Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
That line kind of bothered me from Part 16.
I mean, I kind of like the Mitchum Brothers. Jim Belushi, at least, has always been hard not to like (for me), he's just kind of cuddly-charming. And yes, it sounds like they have a soft spot for Candie.
But let's be real here: the Mitchum Brothers aren't too terribly far removed from Mr. C. We've seen them brutally beat down an employee, then have him removed by their thugs (likely to be killed). They almost killed Cooper, if not for the dream/pie interventions of Mike. And, judging from their driver's nonchalant attitude about it all, we kind of get the idea such murders may not be uncommon for them.
And, yes, they've lavished Lucky 7 and the Jones family with gifts and praise, but only because they got $30 million from them. Not the most deep, heartfelt of reasons. I mean, terrible people throughout history have always had some people they've been nice to. It doesn't necessarily make-up for all the bad things they've done.
So, while it was nice to have Cooper back, I was taken aback that he'd refer to the Mitchum Brothers as having hearts of gold. He was, after all, one dream/cherry pie away from getting a bullet from them.
I've taken it that they are people that lacked a positive influence. Thus, like others, being turned good or better by their interaction with Cooper. Maybe this is their chance to show they are better than their past actions.
Just a feel good thought if nothing else. After last night I am in a better mood.
I agree the Mitchums have a lot of negative baggage. To be fair, they didn't kill their casino manager. They told him to leave town and never come back.
I took it that Cooper looked deep into their souls and ultimately saw good. But what would he do if they end up being charged for some crime? As an officer of the law I think he'd have to let the justice system do its thing.
That duality is rampant in Twin Peaks. Good people aren't that far off from doing bad things. And bad people are capable of doing good.
Perhaps nobody exemplifies the latter more than Mike. At one point, Mike was, by his own account, some sort of higher ranking entity to Bob - and was here for the express purpose of causing pain and suffering via murder/rape. But not anymore. Now he's our friendly, extra-worldly one-armed man. The kind of guy who materializes and leads us to poignant pie purchases, and is there to great us when we arise from electro-shock induced comas and quickly begin following out instructions to create more manufactured people.
So it's not that hard to imagine the Mitchum's as being capable of doing good. To be fair, the one time we've seen them act "evil", they believed they had been stolen from (because it's not logical that someone could've otherwise lucked into so many jackpots). The only other time they contemplated doing something truly evil, they again believed that the person they were contemplating such actions against had done them a tremendous injustice.
Of course we've seen "good" people behave strangely as well. We've seen Lucy sort of manipulate Andy to get the chair that she wanted, at least on the surface (before switching it back; like she just wanted the satisfaction of seeming to get he way). We've seen Laura Palmer, the supposed light and truth of goodness, delve into teen prostitution and heavy drug use. And of course even the marble man himself, the real Agent Dale Cooper, we learned in season 2 had a torrid afair with his former partner's wife, that resulted in the destruction of 2 people's lives, and led to 25 years of his own life being "lost" in the lodge.
Contrast this with Bobby; who just wanted to get rich quick either by insurance fraud or selling cocaine and then live out his life-of-sin with Becky, regardless of whether Leo was laying around watching or not - and has now blossomed into an upstanding member of the constabulary.
To me the image is clear; people don't conform to cookie cutter examples. They are not all good or all bad. Most of us are somewhere in between with examples we can recognize from our character all over the good/bad spectrum.
These are all good responses. I guess I'll just roll with it.
I don't see them as evil, as distinct from bad. I reckon that's what Coop was getting at.
Agent Cooper giving up the ring, this may indicate his utter failure in his duty to maintain a just and free world as an FBI agent, leaving that duty to Mr. C/BOB above the conveniences store. Just as Mike/Gerrard does, hiding in the shadows as a shoe salesman while his arm makes deals with BOB over the convenience store to enforce the world with terror and tyranny; then so does Agent Cooper, so he can sit comfortably with criminals, eat pie and coffee, while Laura's tragedy happens on repeat, people being sent to rancho rosa by his buddies who buy him nice stuff. Cooper is trying to say its not a problem simply because its ignored, people cant be bothered, and these types have no place near authority, that duty.....they are BOB and looks like Cooper is making the same mistake and will be with BOB again soon, unless something changes....If Cooper 'is the FBI' and this is what he is doing, then he is the biggest criminal, notice how he ignored the Las Vegas FBI, Cole, etc., to instead join with his source of wealth and 'quirkiness' the criminal Mitchums he is 'in' with, what feels good, etc.......both Mike and Cooper 'have been tricked', again....
