Audrey's Psychosis  

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(@gemimamoomin)
Owl
Posted by: Myn0k

Saw this quote online:

"Lynch himself has said the [black lodge] changes based on the person who enters it, meaning it is, like many afterlives, tailored to your personal fears and desires."

Could Audrey be in the black lodge experiencing her own kind of hell?

That's an interesting quote. 

What if the coordinates that Mr C got from Ray were actually those to track down Audrey? Whether he wants to find her to use her to get to Cooper or maybe in connection to Richard if he is in some part lodge spirit, who knows?

She seems genuinely terrified of going to the Roadhouse and  said that Charlie was her protection. Audrey was never one to back down and I can't see her being this scared just leaving the house.

Maybe Audrey is trapped somewhere in another reality or possibly her own version of the Black Lodge.

So many questions, but that's why I love TP!

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Posted : 08/08/2017 6:20 pm
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: GemimaMoomin
Posted by: Myn0k

Saw this quote online:

"Lynch himself has said the [black lodge] changes based on the person who enters it, meaning it is, like many afterlives, tailored to your personal fears and desires."

Could Audrey be in the black lodge experiencing her own kind of hell?

That's an interesting quote. 

What if the coordinates that Mr C got from Ray were actually those to track down Audrey? Whether he wants to find her to use her to get to Cooper or maybe in connection to Richard if he is in some part lodge spirit, who knows?

She seems genuinely terrified of going to the Roadhouse and  said that Charlie was her protection. Audrey was never one to back down and I can't see her being this scared just leaving the house.

Maybe Audrey is trapped somewhere in another reality or possibly her own version of the Black Lodge.

So many questions, but that's why I love TP!

Interesting idea!  Recall "Existentialism 101" from Charlie and Jean-Paul Sartre's 'Hell is other people...'  Pretty compelling hypothesis, IMO

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Posted : 08/08/2017 6:25 pm
(@wow-brad-wow)
Dweller

My two cents:

I wonder if they finally built Ghostwood estates and in the process disrupted the nature of things and that has released more evil into Twin Peaks 

Has anybody called Red by his name? Could he be Billy?

my other new guess for billy is the man with the glove that hangs around with James

when all is said and done I want Charlie to remove his mask and reveal Catherine Martell as she yells, 'dummy, it's me!'

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Posted : 09/08/2017 9:12 am
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: charlesheld

That house's decor is right out of 1973.

Totally. Charlie was using a rotary phone last week. Those are kinda useless nowadays. Perhaps the decor suggests this is either very elaborately set up to recreate Audrey's early childhood, or it's in her dreams/subconscious.

 

EDIT: Or it's just Lynch painting a picture without anything in mind.

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Posted : 09/08/2017 2:31 pm
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Patrick Dunn

I got the idea that Charlie is the writer (of the show, or of Audrey's destiny, or something).  That's what the "end your story" line indicated to me, like that one Twilight Zone episode.  It was also telling that Audrey expressed a sense of displacement, and that the characters were in much the same position as last week - she standing, he sitting (although Audrey did get to sit down this time, so there was some movement).  And, no resolution, or connection to any other plot line.

Charlie said something like, "Do I need to end your story too?" Well, the writers did end the stories of everyone else involved in that explosion, as well as Josie and many others from Seasons 1+2. Hmmmmm

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Posted : 09/08/2017 2:35 pm
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Chris Gorgon

Perhaps there's also commentary here related to gender and aging. For whatever reason, men are 'allowed' to age in society without judgement, while women(especially actors) can be judged more harshly after their youthful looks fade. And it's a fact that people have commented negatively on Sherilyn Fenn's looks at her age.

But she can't be who she was in 1990, no matter how safe it might feel to mentally stay in that space.

True. And I keep on being tempted by a theory that Candie is Diane's "good" doppelganger, but such a plot would display the very sexism you describe. If Lynch were to do anything displaying or alluding to that sexism, he would know it himself and he would be critiquing/lampooning it. This discussion about Audrey being trapped in the viewers' minds (or any aging person being trapped in their own minds, wanting to stay young but also wanting to mature) is very intriguing!

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Posted : 09/08/2017 2:42 pm
(@100monkeys)
Dweller

All i know is her (Sherilyn Fenn) acting was sublime!

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Posted : 09/08/2017 2:49 pm
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Murat Erol Özkan

