Regarding the theory that evil Coop must retain original Coop's memories. This is not certain.
For instance, he had 25 years to learn everything he needed to know.
On his exit of the lodge, evil Coop could've gleaned a bit of information from Diane, and then confided in her that he has lost his memory and needs a refresher.
Easily done. Nobody would suspect any wiser. What's easier to believe - he's lost his memory or is going through some mental breakdown, or he's really a secret, evil doppelganger from another dimension?
Being a doppelganger is easy to infiltrate and learn the info you need.
My biggest question so far though is - what does Mr C want, and why on earth has it taken 25 years to get it.
My guess is he wants to stay out here, and to keep on doing his thing. Maybe he wants to be free of the lodges entirely and run the whole show.
It's taken him 25 years to get things in place to ensure it. In between doing other stuff like rape, murder, generally causing misery and stuff.
My theories? After the tea kettle? Nope.
But if I had seen in some preview the scene where DougieCoop fiddles with the remote, I'd have thought - especially after the "Dreamer" speech - that he would hit a channel airing Twin Peaks reruns. "How's Annie?"
I think we'd be standing outside David Lynch's home now, half of us with pitchforks and the other half with cherry pies and coffee. I'm not sure where I would be, though - maybe still in front of the screen, laughing maniacally until someone dragged me away.
Exterior shot. Las Vegas. Time unknown. We see a person being manufactured – similar to the way we see Dougie Jones being dismantled. When the person is formed we realise it is a manifestation of Laura Palmer but without a personality. A man rushes over shouting “hey! Hey lady! Are you alright? You can’t be out here at this time of night, it’s not safe! Where do you live? What’s your name?” The manifestation looks up and sees an old poster for The Wizard of Oz. It turns to the man and says: “Judy, my name is Judy.”
Conversation,
That is a very fun idea.
There are so many threads that it's difficult to read everyone's theories.
As there's only a few episodes left, I thought it might be good for this to be a repository for the latest theories before the next episode.
And as always, the wackier the theory, the better 😉
Here's mine:
"430, time and time again".
I don't know what 430 means. But "time and again" has a lot of meaning.
"Is it future, or is it past?"
After the most recent episode, when Jeffries says "So you are Cooper", it got me thinking about these two quotes.
What if Mr C is actually the real Cooper, but he is the accumulation of many failed attempts to put things right and find the Experiment / symbol that he's looking for. He's turned dark, determined. He's still got BOB in him this time round, too.
Why is there also a Dougie/Coop? Time runs differently in the lodge. The Coop we know may have been expelled from the lodge many times round. There just happens to be several now.
It's worth me saying that when I watched the original series the first time round, I didn't interpret the finale as a doppelganger escaping and the real Coop trapped in the lodge. I saw it that BOB possessed the real Cooper (the double of Coop was actually BOB chasing after Coop's soul). And so, the real Coop emerged, but his soul was taken over by BOB.
If this is the case, there is no physical doppelganger. I know, all of this is a longshot and full of holes. But it's fun to speculate 😀
So, show us yer theories. Get yer theories out on the table!
I seriously felt the same when "Jeffries" makes that comment. It threw me. I was still thinking division, but I had the feeling that Mr. C was the "true" Cooper, simply because of that comment. Goes against everything we are set up to believe thus far, but there was truth in that statement. But part of me thinks that there is no Jeffries any longer and that the giant is manipulating through the device. I initially thought it was MIKE but now not so certain. That's what Lynch does to you.
I'm not really enamored with developing theories of my own. I like to let each part wash over me and discuss the portions that appealed to me or stimulated me the most. However, I do enjoy helping to support or refute the theories of others.
That said, I have developed two theories: 1.) Sarah and Leland were destined for their interdimensional genes to comingle so as to create a black Lodge entity to end all black Lodge entities. However, the Fireman replied, "Not on my watch!" 2.) As long as the self or shadow self is in the Lodge, the self (or shadow) in the Lodge will retain the memories of the self (or shadow) out and about outside of the Lodge.
Until the above are refuted, I've got no other real theories that I hold onto. I've come to realize that scepticism is the key along with being open to any and all possibilities. I realize that this can present a contradiction (but Lynch & Frost, so . . .).
Why is the Phillip Jeffries scene in FWWM? It’s not because there’s a grand plan at that time and it’s not really even supposed to be thought about (as something to be solved) in the fabric of the film............. Now, in The Return, Lynch is retroactively trying to create a story for something which at the time did not have a specific meaning or purpose. Judy was supposed to be an enigma, now Lynch is writing Judy with a purpose.
