The first proper scene in The Return (aside from the vintage clips they play at the beginning) is of Cooper and ??????? conversing (if you want to call it that) in the White Lodge. Well, ??????? is in the White Lodge. Cooper is sort of vidcast there.
Anyhow, it seems several people here think -- not only think, they state as fact -- that the aforementioned scene takes place in the future. In other words, even though we saw it at the beginning, it will likely come as the end.
Now, the first time I read that theory (which really didn't have much to support it), I went back and re-watched that scene. And then I re-watched it again. Nothing about it really stands out to me as being something yet to come. In fact, it seems to fit in nicely as part of the prep-work for Cooper's re-entry into the world. ??????? is telling him to remember times/numbers, and Richard & Linda, and possibly how to handle them.
Could it be something set in the future, rather than the past? Sure..... but only as a loose theory. Yet a lot of folks on here almost treat it as some sort of fact that it is, which I find odd.
Anyone have a solid theory -- and I mean a solid theory -- as to what could make that scene take place in the future/at the end, rather than when we saw it?
At one point it popped into my head that the opening scene would be the final scene. It makes for a nice symmetry. And the"it's in our house now" at the end would mean IMO that the white lodge had things under control, not that it was being invaded. But, yeah, I don't see how those clues would work if the show ended with that scene.
I fall into the "time is running at its normal course" camp.
However, "is it future or is it past?" is the overriding statement that has prompted this theory. It's a very strong statement. It was made for a reason.
It's neither future nor past, it's both.
The first proper scene in The Return (aside from the vintage clips they play at the beginning) is of Cooper and ??????? conversing (if you want to call it that) in the White Lodge. Well, ??????? is in the White Lodge. Cooper is sort of vidcast there.
Anyhow, it seems several people here think -- not only think, they state as fact -- that the aforementioned scene takes place in the future. In other words, even though we saw it at the beginning, it will likely come as the end.
Now, the first time I read that theory (which really didn't have much to support it), I went back and re-watched that scene. And then I re-watched it again. Nothing about it really stands out to me as being something yet to come. In fact, it seems to fit in nicely as part of the prep-work for Cooper's re-entry into the world. ??????? is telling him to remember times/numbers, and Richard & Linda, and possibly how to handle them.
Could it be something set in the future, rather than the past? Sure..... but only as a loose theory. Yet a lot of folks on here almost treat it as some sort of fact that it is, which I find odd.
Anyone have a solid theory -- and I mean a solid theory -- as to what could make that scene take place in the future/at the end, rather than when we saw it?
Hi Matthew,
I don't have a solid theory (doubt anyone has). In spite of the fact that Cooper (Dougie) is already in the real world (is he?) should we assume that he doesn't need to make another interdimensional travel to be back as we knew him? Don't forget that he was tricked and ended up taking the wrong exit. Personally I don't believe he is ever going to "wake up" in Vegas.
So that prep-work you mentioned might not have happened yet (or it did, since time in the lodges might not obey the same rules we are used to). I wouldn't be surprised if we get to see that b&w scene again.
That Gerrard told Dougie to "wake up, don't die" makes me think he does have the ability to wake up and it can happen.
As to whether it will though...
I don't know what are the reasons other people have to think that scene is in the future ...But I will tell you my thoughts about it ....
In that scene between ????? And Cooper, Cooper does not have the FBI pin in his jacket. But in the following scenes in Red Room and "Purple" Room has them until he is transported through the outlet. In the transfer he leaves his shoes (and apparently his FBI pin) because in the following scenes with Jade he no longer has them
The other thing that catches my attention is the way Cooper disappears in this black and white scene, as if he's not physically there... that added to the electric noise at that moment. And remember that The Giant gave Gooper a golden orb (seems like) in season two. Gold has significance beacuse of it's superior electrical conductivity.
The clues that Cooper receives at the Black Lodge seem to have been solved in some way ...