Audrey was caught in a repetitive loop of her defeat(like Sarah watching the boxer get knocked down over and over), and revenge against husband, going to bars, finding Billy, harming herself more and more with no progress, drinking, promiscuity as the golden shovel leads you back to the shit(Sarah palmer trapped in the house, like Audrey trapped in her direct loop, lost deep in the woods etc.)  Charlie is trying to make her confront this problem inside of herself, he stops talking and makes her look at herself(like Dougie and Sinclair), then he tells her that she should go to the bar so that her first reaction will be to disobey, thus making her confront what she really wants other than going to the bar and getting revenge on the man who harmed her(Mr. C or Wheeler).  She then asks Charlie for help, but he refuses this, refuses to be a savior, good move, since it will not help her, but just be a 'golden shovel', a 'billy' that is only temporary and the problem grows.  Audrey then feels like she is lost deep in the woods/ghostwood, then remembers 'her' story, 'the little girl down the lane', the same Audrey from the original series that was special for Agent Cooper, smart, etc.  So she is coming back to her desire(shown by James here, the persistence of desire, etc.) after being harmed by a Mr. C-like person, but will she take the ring, think that things are just bad now, that she will have to give up her dream by compromising to fit with Mr. C-Wheeler. The world is providing her the same destructive loop that Mr. C-Wheeler initiated in her, after 'killing' her desire and making her wear the ring(like Ray), ending her story that she is now remembering, so are there stars, these stars, is this nature/green/formica table etc., or are there 'no stars'(Charlie's silence) and the space to go back to 'her story', regardless of the impositions of an unjust world?

Mr. C is just like the 'money man' Walter here, telling Norma to 'compromise her pies'(her love and care that makes them 'extra special', what is special in Norma etc.), and Norma betrays her love Big Ed for this guy easily, just like she did for Hank prior, and just like Shelly did against Bobby for Red, the drug dealing big money man, why?  Norma, Shelly, 'lost their story', their true desire/love, etc., by some man that hurt them(like Sarah Palmer on repeat reliving the defeat, getting hit down in a boxing match), like a Mr. C that came in and destroyed their life(Diane); but yet they still are driven to love/desire(James' song), but now they are being told to 'take the ring' by the same types that harmed them(just like Mike gave the ring to Laura) by people like Red and Walter....forget about love/desire, compromise it, this is just the way the world is, corrupted, rotten, always going to be like this, you can just defend yourself some, try to be shallow, cheap, and cruel like us, this is nature/the state of things, tyranny, forget justice, true love, dont be 'true to yourself and your pies', just enjoy this money, take the gold shovel, gamble some, do what you can, if you end up in rancho rosa/shit again, well thats how it is, too bad, etc., while money/enjoyment gets funneled to Walter, Mullins, Mitchums, Mr. C, etc.  Yet there are 'no stars', this is not just 'how it is', can break out of this just like Mr. C or Richard, painful to face it(as Audrey is seeing), but can remember that story and stand for it(for Audrey, of the 'girl down the lane', what she was in the first series before Wheller or Mr. C 'broke her'), rather than 'taking the ring', accepting the tyranny of some 'money men' as 'just how it is'.  Bobby and Ed were trying to get back to breaking out of the tyranny(Bobby 'finding the major', Ed going back with his true love Norma), but after seeing the reign of 'money men' over Norma, Ed is trying to hide his desire burning his 'coordinates to Jack rabbits palace'(place of dreams, how a man should be, etc.) his desire because of how the world is.  James here doesnt seem to go through the 'no stars' so that he can assert it properly(like Audrey was doing with Charlie), but just giving a gloss that everything is alright 'the way it is' and seeking desire there where it has no place in the 'way things are'(Audrey going to the bar), we will see what happens when he hits the 'money men', seems as if James 'took the ring', just a Dougie....with no Mr. C in him..... or did his 'being quiet' give him that time to really see the 'no stars' or 'being lost in ghostwood'..

Very interesting. Thanks for writing all that out. I will ponder. (And I especially enjoyed the bit about the shovel... If you dig yourself out of the shit like Dr. Amp does, how are you gonna climb up out of the giant mounds of shit you've built around you?)

The one counterpoint I'd make to your thinking is this: Agent Dale Cooper was the paragon of goodness and justice. He wasn't driven by money at all. Even though he's currently in a stupor, look at the incredibly good karma that is helping him and saving him almost every week. Maybe there is some worth in following the dream... And even though my friends tell me I shouldn't take Lynch moralistically, he does practice transcendental meditation, he uses lots of symbols from eastern religions, and I wouldn't be surprised if he truly did write the Dougie story with the concept of karma in mind. 

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Posted : 09/08/2017 2:52 pm
(@arcadesonfire)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: The conversation is lively

I am currently writing about how sexual difference is just as constructed as gender even though biology is supposed to be something concrete and stable that gender 'floats above' in the social realm. In fact, biology is deeply unstable ground on which to establish any kind of identity. Chromosomes, hormones and yes, genitalia are not indication of sex, actually. I understand the distinction between wanting gender fluidity rather than gender abolition. What's great is that trans and nonbinary experiences are not homogenous. 

did I really just write this on the WTTwinPeaks form?!?!

Considering Agent Denise Bryson 25 years ago and then earlier in this season, I think your post is perfectly on-topic for this show.

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Posted : 09/08/2017 2:59 pm
(@alfred)
Owl

Hi. First post from me.

I don't have any theories that will solve this question, but I have som stray observations and associations regarding this scene:

The name "Ghostwood" sounds to me like a translation of a a native name for a place connected to the spirit world (the word "ghost" was often used by english-speaking settlers to refer to native concepts of spirits of different kinds) and a quote referring to Ghostwood could probably be referring to the spirit world more than just another forest.

