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(@melville-pembrokehurst)
Dweller

I've been reading this forum for quite some time now, and there's one thing that consistently annoys me... but we'll get to that later. For now, let me just say I have nothing against you if you dislike The Return. I don't care. All the more for me. Now, onto my main points.

1. Directors do not have to cater to you! It's all very well and good to say how you would have done it, and how you expect film to work, but at the end of the day, directors have to cater to no-one! As long as they enjoy it, that's all that matters. If you enjoy it, well that's just a plus.

2. This is the big one... If you dislike The Return, why are you still here?! Obviously I welcome different opinions, but it gets tiresome reading through every single one of these threads saying that Lynch didn't do something exactly to their standard. You can have your opinion... doesn't mean I have to read the same one again and again. But this is what really annoys me... when people ask "Why are you still here?" the answer I commonly see is, "I have faith in Lynch."

Really? I'm not going to throw "You just don't appreciate Lynch" at you or anything like that, but last I heard, constant criticism of the way someone does things, is not really having faith in them...

I just wanted to get my 20 cents on the matter across, and no thread I'd seen had adequately addressed the points I wanted to get across.

Sorry if I seem angry, but I'd like to finish with one of my favourite quotes from anything. In an episode of Doctor Who (specifically, Resurrection of the Daleks) Tegan recalls something her Aunt Vanessa used to say "If you stop enjoying it, give it up." This applies to so many things, not the least of which is this show...

Just think. If you despise it and don't see it bringing you any enjoyment, why keep watching? Thank you for reading the musings of an angry old man.

“Harry, I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don’t plan it. Don’t wait for it. Just let it happen. It could be a new shirt at the men’s store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot black coffee.” - Dale Cooper

Quote
Posted : 01/08/2017 5:08 pm
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: TheArmFromAnotherPlace

I've been reading this forum for quite some time now, and there's one thing that consistently annoys me... but we'll get to that later. For now, let me just say I have nothing against you if you dislike The Return. I don't care. All the more for me. Now, onto my main points.

1. Directors do not have to cater to you! It's all very well and good to say how you would have done it, and how you expect film to work, but at the end of the day, directors have to cater to no-one! As long as they enjoy it, that's all that matters. If you enjoy it, well that's just a plus.

2. This is the big one... If you dislike The Return, why are you still here?! Obviously I welcome different opinions, but it gets tiresome reading through every single one of these threads saying that Lynch didn't do something exactly to their standard. You can have your opinion... doesn't mean I have to read the same one again and again. But this is what really annoys me... when people ask "Why are you still here?" the answer I commonly see is, "I have faith in Lynch."

Really? I'm not going to throw "You just don't appreciate Lynch" at you or anything like that, but last I heard, constant criticism of the way someone does things, is not really having faith in them...

I just wanted to get my 20 cents on the matter across, and no thread I'd seen had adequately addressed the points I wanted to get across.

Sorry if I seem angry, but I'd like to finish with one of my favourite quotes from anything. In an episode of Doctor Who (specifically, Resurrection of the Daleks) Tegan recalls something her Aunt Vanessa used to say "If you stop enjoying it, give it up." This applies to so many things, not the least of which is this show...

Just think. If you despise it and don't see it bringing you any enjoyment, why keep watching? Thank you for reading the musings of an angry old man.

Ooh... Couldn't agree more.  We had it out over this in a big way over here  ...

The consensus we arrived at is that the impatient/frustrated and the armchair quarterbacks have as much of a right to discuss their feelings here as do the participants hoping for more substantive discussions involving the exchange of questions, analysis, and interpretation.

The web, generally, is populated by trolls, I'm afraid...  As I said elsewhere, audience opinions in the aggregate are, arguably, important as they drive decisions like that which Showtime made (I'm still bewildered by this....) on The Return. If aggregate audience opinions are important, individual audience opinions merely make one feel important...  Hence the armchair quarterbacks.  Afraid we're stuck with them! 

But maybe things will improve as folks get more practice with The Return...  Or, the disillusioned will simply jump ship... 

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Posted : 01/08/2017 5:16 pm
(@samxtherapy)
Detective
Posted by: TheArmFromAnotherPlace

I've been reading this forum for quite some time now, and there's one thing that consistently annoys me... but we'll get to that later. For now, let me just say I have nothing against you if you dislike The Return. I don't care. All the more for me. Now, onto my main points.

1. Directors do not have to cater to you! It's all very well and good to say how you would have done it, and how you expect film to work, but at the end of the day, directors have to cater to no-one! As long as they enjoy it, that's all that matters. If you enjoy it, well that's just a plus.

2. This is the big one... If you dislike The Return, why are you still here?! Obviously I welcome different opinions, but it gets tiresome reading through every single one of these threads saying that Lynch didn't do something exactly to their standard. You can have your opinion... doesn't mean I have to read the same one again and again. But this is what really annoys me... when people ask "Why are you still here?" the answer I commonly see is, "I have faith in Lynch."

Really? I'm not going to throw "You just don't appreciate Lynch" at you or anything like that, but last I heard, constant criticism of the way someone does things, is not really having faith in them...

I just wanted to get my 20 cents on the matter across, and no thread I'd seen had adequately addressed the points I wanted to get across.

Sorry if I seem angry, but I'd like to finish with one of my favourite quotes from anything. In an episode of Doctor Who (specifically, Resurrection of the Daleks) Tegan recalls something her Aunt Vanessa used to say "If you stop enjoying it, give it up." This applies to so many things, not the least of which is this show...

