Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
At the beginning of episode 13, we see Dougie dancing with the Mitchums' and girls after a night of partying. Once they enter Mullins office, Mullins tells Dougie to call his wife, Dougie then repeats 'wife' in a joking upbeat kind of way and Sandie and Mandie begin to laugh out loud as if to say 'What wife?', followed by the Mitchums joining in the laughter. The obvious implication is that Dougie cheated on Janey E with one of the Mitchums' girls over the course of that party. Janey E herself is now so contented with social status and money, cars(they always had 'terrible cars' before), etc. now that she has probably completely forgotten about the entire scandal where Dougie was seen cheating with Jade. Its more like a business partnership, or a purchasing, than a marriage.
Also, why was Dougie so obsessed with the dandruff on Anthony's collar? He was getting coffee and pie, following blind consumption impulses, then was somehow also immediately attracted to the white 'dust like' dandruff on Anthony Sinclair's collar. Is this an implication that Dougie was using drugs with the Mitchums et al during the previous night of partying, and that this is something like cherry pie or coffee to him now?
Dougie as hero has its limitations, his independence was on the rise when he raised his fist into a fighting stance, cracked the insurance fraud case, and gave Ike a 'good old karate chop', etc., and was seeming to gain independence, but after the sex scene Dougie is too immersed and lacks any freedom in nature, he is completely dictated by outside stimuli. I guess we can also expect that Mike, or his arm, in the red room will direct Dougie around if his life is threatened though. Yeah, this episode has shown that regarding the Coopers, its not so easy as saying that Dougie is good while Mr. C is bad(good easily becomes bad in many cases). Dougie was in with the mobsters, and humiliated Anthony(who saved his life and broke up the gang fights) with Mullins, who 'doubled down' on the Mitchums and Dougie, thanks to the large payout he received from them. Dougie humiliated Anthony, who was mistakenly thanking Dougie for something he did himself, when he said 'thank Dougie' triumphantly and raised his head in a self-important manner, mimicking Mullins treatment of Anthony. Dougie would follow along basically anything and I think the point is that he 'took the ring', following the lead of the world Mr. C/billionaires leads(as long as he can get pies, etc.). How is Dougie going to save anyone/anything as he is, without some ability like Mr. C to lead, or maintain himself against tyrannous rule, how would he resist if Mr. C told him to 'take the ring', play the game, and shut up, we control, etc.? He just followed Mullins and Mitchums, follows anyone....and 'plays catch'.
If old agent cooper comes back it would have to be a destruction of both of these characters, while Cooper would be more able to distance himself from the Mr. C and Dougie-like 'modes of acting', so they do not get an autonomous life of their own, running to separate extremes without end....Dougie and Mr. C can only exist together/separate, one takes the ring, other forces the ring and has independence over that world which took the ring..........what disappears when they are independent and autonomous, is the public freedom, old community of twin peaks, Laura as prom queen, etc....the middle world of free interaction not determined by natural barbarism and mafia threats
Also, here Candie has made the same move as Dougie(both were in melancholia at the restaurant scene), she was concerned about love and her relation with the Mitchums, concerned about genuine dignity, love, etc, just as Dougie was becoming concerned with justice, law, etc. Candie was upset with the situation, that the Mitchums recognize none of this and Candie was challenging them, first by hitting one with the remote, then by showing she was genuinely sad, then upset, then on the verge of leaving. At the restaurant scene when she was talking about all the nice cars when stuck in a traffic jam(her problem with the Mitchums), indicates that she basically accepted her bad position, now all of the pretty presents she is showing, etc., like the cars in the traffic jam. Candie now seems content, like Dougie, to just enjoy the perks and has given up on her dreams.
