason for that. He can drive.
I don't have answers for most of your questions. They're good questions and I think if you stay with the forum for some time to come, you will get a lot of ideas that may improve you feeling about the possibilities. It's pretty murky now, but after some time it will improve. I'm glad you asked these questions; I was thinking many of the same things.
Thanks for the answers (and attempts at answers).
18 was somewhat disappointing compared to 17 still. I didn't expect closure, but I felt 17 was as close as we would get. Feels like 18 undid that a bit.
@Yambag021 - While my opinion normally differs from yours in previous posts, I do feel that gut punch you too seem to have felt from Part 18. It's a dizzying experience. My initial feelings are still settling, but there are moments I was immediately moved by, but there are other moments still immersed in questions needing to be answered via interpretation, before I am able to sustain a thoughtful opinion. I'll start by answering some of your questions you asked based on my observations. I would like to add that my observations are based on the conversations I had with my friends immediately after watching The Return, and are not based on theories I have yet to read on this forum:
What happened with Diane and Coop?
Before they teleport/transition into night time after establishing they are exactly 430 miles away from what I am assuming is the Twin Peaks sheriff’s station, the Great Northern, or the Sycamore Tree Black Lodge entrance, I think Cooper and Diane are off to defeat Judy. I think that Cooper, alongside other characters in the show like the Log Lady, Hawk, and the Fireman, believes that the goodness contained in Laura is the key to defeating Judy.
What was up with the Diane looking at Diane in the car?
I’m not quite sure, but I was brought back to Diane’s similar reaction to the woodsmen in the episode where Bill Hastings dies. She seems unfazed by it. I assume that one of the Diane’s was a doppleganger.
Who was Richard and Linda (when Coop woke up)?
I haven’t explored this question yet. I feel like I would need to watch Part 18 again in order to have a developed answer.
What was everything with Laura and Coop going to Peaks and to the house?
I feel like Cooper was trying to enable Laura to have some peace; to face her trauma and possibly help Sarah Palmer - that somehow Laura is the one. I interpret that phrase to mean the one to defeating the evil that has spiraled out of control in Twin Peaks.
What was said in the house before Laura screamed? I couldn't hear it.
I heard the word “Laura”. I assumed it was Sarah Palmer screaming it, but that was just my initial take. I am open to other possibilities.
Did Laura realize who she was when the show ended?
That’s how I interpreted it.
What happened with Audrey?
I think she is dead.
Was everything in it bar just made up?
I interpreted all of the loose threads discussed at the Roadhouse as evidence that the soap opera drama we were immersed in during Seasons 1 and 2 are still prevalent in Twin Peaks, they are just no longer the focal point.
I do believe Billy to be the drunk in the jail cell. I feel like I will be able to gather a more developed interpretation of who Billy is and why he is important upon repeat viewings. I am curious to know what specific relationship he might have with Chad.
Does someone want to explain what was going on in the fireman's house when he put the bad coop in peaks (I assume they put him there so he could be killed)?
I think your assumption is accurate. That’s how I viewed it anyways.
I think it was a huge~grand plan of "fireman" to kill Bob and sending Mr.C "Bad Coop" to the Sherif station was one conclusion of it. Besides that, I don't have a clew either.
i have read before that doppelgangers are omens of ones death, considering the prominence of the tulpas this season that may be irrelevant?
but im pretty sure this is the first time somebody saw their doppleganger (aside from dale in the lodge at the end of season 2)
im seeing a lot of theories about diane becoming linda, so maybe her seeing her doppelganger was a sign that she didnt abandon coop in his mission, but that she was no more?
idk, idk nothing anymore after ep18.
i would like to echo the confusion on mr c in the white lodge.
what was he even doing this whole season? he just seemed to be wondering around. the fireman seemed to have him locked up in a cage, why release him?
and i dont remembers but didnt phillip jefferies say that judy was trying to kill mr c?
Here's my initial thoughts.
2. What the HELL happened in 18? Rather than just blasting it, I'm open to hearing what others took away from it. I prefer stuff that was shown and not theories please.
