Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
Remember?:) With all tulpas story it looks like this mysterious line about Phyllis Hastings could be more clear now. Do you guys think we'll get some wrap up of her story? I thought from very beggining that she could be important (basically I think everything in the begining is) but we only got short explanation that she was found dead. Not enough. Waiting for some follow up...
I sure hope we will get a wrap up of the entire Bill Hastings plotline, but I'm not that sure.
Phyllis didn't disappear when she got shot. So if she was a tulpa she wasn't the same kind as Diane or Dougie. But how did she know Mr C? What was their connection? I doubt we will get to know about this. Could she perhaps be the mysterious Judy? Nah... That doesn't hold up. Especially not now when she's dead and Jeffries implied that Judy was still around.
That's actually a very interesting observation and i feel like that quote might be of significance. Lynch is notorious for hiding important information in the beginning of this films (eg. Mulholland Drive) so i might just go back and re-watch the first few episodes see if i can piece something together.
No she didn't disappear, but there was a strange 'visual echo' effect which people commented on at the time - that, combined with the line about human nature, make it a near certainty that she has some connection with the world of Doppelgängers and tulpas, I would have thought. I think this one will be explained because the Hastings role was so pivotal to the story.
I keep thinking that the "3rd set" of coordinates everyone is musing about came from Hasting's "pretty secretary" (who we never see) named "Betty". It just seems odd to me that Mr. C shows up in Buckhorn to kill Hasting's wife right after Ray tells him about Hasting's secretary.
There also seemed to be a slight "glitch' as she was shot, but I couldn't tell if that was just the Showtime app streaming on my Firebox or not. Just remember thinking "was that something?"
As far as early conversations go; I still want to know who Mrs. Houseman and her New York friends are at the Great Northern hotel!
I wondered if he simply seduced her to get what he wanted. And she followed that human need to feel wanted.
I think you've overlooking it. The line was designed by Lynch/Frost to show how removed Bad Coop is from humanity, and how aware he was of human nature, and how he could use that to manipulate people.
Easy as that, really.
Pretty secretary Betty - exactly, another hint for... who knows what.
I got this feeling that whoever this person was, could be major player. Even Laura perhaps?
Maybe we find out, maybe not. If we don't we will get kinda confirmation that it really didn't matter.
Pretty secretary Betty - exactly, another hint for... who knows what.
I got this feeling that whoever this person was, could be major player. Even Laura perhaps?
Maybe we find out, maybe not. If we don't we will get kinda confirmation that it really didn't matter.
My reaction when Ray mentions Hasting's 'pretty secretary, Betty".
Pics or GTFO.
Pretty secretary Betty - exactly, another hint for... who knows what.
I got this feeling that whoever this person was, could be major player. Even Laura perhaps?
Maybe we find out, maybe not. If we don't we will get kinda confirmation that it really didn't matter.
My reaction when Ray mentions Hasting's 'pretty secretary, Betty".
Pics or GTFO.
Oh dear:)
Remember?:) With all tulpas story it looks like this mysterious line about Phyllis Hastings could be more clear now. Do you guys think we'll get some wrap up of her story? I thought from very beggining that she could be important (basically I think everything in the begining is) but we only got short explanation that she was found dead. Not enough. Waiting for some follow up...
Phyllis, Ruth, and the pretty secretary Betty could easily connect to Laura's role in all of this, by giving an example of how 'Laura's logic and existence', or 'Laura's law' played out, and is playing out in Buckhorn, South Dakota...., and relations more generally.....
If Phyllis followed the 'human nature' perfectly, then it is nature's rule without dreams, the violent vortex of nature's inconsistency, its slow decay into death, interrupted by explosions of violent natural disaster. Following nature here is just following the impulses, and drives that are imposed from the outside, from nature, as an unquestioning authority; things are presented, you take it as fact and follow the impulse, destroying anything in the way, giving way to the life and its violent vortex as if it nature was self-sufficient, as if nature did not have a void out there in the middle of the deep forest. In order to follow this path towards chaos and barbarism, you have to dream that you will no longer dream, hide from the dreams, and this turns to chaos, tyranny and barbarism because nature itself is split open and violent(facts of nature/life, positivism/empiricism, etc. alone is violent tyranny), and less free than 'human nature', which is disconnected from nature, has the ability to abstract, think, dream, tear apart nature and meet it at the level of void, where dreams emerge, as if the human, what 'I' or dreamer means, is the big bang or atomic blast embodied. Phyllis followed 'nature' perfectly as a human can, she just tried to integrate herself into nature and take advantage, crushed Hastings' dreams for some amusements or money, to maximize her appropriation of whatever was there without improving it, and at the expense of Bill Hastings; so she only cared about dinner parties, affairs, whatever Mr. C gave her, etc., at the expense of hers and Bill's dreams, what she had in store for Bill was 'life in prison Bill, life in prison....', to service her 'natural' life and used up Bill like her personal convenience store. Bill on the other hand was looking for dreams, to 'drink mixed drinks on the beach', getting to the 'major'(dreams of man as structured by realizing law, justice, and true love which holds it up, replaces the natural background of barbarity with human relations of community or love of one woman in particular, etc., like 'jack rabbits palace' for Bobby, Phyllis 'ate the bunny' rather than holding up a 'jack rabbit').