The intervening moment of the old 'Mr. Jackpots' woman looking at a sad Dougie during sad music from the casino was the 'third song'(why was something so sad behind her happy behavior?, it is the discontent in seven heaven): between the upbeat 'seven heaven'(winning money, etc.) and the sad melancholia song(giving up all real dreams, like Audrey's 'story about the girl down the lane' in exchange for cars, going to roadhouse, Billy, etc.): the old woman was reunited with her dear son Denver only after she got money and won jackpots, when she was in 'seven heaven'(with money, her little dog, and house), when she was in hell, in 'rancho rosa', he was nowhere to be found. Melancholia(crushing of genuine dreams and aspirations for love, justice, etc.) and 'seven heaven'(being happy upbeat to 'take the ring', hit jackpots, while Mitchums and Mr. C reign in injustice and crush true love): in between melancholia and 'seven heaven' is the old 'jackpots' woman and Denver, merely bought relations and discontent with them, the genunie striving for justice, dignity, etc. that is not satisfied with this world, a discontent which Dougie and Candie displayed prior to the 'viva las vegas' limo ride and the restaurant scene. The mutually bought relations are shallow, do not rise to the level of proper passion or dignity, and 'seven heaven' is only maintained as long as you win the bets(which you are guaranteed to lose after a while), but if by chance you happen to lose and end up in rancho rosa it becomes '119 girl situation', you are abandoned right away, like Anthony who was being forced to commit a murder and had no say in the matter(was being forced on him), just got caught up, did the heroic thing, and is just being sacrificed for Mullins and Dougie's profit/enjoyment. And under the 'seven heaven' is the crushed real aspirations and dreams(taking the ring for Mullins or Mitchums) which only remain hidden while the money/enjoyment can still flow, like Janey E/Dougie et al seem happy, but under that is still what you see in Audrey talking to Charlie and Sarah Palmer in her house. In other words, its a 'damned bad story, isnt it, Hawk?'.
When Dougie said 'dead' after Mullins gave him the playful punch by the limo, this indicates that Dougie's genuine aspirations and problems were also shut down by the authority figures to him. Dougie's role model is Bushnell Mullins(when he looked at Bushnell he made the boxing fist and later gave Ike the karate chop, and also took the case files from Mullins and then uncovered the fraud); but Bushnell Mullins doubled down on his large payout and also doubled down on the Mitchums, glaringly ignoring that they are mobsters, convenient because of the presents and money he will get. Mullins now was going to send Anthony to prison for fraud and working with mobsters, while letting Dougie and himself off the hook for doing the same; when it was Anthony who was being the hero and trying to stop the entire process at the risk of his own life, Anthony in no way should be thanking Dougie or Mullins, he did it himself, taking on the discontent and seeking the justice. Mullins has been corrupted and took down Dougie with him, who is now 'in' with mobsters and following Mullins lead.
The Dougie of justice, karate chop, etc. seems to be 'dead', just like he said before Mullins sent him on his 'viva las vegas' life, making him look at the 'red door' only, not who is providing what he desires and how this affects his desires(what it does to his relations with Janey E, etc., making it a 'bought situation', ignoring rightful relations, true love, etc.). Now Dougie is in 'seven heaven', gambling heaven, just happened to get lucky and win enjoyment/profit and ignore justice, law, etc., take the ring and let everything else be handled by Mitchums and Mullins. But with heaven there is always hell, rancho rosa.....Mr. C and Duncan will be making moves; outside of justice and law no basic dignity, love, law, rights guaranteed(no insurance, insurance is gambling, Lucky 7 insurance), Anthony is being sacrificed, and things can get very ugly for the Mitchums and Dougie/Mullins as well
Controversial theory. I read the first post last night and will now read the second. I need to mull it over. I too was curious why the dandruff drew Dougie's attention, and my first thought was the powder like on powdered donuts. But before that point, when he said "what wife?" I was deeply concerned.
I'm just not sure if the Mitchums are really such terrible guys. By this point, I don't think they're sleeping with Candie/Mandie/Sandie. The Mitchums were orphans, and they took in and employed these orphan girls. Even though they were going to kill Dougie, they had hesitation. They might have just appeared so evil at the beginning of the show because they had been ripped off $30 mil and were angry as hell--and then seeing someone get so many jackpots, there would usually be no other explanation except for being ripped off again.
