Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
That scene with Mike freaked me bit..
Imagine if its Cooper that wants Doppel in the lodge so he can be with Bob
Mike has been trying to be good for 25 years--it's why he cut off his arm.
Do you think that Mike wants to be with BOB? I see why that would be a disturbing idea. But the lodge is very big--I doubt if they'd have to cross paths. And Mike isn't in the Black Lodge as far as we know--he's always in the Red Room. The parlor of the lodges, I think.
im not thinking thats the case, i said imagine if it is.. You don't know what happened in the lodge for 25 years.. i say its a super twist. it wouldn't get much scarier than that..
Maybe ,, depends on how it would been played out.. But sure it seems highly unlikely being the case,, was just a creepy feeling 🙂 i bring that thought to sleep, good night
Well Agent Cooper is going to be 'with' BOB in a sense soon, since next episode he will be confronting Mr. C/BOB, so definitely he will be relating to BOB again in the very near future, the same BOB that seduced him 25 years ago that he did want, since it was his weakness internal to Agent Cooper himself that led him to be split into Mr. C/BOB and Dougie, attracted to inhabit those lives, so that at one point Cooper did say 'I want to be with BOB', then laughed at Annie, etc., Hows Annie? Hows Annie?, hahahah.....So this is not crazy at all, but is going to happen very soon, in one way or another. But how Agent Cooper will deal with this is another question, will he get some ruthlessness back when Mr. C is eliminated, while eliminating BOB as a controlling force, something like the ruthlessness needed to see justice and dreams in the world without the wild excesses that BOB goes to? Agent Cooper did not take the ring, but abandoned it, so he will not be 'wedded' to BOB again this time, but he still may have some ruthless intent to take revenge on BOB for those 25 years and all the crimes he has committed in his name....thus, 'being with BOB again' would be the confrontation and Agent Cooper calling to account for the crimes and the 25 years he lost....and being through what Cooper, or Sarah Palmer, has been through can put a sort of 'alien' voice inside of a person, needed to deal with the problems the world presents...the orange jerky..., and very important here how this is used and struggled with, or can end up being fully defeated like the original Agent Cooper who failed in this regard, but is now having a second go at it....
Agent Cooper is back, but the threat that caused him to be trapped for 25 years is still roaming free, all is not said and done yet, he is not in the clear and good forever, he could very well be killed by Mr. C and sent back.....why not?
Well Agent Cooper is going to be 'with' BOB in a sense soon, since next episode he will be confronting Mr. C/BOB, so definitely he will be relating to BOB again in the very near future, the same BOB that seduced him 25 years ago that he did want, since it was his weakness internal to Agent Cooper himself that led him to be split into Mr. C/BOB and Dougie, attracted to inhabit those lives, so that at one point Cooper did say 'I want to be with BOB', then laughed at Annie, etc., Hows Annie? Hows Annie?, hahahah.....So this is not crazy at all, but is going to happen very soon, in one way or another. But how Agent Cooper will deal with this is another question, will he get some ruthlessness back when Mr. C is eliminated, while eliminating BOB as a controlling force, something like the ruthlessness needed to see justice and dreams in the world without the wild excesses that BOB goes to? Agent Cooper did not take the ring, but abandoned it, so he will not be 'wedded' to BOB again this time, but he still may have some ruthless intent to take revenge on BOB for those 25 years and all the crimes he has committed in his name....
Agent Cooper is back, but the threat that caused him to be trapped for 25 years is still roaming free, all is not said and done yet, he is not in the clear and good forever, he could very well be killed by Mr. C and sent back.....why not?
Basic Jungian psychology in a way. (Well, nothing about Jung is basic.) A man as good as Dale has an enormous shadow side. This isn't made up. I've seen how it works in real life. If he doesn't work it out inside himself, it will come at him and it has and it will.
Yeah, but it would totally ruin the show if Dale Cooper wanted to be with BOB. There are twists that enhance the show and twists that would destroy the show. That would destroy it.
David Lynch agrees with you and that's one of the reasons for why he changed the end of the season 2 finale. He introduced doppelgängers instead of having Bob inhabit Special Agent Dale Cooper.
Well Agent Cooper is going to be 'with' BOB in a sense soon, since next episode he will be confronting Mr. C/BOB, so definitely he will be relating to BOB again in the very near future, the same BOB that seduced him 25 years ago that he did want, since it was his weakness internal to Agent Cooper himself that led him to be split into Mr. C/BOB and Dougie, attracted to inhabit those lives, so that at one point Cooper did say 'I want to be with BOB', then laughed at Annie, etc., Hows Annie? Hows Annie?, hahahah.....So this is not crazy at all, but is going to happen very soon, in one way or another. But how Agent Cooper will deal with this is another question, will he get some ruthlessness back when Mr. C is eliminated, while eliminating BOB as a controlling force, something like the ruthlessness needed to see justice and dreams in the world without the wild excesses that BOB goes to? Agent Cooper did not take the ring, but abandoned it, so he will not be 'wedded' to BOB again this time, but he still may have some ruthless intent to take revenge on BOB for those 25 years and all the crimes he has committed in his name....
