Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
Funny cuz the Snoqualmie valley is quite flush with cow patty mushrooms.
Once upon a time, not so long ago, people drilled holes into the heads of psychiatric patients. Had to let the demons out somehow. Now we prescribed mass amounts of drugs. It's all relative.
Funny cuz the Snoqualmie valley is quite flush with cow patty mushrooms.
Once upon a time, not so long ago, people drilled holes into the heads of psychiatric patients. Had to let the demons out somehow. Now we prescribed mass amounts of drugs. It's all relative.
According to my cat:
"Frogs are bad, m'kay?"
But seriously...
Drilling holes in the head to let out demons is based on what measurable evidence?
There is evidence that some types of medication can assist with some kinds of mental illness.
Science works.
In the old days people communed with the Lodges through pyramids and ark of the covenant type stuff. Probably mushrooms and frog-licking, too.
One of my cats ate a frog. Don't know if he communed with a Lodge but a little while after, he was down by the bushes, hurling up his guts.
Never ate another one.
...seeing god the entire time. Bastet, most like.
Funny cuz the Snoqualmie valley is quite flush with cow patty mushrooms.
Once upon a time, not so long ago, people drilled holes into the heads of psychiatric patients. Had to let the demons out somehow. Now we prescribed mass amounts of drugs. It's all relative.
Probably not as rampant, but lots in Michigan too.
Re: head hole drilling
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lkt9TIdpvrY
Lobotomies aren't drilling holes to allow demons to escape, but they at least have a scientific foundation.
Re: drugs - (to continue w/pop cultural references) Dr Gregory House demonstrated the effective medicinal properties of magic cow patty mushrooms in treatments (in that case cluster headaches). They aren't just for spiritual quests and as of now are untouched by Big Pharma.
Yes, Sam, science works.
Painful but effective. Comes with a free haircut.
But seriously...
Drilling holes in the head to let out demons is based on what measurable evidence?
There is evidence that some types of medication can assist with some kinds of mental illness.
Science works.
I'm sure it was very good "science" at the time......seriously.
In 100 years, people will look back and wonder why we doped everybody up instead of doing whatever new and marvelous science they will then possess. And a hundred years after that.......................................
Painful but effective. Comes with a free haircut.
"And she says, 'I like long walks and sci-fi movies
If you're six foot tall and east coast bred
Some lonely night we can get together
And I'm gonna tie your wrists with leather
And drill a tiny hole into your head'"
Ok, Part 8 aside, what about the electrical digs of the black and white lodges? Lamps, gramophones, movie screens, etc.?
I think what Hawk says about the fire symbol in his map is key to this. It's not literally only electricity, as it isn't literally fire that opens the portal to the lodges, but something far deeper than those things plain and simple.
The lodges are drawn supposedly from Native american mythology (in the series, at least, they appear as such), and therefore would've been around for a lot longer than electric lights. Fire, in many pagan mythologies, is a symbol for the spirit (Earth is the body, Water is the blood, Wind is the mind and Fire is the spirit), the metaphysical, the intangible.
In this way, in the days before electricity this thing, this mighty force might have been represented by fire (as in Hawk's map), but as technology evolved - and the context of the map's reading changed, since Hawk was reading the map for a white man in current times - the symbolism goes deeper than this and the "spirit" can be associated with other forms of power such as electricity, but not only literal electricity.
Wow, hope this isn't too confusing...
EDIT: I do believe, however, there is the implicit idea that before electricity the access to other planes of existence would've been harder and possibly only accomplished by few individuals really determined to do so (namely shaamans and their counterparts in other religions), by fate or their own will. It would make sense that electricity is already in itself some form of "corruption" of the spirit forces, and after the H-bomb the balance was thrown off so much that the entrances to the lodges became open (i.e. vortexes in multiple places, the weird location at glastonbury grove, etc)
Ok, Part 8 aside, what about the electrical digs of the black and white lodges? Lamps, gramophones, movie screens, etc.?
Back to the lecture at hand:
As others have mentioned electricity exists whether or not humans learn how to manipulate it. Lodge beings appear to see or exist in the 5th dimension, so linear time ever moving forward isn't something that aligns with their experience with reality. They're also beings that can actualize tulpas, enter other dimensions on a whim, possess humans, annihilate souls and traverse long distances at the blink of an eye, etc. They're using the devices that you listed to communicate with us, humans, at a discrete portion in our timeline because those things are familiar to us. Presumably they use other devices to communicate with humans in our past and likewise in our future.
Science works.
Hi Sam,
Except in Lynch-Land! 😉
- /< /\ /> -
Ok, Part 8 aside, what about the electrical digs of the black and white lodges? Lamps, gramophones, movie screens, etc.?
Back to the lecture at hand:
As others have mentioned electricity exists whether or not humans learn how to manipulate it. Lodge beings appear to see or exist in the 5th dimension, so linear time ever moving forward isn't something that aligns with their experience with reality. They're also beings that can actualize tulpas, enter other dimensions on a whim, possess humans, annihilate souls and traverse long distances at the blink of an eye, etc. They're using the devices that you listed to communicate with us, humans, at a discrete portion in our timeline because those things are familiar to us. Presumably they use other devices to communicate with humans in our past and likewise in our future.
Couldn't agree more emphatically re: the non-human using human technologies to communicate with us (or otherwise collapse distance between the putatively metaphysical and material planes of existence).
Nietzsche's "Telephone from The Beyond" is indeed another favorite Lynchism. Or, perhaps more generally something akin to the Freudian "uncanny," something shockingly unfamiliar penetrating the home/domestic space via something we perceive to be as mundane as the telephone (or ceiling fan, or cellular phone, or personal computer as we've seen in The Return)
Yeah, the electromagnetic force has been around since what, a tiny fraction of a second after the Big Bang?
Science works.
Hi Sam,
Except in Lynch-Land! 😉
- /< /\ /> -
Respectfully, Sam and Ric, I don't think Lynch's aim (nor mine) is to suggest that science doesn't work but rather to point out, as others have here, that science is embedded in history and, as such, with the benefit of hindsight can be shown to have been invalid, misused or abused via ideology , unrestrained industry/ enterprise, or other human frailties. For instance, its negative externalities or unintended consequences all too often go unseen by stakeholders/profiteers in the monetizing of scientific inquiry-- witness, as but one example, the opioid epidemic in the US.
Allegorically, The Return seems to be emphasizing the contingency of human decisions in time, the inadequacy of our capacity to perceive how both good and evil are equal or coeval (i.e., simultaneously present in so much of our activity in the world) and, moreover, that we all too seldom are willing to see morality in terms of our individual and collective activity/actions but instead naively think of good and evil as essential traits of individuals.
Lynch's 'other world' is something like a distorted mirror image of the inadequacy of our perception/understanding of space, time, cause, effect and right action in the world. He plays with science and magic in equal measure to explore humanity, IMO.
Fire walk with 