I'll read your second post and think about it more. But, yeknow, it could very well be that Lynch plans on the real good "Good Cooper" being gone forever. It's so funny I keep on automatically expecting/wanting a happy ending, when that's usually not the Lynch M.O..... Though, maybe this will all turn out more like Blue Velvet.
I'm just not sure if the Mitchums are really such terrible guys. By this point, I don't think they're sleeping with Candie/Mandie/Sandie. The Mitchums were orphans, and they took in and employed these orphan girls. Even though they were going to kill Dougie, they had hesitation. They might have just appeared so evil at the beginning of the show because they had been ripped off $30 mil and were angry as hell--and then seeing someone get so many jackpots, there would usually be no other explanation except for being ripped off again.
The Mitchums are a crime group, they put out 'hits'(ordered killings), for instance when they paid for a hit on 'Ike the spike', kill their rivals(Dougie), and engaged in beatings and intimidation by telling people to 'leave town'. The only reason they had hesitation in killing Dougie was because of the 'dream', and then liked him because of the payout. Also, its not certain that the fire they collected on was actually accidental: its typical that such a crime group would start a fire to make it look accidental in order to collect a large payout(common that buildings with ties to mafia happen to always 'go up in flames'), this attempt may just have been defeated by their rival gang Duncan/Mr. C to make it look like arson regardless of whether or not the Mitchums started the fire on purpose. All Dougie revealed was the manipulation perpetrated on the insurance forms, thus showing what Anthony, the corrupted police, and Duncan/Mr. C's group did through the insurance company; and this would not have revealed whether or not the Mitchums actually started the fire to make it appear accidental in the first place. Mullins was all to happy to 'double down' on the Mitchums and pretend they were not criminals because of the large payout he was receiving thanks to their claim. None of this matters one bit to Dougie or Mullins who are too lost in 'seven heaven', collecting money and gifts, and self satisfaction; while it did bother Anthony, who was trying to 'make things right' at the expense of his life, once he could no longer pretend that this behavior is so innocent.
The Mitchums are a crime group, although a 'quirky' one 'in' with funny man Dougie which might make you feel like they are alright and ignore what they actually do......anytime something goes wrong, they kill or beat the person responsible, and things are guaranteed to go wrong over time.....not everyone who happened to be around when something goes wrong is going to have a 30$ million dollar check for them(like the casino manager who handed over the cash 'Mr. Jackpots' Dougie won from the slot machines). I could easily imagine the Mitchums killing Dougie or Mullins if something goes wrong with another insurance problem in the future....Mullins would basically be forced to pay out to them regardless of whether the claim is legitimate or not.....
I'll read your second post and think about it more. But, yeknow, it could very well be that Lynch plans on the real good "Good Cooper" being gone forever. It's so funny I keep on automatically expecting/wanting a happy ending, when that's usually not the Lynch M.O..... Though, maybe this will all turn out more like Blue Velvet.
I did not mean that Cooper will not be 'good' at all after he comes back to being Agent Cooper proper, but that Dougie and Mr. C will have to be destroyed. 'Something is missing in agent cooper': he wanted a genuine community with justice, genuine relations(ex. Audrey's story 'the little girl down the lane' as seen in the first series vs. what Audrey has become now thanks to the way Twin Peaks really was and how it dealt with problems), etc., Cooper was trying to find community and justice in Twin Peaks, which was 'anywhere but Philadelphia'. The problem that led agent cooper to fall apart is shown in both Dougie and Mr. C: Cooper was all too ready to pretend that Twin Peaks was a genuine community, he wanted to buy property there, etc., this is Dougie, missing all of the problems right under his nose so that he could be happy and pretend that he had finally found a genuine community; Mr. C is the Cooper that reacts to the failure and pain when dealing with injustice or finding out that Laura had genuine problems thanks to Twin Peaks community, problems they ignore and let develop, even enjoy. Mr. C is the Cooper who arrived from Philadelphia, the one that can read through people, unlike the immersed and goofy Dougie who follows people. Mr. C/BOB wants to be within Laura even though Twin Peaks is corrupt and that his whole story goes against being Mr. C, since he wanted justice and genuine community, thus he has pain, but if hiding from his failed story by pretending he is 'really the one in with Laura', the top guy in the corrupted world as corrupt, etc. Both Dougie and Mr. C are different versions of hiding from the 'failed story' of Agent Cooper, trying to be in the world while ignoring that there are 'no stars' that the world is missing something, so that Cooper himself is missing something, both versions of Cooper are hiding from this to pretend everything is alright....