*) "253 time and time again"
it may be 2:53 the return time we saw on the girl's clock in the Purple room or 25 cents 3 times on the casino machines or 2 + 5 = 7 -> 7x3 -> 777 Jackpot ... or all this together are (maybe) 253 time and time again)
"Bob Bob Bob" ... maybe the three murderers ... the bomb, Ike, Tony ... or 3 Bob's (Bob and his children Richard and Linda, but this is another theory. Can be right or wrong)
But the ones Cooper recieve from ??????? We have not seen them yet
*) "430" --- maybe it is a specific time (4:30) or an address (some street 430) or 4 + 3 + 0 = 7 ... but we have not seen anything about this... maybe
*) Richard and Linda (many speculate it's Richard Horne and the Linda from the Fat Trout)
*) Two birds with one stone (maybe it's about Richard and Linda... or about Cooper and Mr C... who knows)
*) "Listen to the sounds" ... (repeated 7 times) if you slow down the audio it seems the sound of the lever of the casino slot machines ... this is the one that makes me doubt About whether isss it fiiiuuuture oor isss iit passssst?
I think: The clues in the red room are for Cooper to survive as Dougie. And the clues from ?????? are to Cooper (already awake) solve something that we dont know yet.
who knows....
The only thing we are sure is that in this third season we can not be guided by the chronological order in which the scenes are presented.... and that is another thing that could help this theory
But time will pass and we may get some answers ... meanwhile our anxiety causes us to have crazy theories and seek answers with the many or few clues we collect ...
And I apologize for my english...
I don't know what are the reasons other people have to think that scene is in the future ...But I will tell you my thoughts about it ....
In that scene between ????? And Cooper, Cooper does not have the FBI pin in his jacket. But in the following scenes in Red Room and "Purple" Room has them until he is transported through the outlet. In the transfer he leaves his shoes (and apparently his FBI pin) because in the following scenes with Jade he no longer has them
The other thing that catches my attention is the way Cooper disappears in this black and white scene, as if he's not physically there... that added to the electric noise at that moment. And remember that The Giant gave Gooper a golden orb (seems like) in season two. Gold has significance beacuse of it's superior electrical conductivity.
The clues that Cooper receives at the Black Lodge seem to have been solved in some way ...
*) "253 time and time again"
it may be 2:53 the return time we saw on the girl's clock in the Purple room or 25 cents 3 times on the casino machines or 2 + 5 = 7 -> 7x3 -> 777 Jackpot ... or all this together are (maybe) 253 time and time again)
"Bob Bob Bob" ... maybe the three murderers ... the bomb, Ike, Tony ... or 3 Bob's (Bob and his children Richard and Linda, but this is another theory. Can be right or wrong)
But the ones you recieve from ??????? We have not seen them yet
*) "430" --- maybe it is a specific time (4:30) or an address (some street 430) or 4 + 3 + 0 = 7 ... but we have not seen anything about this... maybe
*) Richard and Linda (many think it's Richard Horne and the Linda from the Fat Trout)
*) Two birds with one stone (maybe it's about Richard and Linda ... who knows)
*) "Listen to the sounds" ... (repeated 7 times) if you slow down the audio it seems the sound of the lever of the casino slot machines ... this is the one that makes me doubt About whether isss it fiiiuuuture oor isss iit passssst?
I think: The clues in the red room are for Cooper to survive as Dougie. And the clues from ?????? are to Cooper (already awake) solve something that we dont know yet.
who knows....
The only thing we are sure is that in this third season we can not be guided by the chronological order in which the scenes are presented.... and that is another thing that could help this theory
But time will pass and we may get some answers ... meanwhile our anxiety causes us to have crazy theories and seek answers with the many or few clues we collect ...
And I apologize for my english...
Good thoughts here! We're going to have to make visual maps of time and clues to make sense out of the journey through this season after it's all wrapped up.
OK. One thing I'll add about "two birds with one stone." If Richard and Linda are Cooper's children and IF Linda is the pure, innocent, childlike Candie (my theory here: http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/discuss/twin-peaks-part-13/diane-and-mr-c/paged/2/#post-15124 ), then it would be as though Richard and Linda (aka, Candie) are two sides of the same person: a doppelganger-type relationship. Remember Mother spitting out all those stones. Either one stone split into these two people (like a zygote splitting into identical twins), or Bob was the one stone and he begat these two different children. In other words, two birds from one stone.