So Bill was looking for dreams with his true love Ruth, whom he (probably) killed out of the guilt for violating nature/life when someone 'pushed him down' and guilted him by saying 'whose your wife', at this point Bill failed to act, felt guilty and ended up killing his true love Ruth and his dreams(represented here as 'major', jack rabbit's 'mixed drink' palace) in order to obey the excessive demands and guilt of 'mother nature' Phyllis. So Bill killed his true love because he was still too tender towards nature, thought it was full positive 'factual' substance, and discounted the non-existing that comes off of the void in nature, the ethical/rational 'fact' of dreams, the fact that we exist as nothing, strictly that we dont exist, its impossible to live, so we dream......
What is the role of Mr. C here? Mr. C is now trying to kill the 'natural', Phyllis, so that he is the dreamer, but wants to be dreamer as existing, which cannot happen because of void you always meet, so he then tries to destroy nature over and over again, failing, since nature has void in it, etc.... But Mr. C knows something is wrong with nature, because he has been through the thing with Laura and Twin Peaks, knows its not innocent, that's why he 'shoots' nature, so he is not guilted like Bill Hastings or Steven. Then Mr. C met Jeffries, who he thought would be the answer to everything, the one behind all the problems in nature, and he could finally 'factually' fix the impossible problem. What he found was some guy in 'convenience motel' who did not really care about what was going on, not even caring about Judy and the 'meeting over the convenience store' anymore, that nature is split and not self-sufficient, death, etc. Thats why Mr. C got so nervous and demanded to ask 'Where's Judy?' nervously, he returned to search for woman, Laura....which is linked to search for the coordinates. Now he is training Richard about the 'impossible place' and learning more about the nature of Laura, not so crazy, but actually teaching Richard, who also finds nature impossible. Maybe Mr. C and Richard will realize there is nothing in nature to find, but in themselves is the impossible place......
So Laura's Law is linked to Buckhorn(maybe why the Blue Rose Task Force is still there) and the search for coordinates. We had Phyllis, Laura's vengeful and self-destructive 'natural' side that spins out of her control and brings her close to death and decay as she tries to destroy 'law'/dreams of man(James or Bobby for instance), when her dreams are crushed, when the 'angels' go away. Ruth was the original Laura dreaming about angels before Twin Peaks locals started getting a hold of her and destroying her and her dreams, killed by someone who felt guilt towards 'mother nature', tried to fulfill the impossible demand to live, to exist, to enjoy, natures default call to barbarism that is exemplified in what happened to Laura.
But Betty is interesting.....she is the unseen 'pretty secretary' connected around the Hastings situation....maybe could be something like Laura returned after the tragedy. Showing something for Laura's justice that even after the human nature(finding out dreamer and nature does not exist, vortex/void, etc.), but nevertheless still asking about dreams....'is it true'?(cannot erase them). Dreams like angels, etc., but asked to Mr. C?,
also we know here that Betty could be slipping a message Mr. C's way via the coordinates to Ray(maybe she appeared around Phyllis as the sort of proper outcome of the Hastings' tragedy), anyway, that message ended up with Mr. C, whether he asked for it or not... and his meeting with Jeffries is important here....(Jeffries does not care about Judy, but Mr. C still does, looking for Laura, and Jeffries told him, 'so you are Cooper') Mr. C is the one who ended up with the message, and has been the one dealing with the consequences of Agent Cooper's(and the world in general's) failures from the original series......he knows about 'the place', void(world does not hold itself together, up to people, etc.), maybe trying to show Richard this, who is too still reliant on the world-as-nature where he had no place.....
Murat, you have some really good points there. I like the idea that all Buckhorne women, so to speak, represent some aspescts of Laura. Even coulor could matter: Phyllis is blonde, Ruth is red, Betty was probably black haired. As we know we never actually saw intented red haired Laura Palmer in non existent(!) season 3.
And yes, Blue Rose team still reside in this town, that's where Gordon had his Laura Palmer vision.
From the beggining of the show I got this feeling that it will all have sort of buckle composition. I don't know if you know what I mean, hard to translate from my language, it's like everything what we experience in the first installement will turn out crucial at the end. Even if we got "tricked" to forget about it because of multiple new plots, mysteries, developments.
From my point of view: Giant's Richard and Linda, scared running girl, Glass Box, golden shovels, Otis and Buella's hut, Hastings, Chip, Laura and Leland, Sarah, Shelly and Red...
It all should be revealed.
From the beggining of the show I got this feeling that it will all have sort of buckle composition. I don't know if you know what I mean, hard to translate from my language, it's like everything what we experience in the first installement will turn out crucial at the end. Even if we got "tricked" to forget about it because of multiple new plots, mysteries, developments.
From my point of view: Giant's Richard and Linda, scared running girl, Glass Box, golden shovels, Otis and Buella's hut, Hastings, Chip, Laura and Leland, Sarah, Shelly and Red...
It all should be revealed.
I agree with you on that 'buckle composition', definitely stuff is coming back around from the earlier episodes........starting to see stuff from the purple room, Naido, coming back and should link with the glass box.....and now the 'sheriffs station cells room' is becoming key, where Naido is....another small enclosure
and another question here is, what will happen with Chip?, and what was in the groundskeeper's bag that he was paranoid about? Twin Peaks lives on in Buckhorn, South Dakota....
Fire walk with 