Is this just in my mind, or is the Roadhouse often a stop for people coming in or going out of the woods? In that case I wonder if "supposed to go to the Roadhouse" implies getting out o the woods/spiritual realm too (no idea how Audrey got there though if that would be the case - if she didn't go there looking for her special agent...)

I saw someone else writing about Lynch relating spiritual connection to atypical physical properties. Can there be some kind of "other-bodily"/"other-wordly" hint in Charlies physical appearance? Is it somehow a hint towards The Man from Another Place?

I also found Audrey's reflection behind Charlie's armchair/sofa very disturbing. Somehow it reminded me of BOB's appearing behind furniture of different sorts in the Palmers' house...

 

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Posted : 09/08/2017 5:28 pm
(@mj_gilbert)
Deputy
Posted by: Jesse Newkirk
Posted by: charlesheld

That house's decor is right out of 1973.

Totally. Charlie was using a rotary phone last week. Those are kinda useless nowadays. Perhaps the decor suggests this is either very elaborately set up to recreate Audrey's early childhood, or it's in her dreams/subconscious.

 

EDIT: Or it's just Lynch painting a picture without anything in mind.

And again I say- 1973? Are you kidding? Is that really what you think 1973 looked like?? Try 1943! No TV. Old time radio. There were touch tone phones in 1973! 1973 decor would have been bright colors, plaid sofa, console tv/stereo. You want to see what 1973 looks like,  take advantage of your Showtime subscription and watch I'm Dying Up Here.

I AM the FBI.

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Posted : 09/08/2017 7:01 pm
(@samxtherapy)
Detective
Posted by: MJ Gilbert
Posted by: Jesse Newkirk
Posted by: charlesheld

That house's decor is right out of 1973.

Totally. Charlie was using a rotary phone last week. Those are kinda useless nowadays. Perhaps the decor suggests this is either very elaborately set up to recreate Audrey's early childhood, or it's in her dreams/subconscious.

 

EDIT: Or it's just Lynch painting a picture without anything in mind.

And again I say- 1973? Are you kidding? Is that really what you think 1973 looked like?? Try 1943! No TV. Old time radio. There were touch tone phones in 1973! 1973 decor would have been bright colors, plaid sofa, console tv/stereo. You want to see what 1973 looks like,  take advantage of your Showtime subscription and watch I'm Dying Up Here.

And for comparison, take a look at Diane's apartment.  That's pure 1960s.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum

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Posted : 09/08/2017 8:14 pm
(@chris_gorgon)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: Jesse Newkirk
Posted by: Chris Gorgon

Perhaps there's also commentary here related to gender and aging. For whatever reason, men are 'allowed' to age in society without judgement, while women(especially actors) can be judged more harshly after their youthful looks fade. And it's a fact that people have commented negatively on Sherilyn Fenn's looks at her age.

But she can't be who she was in 1990, no matter how safe it might feel to mentally stay in that space.

True. And I keep on being tempted by a theory that Candie is Diane's "good" doppelganger, but such a plot would display the very sexism you describe. If Lynch were to do anything displaying or alluding to that sexism, he would know it himself and he would be critiquing/lampooning it. This discussion about Audrey being trapped in the viewers' minds (or any aging person being trapped in their own minds, wanting to stay young but also wanting to mature) is very intriguing!

Thanks.  It may just be a reading that wasn't part of the author's intent.  However, the first part of that conversation between A and C is about *identity*.  Which is something Lynch plays with in a lot of his stuff.  

But I do wonder what would it do to your sense of self if you woke up after a 25 year coma and saw a much older person in the mirror?  Would you see you, or would you wonder a little who that person is?  Audrey is expressing these exact feelings. 

And then of course going to the meta level, we have a character that's been shelved for over 25 years now suddenly back onscreen having noticeably aged and changed.  Maybe it's a funny kind of answer to the "what happened to Audrey in the past 25 years?" question.  In a literal sense, nothing really...although time has also passed.  

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Posted : 09/08/2017 10:31 pm
(@seattle-swede)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: MJ Gilbert
Posted by: charlesheld

That house's decor is right out of 1973.

Excuse me, the decor in that house is right out of 1943.

1943 is just about perfect--I was thinking possibly up until 1953.  Now, if you were of my grandparents generation, that was right about their middle age years when home decor kind of froze in time, and, here in the states anyway, would have suspended unchanged possibly up to the late 60s.  

"Brings back some memories"

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Posted : 09/08/2017 10:57 pm
(@seattle-swede)
RR Diner Patron
Posted by: 100monkeys

All i know is her (Sherilyn Fenn) acting was sublime!

Fenn's first appearance tired me out.  That was my fault.  

Her second appearance knocked me out.  I believe she has the deepest and most existential story that we may or may not get to see revealed.  She and Charlie...and ?  

Man, watching her now I get this feeling that she is a whole show by herself.

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Posted : 09/08/2017 11:05 pm
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