This 'feel good' episode is the most disturbing and criminal thing I have ever witnessed in Twin Peaks, and in Lynch in general......smoothing over the reign of BOB, making it looks good, and so easily and effectively.......just by giving out a few presents here and there(gym set, car, etc.)
Agent Cooper giving up the ring, this may indicate his utter failure in his duty to maintain a just and free world as an FBI agent, leaving that duty to Mr. C/BOB above the conveniences store. Just as Mike/Gerrard does, hiding in the shadows as a shoe salesman while his arm makes deals with BOB over the convenience store to enforce the world with terror and tyranny; then so does Agent Cooper, so he can sit comfortably with criminals, eat pie and coffee, while Laura's tragedy happens on repeat, people being sent to rancho rosa by his buddies who buy him nice stuff. Cooper is trying to say its not a problem simply because its ignored, people cant be bothered, and these types have no place near authority, that duty.....they are BOB and looks like Cooper is making the same mistake and will be with BOB again soon, unless something changes....If Cooper 'is the FBI' and this is what he is doing, then he is the biggest criminal, notice how he ignored the Las Vegas FBI, Cole, etc., to instead join with his source of wealth and 'quirkiness' the criminal Mitchums he is 'in' with, what feels good, etc.......both Mike and Cooper 'have been tricked', again....
This 'feel good' episode is the most disturbing and criminal thing I have ever witnessed in Twin Peaks, and in Lynch in general......smoothing over the reign of BOB, making it looks good, and so easily and effectively.......just by giving out a few presents here and there(gym set, car, etc.)
That's an intriguing take. I'll say one thing in Cooper's defense. He didn't wait for Cole and went with the Mitchums because wanted to get to Twin Peaks as fast as possible.
That's an intriguing take. I'll say one thing in Cooper's defense. He didn't wait for Cole and went with the Mitchums because wanted to get to Twin Peaks as fast as possible.
Yeah, I was thinking this too, that he may have been trying to avoid being in jail, knowing they would take him as dangerous, being involved in that murder with major and ruth, and lock him up. I would like to know what is on that note.....maybe a taunt to Cole.... and the voice that called Mr. C looking to be with BOB again was Cooper himself, the double that also still wants to be with BOB, his biggest threat.
Ive tried to defend Cooper fairly, to think that he is just trying to cultivate the good in the Mitchums, maybe just using them to get to Twin Peaks asap, and thinking why he would tell Sonny Jim he is his father, etc....but its not just panning out...as if the Mitchums would give up their life of crime, ruing people and the town of Las Vegas, and all that money because they like Dougie, does not seem plausible, Cooper would then have to betray the Mitchums and get them locked up in Twin Peaks......As soon as Cooper said to Bushnell that he was a fine man, etc., he started repeating the same mistakes as original agent cooper to just hide and exist in that town, rather than enforcing the dream of justice(which does not exist, but is a struggle to deal with Laura's tragedy), identifying and dealing with the problems that led to Laura's tragedy. Cooper goes overboard in his admiration of mafia gift taking and insurance fraudster Mullins, and with the Mitchums, just because they made him feel good, gave him presents, ate pie with him, etc. We know that Cooper was inside of Dougie all the time and he knows the names Sonny Jim and Janey E and everything that happened, seems like Cooper was seduced along with Dougie. Then saying 'I am the FBI', identifying his personal self with a public institution was also disturbing....then he just dumped the Las Vegas FBI for the criminals.....Maybe it was flashes of Agent Cooper breaking out in Dougie that called Mr. C back in that hotel room, threatening him, and now headed with his criminal group to finish Mr. C and take BOB back....
Richard is the key to all of this, his evil and guilt also highlights the social evil and guilt that imposes conditions which lead to these situations, while some (Cooper, Red, etc.) are just accepted irrationally, and others which dont make you 'feel good' are treated as the source of all evil because it makes you face up to serious problems in the world and in people. Ben Horne's talking about Richard having no father here is key.....this 'smoothing over' with Cooper in the limo, including convincing an upset Candie because her love is completely destroyed to jump back in with the Mitchums, was the most disturbing thing ive seen in the series. Maybe Cooper will turn it around, maybe Laura will arrive and he will have to be serious and face up to his duty like a man....and maybe now its all just an act, but as of right now its got me disturbed, very much so......We waited all the time for Agent Cooper to come back, and now just get the same mistakes and life that should be long dead about to start in repeat mode again.....on and on....sleepwalking again for another 25 years while things slowly decay more and BOB/billionaires tighten their grip on the world; just so we can have pie and be self-satisfied, feel good, then all the problems vented on one evil guy, Richard(or Diane), damned disgusting....
I took it as they are soon going to meet their demise -- Log Lady's log "turning gold" to signify the end of her life -- hearts of gold meaning Mitchum brothers lives about to end?