For this reason, I think it would be a shame to make Judy fit into any of the pre-existing characters.
Whatever happens though, the way Lynch revived Jeffries gives me complete confidence in his decision-making! The evolution of Jeffries has actually been my favourite moment in the entire show so far.
I don't know if anyone has already addressed what Converstation is Lively wrote in this post. It seems to me that the parts I have highlighted are both the crux of the matter and cause for confusion. Until The Return, the Phillip Jeffries scene from FWWM was a freaky part of the film, which made no sense and served primarily to show the convenience store scene. At least that is mostly what I got from it. Obviously Lynch had no plan that he chose to use, as the PJ part receives no resolution in FWWM and Lynch knew there would be no follow up series or film (at least not any time soon, if ever). So the question is apt, why was the scene in there in the first place?
Now, as TCIL says, the PJ story line has become a big part of the narrative, sometimes to the point where I think it is the central part of the film. I think Lynch must have had some idea in his head at the time, but it went beyond what FWWM could accomplish at that point. JUDY must have been someone in the writer's mind. Lynch may be going beyond his initial ideas and weaving a broader narrative, but I am hoping that "Judy" provides some answers to this mystery, answers that we can find nowhere else.
An interesting point was made by the (very, very good) Time for Cherry Pie And Coffee podcast: Why after 25 years and 15 hours is Mr C all of a sudden interested at all in Judy? This hasn't motivated him at all for all this time. He's been in contact with someone he thought was Jeffries, he's sought him out to find out about the hit put on him and then.... he's asking about Judy!? Seems to come from nowhere!
ps
Why was sooooo much time and effort put into seeking out the coordinates when they were actually all over the place and really easy to find?!
"I've been with Dale, and Laura. The good Dale is in the lodge, and he can't leave. Write it in your diary."
Cooper's doppelgänger escaped the black lodge, not Cooper.
"I've been with Dale, and Laura. The good Dale is in the lodge, and he can't leave. Write it in your diary."
Cooper's doppelgänger escaped the black lodge, not Cooper.
MMMMaybe. Then what is DougieCoop?
Annie is no longer in the Black Lodge, but when she was there, Dale couldn't leave (good Dale). The Return seems to begin with various forces working to get the good Dale out of the lodge, and what we're seeing is the result of that effort. And it's kind of bungled a bit due to evil Cooper's refusal to go back etc.
Time is different in different planes (as we know because Garland Briggs for instance) but that doesn't mean that it disappears altogether. Good Cooper doesn't have to stay in the Black Lodge forever.
An interesting point was made by the (very, very good) Time for Cherry Pie And Coffee podcast: Why after 25 years and 15 hours is Mr C all of a sudden interested at all in Judy? This hasn't motivated him at all for all this time. He's been in contact with someone he thought was Jeffries, he's sought him out to find out about the hit put on him and then.... he's asking about Judy!? Seems to come from nowhere!
I was just thinking about that. Mr C asked Ray why "Jeffries" put the hit on him. Ray answered that Mr C has something "inside " that they want. This must have meant that killing Mr C would free Bob and Jeffries or whoever "they " is would acquire Bob somehow, but the woodzmen somehow circumvented that plan and let Mr C live. Yet we really don't know where Bob is.
At this point, Mr C Isn't sure what is going on or exactly who his enemies are. He knows very little about Jeffries and may have only spoken to him briefly in the past. The only sure memory he has of Jeffries is the one from the FBI Office decades earlier, the memory he inherited from Agent Cooper. That is the only memory of Jeffries that Mr C is now sure was the REAL Jeffries. And in that FBI OFFICE meeting, the real original Jeffries placed great importance on someone named Judy. SO Mr C believes that Judy is someone he has to know about. At this point Mr C perceives Judy as a missing piece of information that be needs/wants.
ps
Why was sooooo much time and effort put into seeking out the coordinates when they were actually all over the place and really easy to find?!
MY thought is that the coordinates he was seeking from Ray were the coordinates to the Convenience Store
An interesting point was made by the (very, very good) Time for Cherry Pie And Coffee podcast: Why after 25 years and 15 hours is Mr C all of a sudden interested at all in Judy? This hasn't motivated him at all for all this time. He's been in contact with someone he thought was Jeffries, he's sought him out to find out about the hit put on him and then.... he's asking about Judy!? Seems to come from nowhere!
Mr C appears to be the kinda dude that wants to be in complete control. Ray's attempted assasination of him along with Jeffries alleged involvement seemed to catch him off guard. Not realizing that he knows Judy (and her supposed role or non-role in the grand scheme) is causing him to question how in control he actually is, IMO.
Fire walk with