Agent Cooper is back, but the threat that caused him to be trapped for 25 years is still roaming free, all is not said and done yet, he is not in the clear and good forever, he could very well be killed by Mr. C and sent back.....why not?
Basic Jungian psychology in a way. (Well, nothing about Jung is basic.) A man as good as Dale has an enormous shadow side. This isn't made up. I've seen how it works in real life. If he doesn't work it out inside himself, it will come at him and it has and it will.
We've potentially got his shadow (dopple) and his anima (Naido?).
What was the problem with Cooper that led him to be taken over by BOB? It was his need to 'find' a community to enjoy, rather than following his duty as FBI agent to shape and maintain that kind of world, just like Mr. C turns the world into his convenience store, rather than maintaining justice, right, freedom, etc. The problem with Cooper who said 'I am the FBI', Cooper himself is one of the biggest criminals here, creating and enjoying the world that systematically creates unjust and impossible situations as a life for people....Cooper's giving up of the ring may indicate that he has given up on his quest to find a just community, the ring is given by an authority figure(ex. Mr. C) who imposes some kind of order(tyranny, freedom, etc.) onto the world, and this is Cooper's duty, to provide a just and free world, not just endorse whatever is there, what is easy and makes him feel good so he can drink his coffee in peace, if he wants to do that, he should be nowhere near authority, but just some ordinary guy without that kind of duty or responsibility.
The biggest evil is just endorsing what exists/nature/state of things, hiding over the injustices and making everything look good without solving the problems, since the state of things is rationally torn apart, and this has to be taken into account, or the world without 'the dreamer who does not exist, but is there dreaming nonetheless' will then slowly decay into merely factual natural cycles of slow decay(sleepwalking for 25 years) and violent outbursts of wrath(Mr. C, etc.), like mother nature and the deep forest itself. Cooper is just alright with the world no matter what, endorsing criminal organizations, so he can drink his coffee and eat his pie...And this potential is what is lacking in the authorities in Twin Peaks, their weakness at Laura's funeral to identify the problems that led to her downfall which Bobby called them out on, and which they violently ignored, damning their community for the next 25 years. The same thing is being done here with the Richard, bad guy gone, we can go back to rancho rosa, Jade and the Mitchums, and somehow everything is going to work out fine because we feel good, Mitchums have given us a handout and not shot us to maintain their criminal organization, or make sure people end up in rancho rosa; and this is biggest irrational, false, and evil approach, same thing that destroyed Laura continues...but Jerry is onto it at least, same with Carl Rodd. Cooper just wants to 'find' a community given, rather than engaging in the hard work of maintaining and shaping the just community according to rationality, freedom, law, etc....exactly what his duty as an FBI agent is....something he is violating and the same reason why he turned into evil BOB, and could easily do again, from the looks of it.....Cooper, and those like him are the biggest criminals here so far, thats why he turned evil at the end of season 2, fundamentally failing in his duty to uphold just conditions of existence in the world, and just enjoying with it....maintaining injustice and tyranny because it feels right.....Cooper is going down, again, from the looks of it, unless something really wakes him up again.....he will be 'with' BOB again soon, and seems like as of now he does definitely want to be with BOB again, just run wild in the world as it is, turning it into his pie and coffee convenience store, rather than doing the hard work that is his duty and creating a just and free state, community, etc.....
Agent Cooper giving up the ring, this may indicate his utter failure in his duty to maintain a just and free world as an FBI agent, leaving that duty to Mr. C/BOB above the conveniences store. Just as Mike/Gerrard does, hiding in the shadows as a shoe salesman while his arm makes deals with BOB over the convenience store to enforce the world with terror and tyranny; then so does Agent Cooper, so he can sit comfortably with criminals, eat pie and coffee, while Laura's tragedy happens on repeat, people being sent to rancho rosa by his buddies who buy him nice stuff. Cooper is trying to say its not a problem simply because its ignored, people cant be bothered, and these types have no place near authority, that duty.....they are BOB and looks like Cooper is making the same mistake and will be with BOB again soon, unless something changes....If Cooper 'is the FBI' and this is what he is doing, then he is the biggest criminal, notice how he ignored the Las Vegas FBI, Cole, etc., to instead join with his source of wealth and 'quirkiness' the criminal Mitchums he is 'in' with, what feels good, etc.......both Mike and Cooper 'have been tricked', again....