If Cooper 'is the FBI' himself, personally, then hes carrying a lot of baggage regarding justice, etc......not sure how he is going to resolve this, maybe could go either way with him knowing something about how its going to work out, and he will make things work out satisfactorily....., but not looking good as of right now, already problems and unsolvable antagonisms just being brushed over....
Maybe Cooper somehow knows how to get the Mitchums to give up crime and their source of money, but what is the 'heart of gold' burning for here: these guys always give out charity like that, one to make themselves feel good so they dont have to deal with the problems they create systematically and still collect all that money, and also to make social exchange and bind people to their organizations, favors to be returned for protection, etc....If Cooper can somehow convince the Mitchums to give all that up, I dont know how that would fit, would be like the return of 'corporate do gooder' John Wheller returning in the guise of the Mitchums, really naive and fake....not sure how they are going to pull this off....
Maybe this is a nod to the fact that the Mitchum brothers are also Tulpas? Their hearts of gold are "the seeds" that we see with the end of Dougie and Diane. The Mitchum's lives played perfectly into the lodges plans and success, who is to say they were not also manufactured for purposes seen? And that is why Candie laughed so much, because she is the realization of "oh, hahaha yeah they do 'hearts' of gold".
Are we sure that Dale Cooper, with his recovered cleverness, won't use the brothers till he needs them (he needs, he doesn't want 😉 ) and then accuses Rod and Bradley of their crimes sending them to the famous TP police stations jail cells? 😉
Are we sure that Dale Cooper, with his recovered cleverness, won't use the brothers till he needs them (he needs, he doesn't want 😉 ) and then accuses Rod and Bradley of their crimes sending them to the famous TP police stations jail cells? 😉
There is going to be some type of judgement for the Mitchums, since they are headed into Twin Peaks for the finale and I am sure some kind of outcome regarding their status will be produced there.
But I think you are right when talking about Dale Cooper's cleverness, he is definitely using the situation to produce the best possible outcome he can get while stuck in a nasty 'viva las vegas' suburbanite situation surrounded by mobsters, fraud, etc.
There is a possible way out for Agent Cooper that before I may have underrated: Agent Cooper did seem to be playing along in that limo and gave various skeptical looks during the entire Bradley-obscene bloody mary-Candie upset sequence, as if to indicate, I see the problems here, but not exaggerating it since this would cause a disaster......So there is still room that he is just stuck in a bad situation, thrown there against his will after the purple room scene, and is now trying to work his way out as best he can, which means more modesty and recognizing the limitations the situation is currently stuck at, then trying to produce the best from it, leading the characters to their best possible outcome. Since just accusing everyone right away would land him stuck in Las Vegas and away from the showdown in Twin Peaks with Mr. C, since the FBI agents would lock him up, and that Agent Headly would probably not listen to him for days(seeing as how he treats Wilson) until Cole got there. So now Cooper is just using the situation to his advantage in order to get to Twin Peaks right away for the showdown with Mr. C in the only possible way he can, and at the same time trying to get people on the best possible track for the Twin Peaks showdown....If the world is responsible for the problems, systematically set up that way in its failings and injustices, unable to deal with problems, Agent Cooper alone is not going to fix them straight away, as some kind of savior, but will have to find some way out from within that situation, which I guess we will get at with the finale....
I was more worried Coop might be Mr. C, and I rewound to check his eyes a few times. Ok, they're human eyes. And then, even though some things concerned me, I've got a much more optimistic outlook than a few of us lodge/forum dwellers.
Saying, "I am the FBI" seemed like the tongue-in-cheek talk straight out of the originals, like Coop and Gordon sharing a thumbs up, or Cooper sharing wisdom like "give yourself a present."
As for Mullins, I think he IS a good guy. There is such a thing as a good-hearted business person who works in insurance. He has been kinda "working" alongside MIKE and the Fireman and Cooper's good karma to save his life in Vegas
Next, when I heard "hearts of gold," I instantly thought of the gold "seed" for tulpas. (In the end, we might be wondering whether every character was a tulpa, and given they were all dreamt up by Lynch/Frost, they kinda are.)
MOST IMPORTANT: Remember when Dougie Cooper said "he's lying" of Anthony? Coop seems to have maintained all his intuition and goodness. I doubt he would be incredibly wrong about the Mitchums. (I still haven't seen evidence that they're sleeping with theses girls, but only that they saved them from orphanhood and employed them only as naive casino owners would know how.) After 25 years in another dimension because he so thoroughly wanted to rectify his wrong (I.e., making Annie a target of Earle's), I strongly doubt that big money would change Cooper.
Fire walk with 