I'm just not sure if the Mitchums are really such terrible guys. By this point, I don't think they're sleeping with Candie/Mandie/Sandie. The Mitchums were orphans, and they took in and employed these orphan girls. Even though they were going to kill Dougie, they had hesitation. They might have just appeared so evil at the beginning of the show because they had been ripped off $30 mil and were angry as hell--and then seeing someone get so many jackpots, there would usually be no other explanation except for being ripped off again.
The Mitchums are a crime group, they put out 'hits'(ordered killings), for instance when they paid for a hit on 'Ike the spike', kill their rivals(Dougie), and engaged in beatings and intimidation by telling people to 'leave town'. The only reason they had hesitation in killing Dougie was because of the 'dream', and then liked him because of the payout. Also, its not certain that the fire they collected on was actually accidental: its typical that such a crime group would start a fire to make it look accidental in order to collect a large payout(common that buildings with ties to mafia happen to always 'go up in flames'), this attempt may just have been defeated by their rival gang Duncan/Mr. C to make it look like arson regardless of whether or not the Mitchums started the fire on purpose. All Dougie revealed was the manipulation perpetrated on the insurance forms, thus showing what Anthony, the corrupted police, and Duncan/Mr. C's group did through the insurance company; and this would not have revealed whether or not the Mitchums actually started the fire to make it appear accidental in the first place. Mullins was all to happy to 'double down' on the Mitchums and pretend they were not criminals because of the large payout he was receiving thanks to their claim. None of this matters one bit to Dougie or Mullins who are too lost in 'seven heaven', collecting money and gifts, and self satisfaction; while it did bother Anthony, who was trying to 'make things right' at the expense of his life, once he could no longer pretend that this behavior is so innocent.
The Mitchums are a crime group, although a 'quirky' one 'in' with funny man Dougie which might make you feel like they are alright and ignore what they actually do......anytime something goes wrong, they kill or beat the person responsible, and things are guaranteed to go wrong over time.....not everyone who happened to be around when something goes wrong is going to have a 30$ million dollar check for them(like the casino manager who handed over the cash 'Mr. Jackpots' Dougie won from the slot machines). I could easily imagine the Mitchums killing Dougie or Mullins if something goes wrong with another insurance problem in the future....Mullins would basically be forced to pay out to them regardless of whether the claim is legitimate or not.....
Ah, right. Thank you. I've been so emmersed in thinking about more recent episodes that I've forgotten their character in the earlier ones. (They used Ike before Duncan hired him?) I need to rewatch everything. Anyway, I'm now chewing on your following post. Very thought provoking! And I now understand better where you're coming from. I was afraid the "what wife" comment was a sign that Real Cooper was being corrupted within Dougie and that that's what you were saying before. The thought of Dougie Coop and Mullins both being just in the dark about what's really going on makes sense.
I just have one other thought though about Dougie Cooper and the dandruff and neck massage. Back when "Real Cooper" briefly appeared and said of Anthony, "he's lying," we saw a little green flash akin to the symbols that led Dougie Coop around the casino. We've seen those kinds of "supernatural" signs or red curtains and MIKE whenever Dougie's life/well being is saved....
As he approaches Anthony's back, we don't see anything "supernatural," but the camera does freeze on a cup of coffee before Dougie Coop begins massaging Anthony. Coffee is about as close to "supernatural" as any normal item gets in the Twin Peaks universe. Could this be a clue that clueless Dougie Cooper is again doing grade-A detetective work without realizing it?