I've got a lot of "ifs" in there.
I don't know what are the reasons other people have to think that scene is in the future ...But I will tell you my thoughts about it ....
In that scene between ????? And Cooper, Cooper does not have the FBI pin in his jacket. But in the following scenes in Red Room and "Purple" Room has them until he is transported through the outlet. In the transfer he leaves his shoes (and apparently his FBI pin) because in the following scenes with Jade he no longer has them
The other thing that catches my attention is the way Cooper disappears in this black and white scene, as if he's not physically there... that added to the electric noise at that moment. And remember that The Giant gave Gooper a golden orb (seems like) in season two. Gold has significance beacuse of it's superior electrical conductivity.
The clues that Cooper receives at the Black Lodge seem to have been solved in some way ...
*) "253 time and time again"
it may be 2:53 the return time we saw on the girl's clock in the Purple room or 25 cents 3 times on the casino machines or 2 + 5 = 7 -> 7x3 -> 777 Jackpot ... or all this together are (maybe) 253 time and time again)
"Bob Bob Bob" ... maybe the three murderers ... the bomb, Ike, Tony ... or 3 Bob's (Bob and his children Richard and Linda, but this is another theory. Can be right or wrong)
But the ones Cooper recieve from ??????? We have not seen them yet
*) "430" --- maybe it is a specific time (4:30) or an address (some street 430) or 4 + 3 + 0 = 7 ... but we have not seen anything about this... maybe
*) Richard and Linda (many speculate it's Richard Horne and the Linda from the Fat Trout)
*) Two birds with one stone (maybe it's about Richard and Linda... or about Cooper and Mr C... who knows)
*) "Listen to the sounds" ... (repeated 7 times) if you slow down the audio it seems the sound of the lever of the casino slot machines ... this is the one that makes me doubt About whether isss it fiiiuuuture oor isss iit passssst?
I think: The clues in the red room are for Cooper to survive as Dougie. And the clues from ?????? are to Cooper (already awake) solve something that we dont know yet.
who knows....
The only thing we are sure is that in this third season we can not be guided by the chronological order in which the scenes are presented.... and that is another thing that could help this theory
But time will pass and we may get some answers ... meanwhile our anxiety causes us to have crazy theories and seek answers with the many or few clues we collect ...
And I apologize for my english...
Thank you, Martin!
Your English is fine. 🙂
You've done a good job breaking things down. All I will add is that, yes, I do think that, based on what we currently know or can surmise, Richard & Linda are probably Rich Horne and Linda from the New Fat Trout Trailer Park. Thing is, how do they tie into each other, and what is Cooper supposed to do with them?
As for 430, the only reference for it I can remember is when the "farmer" (Billy?) arranges to meet-up with Deputy Andy at 4:30, but then never shows up. Again, though, what that has to do with Cooper, I've no idea.
yes.... but the Andy's meeting with the trucker/farmer/billy (jeje) is faaar aaawaaay... his watch says is 10th (8 days after Jack Rabits Palace) so... that scene takes place in some near future, maybe after coops awakening -according to this "black and white" theory-
Or... It's just Andy being Andy... maybe he is not so good putting that watch in the correct date.
But there's some things about that meeting...
1) the 4-3-0 thing... 4:30 pm
2) if my memory dosn't fail, that exact place is were Laura jumps from James bike and goes thru the woods and then... she is dead wraped in plastic
3) "just passes "Jones's" down by the creek" (like Dougie Jones)
The pin was the driving factor and overall and Cooper is no longer in the waiting room.
He is in the room of the ??????? and he has to get there somewhere. That is why I figure it is in the future and the end. I state it as fact, mainly not because I believe it to be fact but when I work my crazy theories anchored on this I just roll with it as being true.
I feel very strongly that it makes sense and the FBI pin observation was the clincher for me.
Fire walk with