This 'feel good' episode is the most disturbing and criminal thing I have ever witnessed in Twin Peaks, and in Lynch in general......smoothing over the reign of BOB, making it looks good, and so easily and effectively.......just by giving out a few presents here and there(gym set, car, etc.)
Sarah Palmer might want to be back with Bob.
Sarah Palmer might want to be back with Bob.
Right now, ive got her as having that power of authority, but in a just way, on the other side of Cooper's/Bob's tyranny. It never looks pretty or feels good to deal with things like serious crime that was inflicted on Palmer family, but she seems inclined to do it nonetheless, to face up to the pain and meaningless injustice of it all and nevertheless stand up for her dreams, justice, etc.. If she wanted to be with BOB and convenience store, Sarah Palmer would have had no trouble with that truck driver like she did....., she would have acted like Cooper, chatted with them, found a way to like them or ignore them to make things feel good and easy...also Richard and Diane had this potential but got too caught up idolizing the authority figures or out of fear/cowardice just following along with like Mitchum, Cooper, Mr. C, etc.
Cooper may have been trying to avoid being in jail, knowing they would take him as dangerous, being involved in that murder with major and ruth, and lock him up. I would like to know what is on that note.....maybe a taunt to Cole.... and the voice that called Mr. C looking to be with BOB again was Cooper himself, the double that also still wants to be with BOB, his biggest threat.
Ive tried to defend Cooper fairly, to think that he is just trying to cultivate the good in the Mitchums, maybe just using them to get to Twin Peaks asap, and thinking why he would tell Sonny Jim he is his father, etc....but its not just panning out...as if the Mitchums would give up their life of crime, ruing people and the town of Las Vegas, and all that money because they like Dougie, does not seem plausible, Cooper would then have to betray the Mitchums and get them locked up in Twin Peaks......As soon as Cooper said to Bushnell that he was a fine man, etc., he started repeating the same mistakes as original agent cooper to just hide and exist in that town, rather than enforcing the dream of justice(which does not exist, but is a struggle to deal with Laura's tragedy), identifying and dealing with the problems that led to Laura's tragedy. I get it that Mullins was trying to be good, etc., had some kind of basic decency, and that the Mitchums give charity and like to feel good and be quirky, but there are serious problems there, killing, fraud, etc. that no one now has a problems with, I wonder how Cooper is going to make them 'good' while just letting these things slide or how violent it will be when he tries to actually confront Mullins or Mitchums with the core of the problem which will cut off their money and enjoyment if they actually deal with it. Cooper goes overboard in his admiration of mafia gift taking and insurance fraudster Mullins, and with the Mitchums, just because they made him feel good, gave him presents, ate pie with him, etc. We know that Cooper was inside of Dougie all the time and he knows the names Sonny Jim and Janey E and everything that happened, seems like Cooper was seduced along with Dougie. Then saying 'I am the FBI', identifying his personal self with a public institution was also disturbing....then he just dumped the Las Vegas FBI for the criminals.....Maybe it was flashes of Agent Cooper breaking out in Dougie that called Mr. C back in that hotel room, threatening him, and now headed with his criminal group to finish Mr. C and take BOB back....
Richard is the key to all of this, his evil and guilt also highlights the social evil and guilt that he as a young kid is copying from society around him where injustice is prevalent and from his father Mr. C, problems that are systematically ignored and not dealt with for 25 years while some (Cooper, Red, etc.) are just accepted as 'fun' irrationally, and others which dont make you 'feel good' are treated as the only source of all evil, the son of satan, because otherwise with no fake bad guy to blame for the problems everyone is guilt in, the person does not have to serious problems in the world and in people and deal with them. Ben Horne's talking about Richard having no father here is key..... So, this 'smoothing over' with Cooper in the limo, including convincing an upset Candie because her love is completely destroyed to jump back in with the Mitchums, was the most disturbing thing ive seen in the series. Maybe Cooper will turn it around, maybe Laura will arrive and he will have to be serious and face up to his duty like a man....and maybe now its all just an act, but as of right now its got me disturbed, very much so......We waited all the time for Agent Cooper to come back, and now just get the same mistakes and life that should be long dead about to start in repeat mode again.....on and on....sleepwalking again for another 25 years while things slowly decay more and BOB/billionaires tighten their grip on the world; just so we can have pie and be self-satisfied, feel good, then all the problems vented on one evil guy, Richard(or Diane), damned disgusting....
Fire walk with 