I mean, could Dougie Coop massaging Anthony and leading him to confess be like Dale Cooper leading someone to confess during interrogation?
Were there any scenes in the original in which Agent Cooper got someone to confess info during interrogation (I mean, other than Leland's freakout before dying)?
As he approaches Anthony's back, we don't see anything "supernatural," but the camera does freeze on a cup of coffee before Dougie Coop begins massaging Anthony. Coffee is about as close to "supernatural" as any normal item gets in the Twin Peaks universe. Could this be a clue that clueless Dougie Cooper is again doing grade-A detetective work without realizing it?
There is the link that the dandruff looks like the poison that Anthony had already poured into the coffee, and it is usually after coffee in the morning that Dougie gets his first momentary appearance of inspiration/activity 'listening to Mullins'/raising his fist, saying 'hes lying', etc. Maybe it was that Dougie somehow intuitively knew something was wrong, but instead of the green light, we get just the similar object to the poison(dandruff) attracting his attention. Dougie has one of Agent Cooper's old methods, 'tibetan intution'(the passive and immediate knowledge that 'just comes to you', and you cannot explain it), while Mr. C has the 'reading people all the way through'(how Cooper knew everything about the townspeople he never met before, etc.) intellectual side of the methods.
But I still maintain that it was Anthony who did the work in making the ethical act, since I think he would have done the same regardless of what Dougie was doing, he was clearly uncomfortable and thinking something like 'look at this guy Dougie, he is a real thinking person, with a life, dreams, etc. cannot just take this away from him like this, its murder'. The joke here that Anthony misses and why Anthony gets the wrong end of it here is that Dougie is a 'barely thinking' suburbanite zombie that follows anything no matter how criminal, or what it is; and these types would have had no problems here, especially when their own life was on the line(as it was for Anthony who was given no choice, either kill him or lose your life, but Anthony made his own choice of making things right even if he dies, and turned to Mullins for help), many people by default would even do this for a little money or recognition. Also we have Dougie here then just taking Anthony's coffee as soon as the obstacle(poisoned coffee) is removed, and when Anthony starts desperately apologizing, Dougie seems as if he enjoys that, just like his pie, and later enjoys Anthony suffering and apologizing to him after he has now taken Anthony's role as 'number 1 salesman' and taken his coffee....
Dougie was looking at the cherry pie, a symbol of being 'friends'/in with the Mitchums, right before he looked at the coffee and saw the dandruff, finding a problem with the coffee(couldnt drink it until the 'white power problem' was fixed). And since it was the cherry pie that Dougie was fixated on, the symbol of his enjoyment at being included with a crime gang(like Mike trading garmanbozia with BOB), Dougie acted like a 'Mitchum', used the opportunity of Anthony's ethical act to act as the Mitchums would(take advantage, only his interest, law and right destroyed, make Anthony 'thank him', just as the Mitchums will require that Mullins and Dougie 'thank them' with favors in exchange for the gifts, meaning insurance fraud in favor of Mitchums' criminal business, etc.): Dougie takes Anthony's coffee and his spot of '#1 salesman', take advantage of his position to get in with Mullins, at the cost of Anthony and the legality surrounding the insurance company in general, since Anthony was the one that proposed 'setting things right' and getting rid of the fraud and criminality, but was thrown aside and sacrified in favor of presents and money from the criminal Mitchums, who will be looking for their own advantage primarily, at the cost of Lucky 7 insurance, Mullins, and Dougie. Dougie and Mullins(who was against Anthony because he cost him money and was in with another mafia) are now mafia men, but Mr. C/Duncan will be coming soon for their own 'piece of that pie', not to mention the risk of criminality, being caught by the law(which seems minimal, since the cops are corrupt and incompetent, and the place is 'sin city' and zombified suburbia, a mixture of corruption, obscenity, criminality, desperation, gambling to find a way out, resignation and slow decay into rancho rosa, while top guys collect everything, like casino owners or crime gangs).
Fire walk with 