- what happened with Diane and coop
- what was up with the diane looking at diane in the car
- who was Richard and Linda (when coop woke up)?
- what was everything with Laura and coop going to peaks and to the house?
- what was said in the house before Laura screamed? I couldn't hear it.
- did Laura realize who she was when the show ended?
5. Does someone want to explain what was going on in the fireman's house when he put the bad coop in peaks (I assume they put him there so he could be killed).
I'll be honest. My feeling after 18 was disappointment, but I'm open to listening to insight to change that.
First off, these are just some first thoughts on it, but I thought episode 18 was great, very honest, and this was the happy ending, a truthful 'happy ending', what would happen if Cooper went back, erased the murder of Laura, fixed things up with Diane, acted as 'old coop' from the original series and accomplished everything as if there was no tragedy, returned from a coma, woke up, and 'got everything done', 18 is the result of that, trying to smooth over everything we know and 'move on'.....a true testament to taking Twin Peaks seriously; and this is a show about huge tragedies, people going mad, there is no way thats going to be 'smoothed over' so easily...thus episode 18....playing a love song, when everyone knows the woodsmen are right under the surface with their chant.....18 is about what would happen if everyone tried to be 'eraserhead' and ignore all of the pain and problems involved with Twin Peaks, forcing a happy ending on a tragic situation that no one ever took seriously, and this is what Laura screamed about at the end, blind stupid life not fit for dreams
Agent Cooper returned like a zombie as if he had never gone mad, wanting to fix everything as if he could be like he was before he got to Twin Peaks and became mad, he wanted to do 'eraserhead', and it did not work. Cooper 'returning' was this Cooper going back and trying to accomplish the best things he could, fix everything, but surprise was that convenience store was right around the corner...where MIKE took him and that Mr. C's fire is still burning bright in the red room..., those types of 'blue rose' things are not 'fixed', but just overcome with all seriousness, by giving up the attachment to the abomination of life that led to those things in the first place, the attachment Cooper that woke up in vegas refused to do, was still looking to see how that 'naive natural' life would have played out...
Cooper tried to fix things with Diane as if she could magically return to where she was before the rape, pretending everything was great, and eventually wanted to take the 'next step', thus drawn back to coordinates, 430 miles away, etc. when they finally consummated the affair at this level(love song), they found they were going back to where it all started, what was right under the surface, and Diane trying to get rid of Cooper. Under the surface is 'Richard and Linda': like Richard, Cooper has no place in this naive 'natural world', hes seen his dreams shattered against it and went mad, thus he has to now re-appropriate the negative aspect and deal with the problems inflicted on him again, go back to where it all started, Twin Peaks and Laura Palmer, with all seriousness to the tragedy that happened; while Diane is Linda, the one who was hurt infinitely by the FBI/government, wanted to shoot the agents, etc. Diane could not see herself outside that sleazy motel waiting for Cooper....
So the extreme negativity, Judy, where everything went wrong and destroyed the life was Laura and Twin Peaks. Laura had been saved by Cooper from death, but then she could not meet with the fireman, since she was brought back by Cooper into 'naive natural' life, just saying she was young, not her fault, just going along with life now, etc., not dealing with the problem, trying to forget etc....and ended up in Odessa Texas wasting away, with all the problems bubbling underneath(shooting the man, etc.). This happy ending where Cooper fixes everything and the world is perfect ends like this, without confronting the nasty truth of it all....and in this happy ending, all of what we just saw would not exist, we would have missed the entire relevance of the dream of Twin Peaks, the Laura tragedy, Sarah, etc., all erased, and you get Odessa Texas and Cooper with Diane....
the happy ending kills the dream by hiding the pain, the pain which leads to the excess of dreaming for something better and struggling for it....thus the true horror is that life goes on without dreams, as if nothing happened, the pain and horror of it all is ignored for 'viva las vegas', the world is deaf and dumb to suffering, nature is blind force, Laura screams because it is as if it all never happened, everyone got a happy ending........but now that we are back here, we are where we should be, with Agent Cooper and Laura properly back where they should be, with all seriousness, the return of the big mystery from the original series.....
Fire walk with