Just think. If you despise it and don't see it bringing you any enjoyment, why keep watching? Thank you for reading the musings of an angry old man.

Quoted for agreement.  I said elsewhere we should respect others' opinions - and I do - but I really wonder why some people keep watching and then complain things aren't going the way they wanted.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum

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Posted : 01/08/2017 5:20 pm
(@lynn_watson)
Roadhouse Regular

Or complain & then ask you to justify why you're enjoying it...!?
Oh, I think I may just have other things I'd like to be doing!  🙂

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/08/2017 5:31 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy

It's ironic because if the show and every episode were somehow magically optimised to appeal to every single person on the planet (impossible, obviously) then I'm sure certain people would still find something about the show to complain about. Namely that it's too safe or not risky enough. Or that Lynch sold out. 

There will always be people who complain about something. Their mistake is that they're making the show about them; that's where they go wrong, because they are let down once their expectations don't arise as personally desired, and thus it stifles their enjoyment of the show. It's not just TV, it's everything in life. I gave up being a manager of people because of that same fundamental flaw in human behaviour - people make everything about themselves amd get stressed about transient things over which they have absolutely no control and which doesn't even matter in the grand scheme of things anyway. And the reality is that absolutely nothing in the world has anything to do with them anyway, apart from the small bubble of interaction in which they can affect some change. Most of which, by the way, tends to be about making things about them

I appreciate a sense of irony to my post is about my disdain for human behaviour in general. But I am a flawed human like the rest of them 🙂

My rant is over now 🙂

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Posted : 01/08/2017 5:31 pm
(@agent-cooper)
RR Diner Patron

I have never understood why people waste their time writing negative stuff about something they dont like. I was raised if you dont have something nice to say dont say anything at all.

   I dont understand half the shows that most the mainstream seem to love anyway. I'd rather watch paint dry or a fish fart than watch "Game of Thrones" or "2 and Half Men". I like shows that are different, weird atmosphere driven, parts of it left up to my interpretation of what i saw and make me think about it all day after i watch it. Thats why I love Twin Peaks!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/08/2017 5:47 pm
elesea-honu, Karen, groofay and 3 people liked
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator

I'm curious if giving negative opinion or critique falls into this discussion. 

I struggle with the 1st part of the the post.  Yes, of course they do it for themselves, especially those considered artists instead of hack's just trying to make a million dollars. I don't complain a whole lot, but I do have some frustration with things happening at times in the show and I come here to look for answers, adjustments or just like minded people which can be very supportive. Additionally, often just discussing and reading can help the process to understanding.  I have often logged on agitated about something, only to read that others are agitated as well.  I read their analyses (trying to stay away from the blatant negativity) and I often start to see things differently.

You stated "It's all very well and good to say how you would have done it, and how you expect film to work, but at the end of the day, directors have to cater to no-one!" If it's all very well and good, then what is the point of the argument? Never have I been under the illusion that David Lynch was going to call me up and ask what he could have done better or what he should do next. He's gonna do what he's gonna do, and we all are gonna do what we all are gonna do.

Part of this I think goes for the 2nd statement/argument.  Sometimes you just need to vent, sometimes you just need people to hear you.  I for one love The Return and have never wavered on that.  I don't however love every  minute of it and as already said, have had some frustration/agitation, especially with this last part. Additionally, I have not been terribly quiet about some specific things/characters I really dislike. I am entitled to my opinion and my posts just the same as you are, as evidenced by your original post.

It's not for everybody, but maybe they are at least trying to understand.

Keep in mind, this does not include the couple trolls who are either kinda crazy or the few that just keep logging on and saying something provocative that insights much response and gets them attention. I wish we would all just flat out ignore those and maybe they would just go away when they don't get the attention they are looking for. (thus why I stay away from the

That all being said, I welcome different opinions and perspectives.  I love the possibilities and the insights and feel this would be a much less interesting experience without the dissent.

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Posted : 01/08/2017 5:50 pm
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Brian Snoke

I have never understood why people waste their time writing negative stuff about something they dont like. I was raised if you dont have something nice to say dont say anything at all.

   I dont understand half the shows that most the mainstream seem to love anyway. I'd rather watch paint dry or a fish fart than watch "Game of Thrones" or "2 and Half Men". I like shows that are different, weird atmosphere driven, parts of it left up to my interpretation of what i saw and make me think about it all day after i watch it. Thats why I love Twin Peaks!

The phrase "watch paint dry or a fish fart" made me laugh out loud... so much so that I think I may have farted a little.  Brilliant choice of words!

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/08/2017 5:50 pm
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: Brandy Fisher

I'm curious if giving negative opinion or critique falls into this discussion. 

I struggle with the 1st part of the the post.  Yes, of course they do it for themselves, especially those considered artists instead of hack's just trying to make a million dollars. I don't complain a whole lot, but I do have some frustration with things happening at times in the show and I come here to look for answers, adjustments or just like minded people which can be very supportive. Additionally, often just discussing and reading can help the process to understanding.  I have often logged on agitated about something, only to read that others are agitated as well.  I read their analyses (trying to stay away from the blatant negativity) and I often start to see things differently.

You stated "It's all very well and good to say how you would have done it, and how you expect film to work, but at the end of the day, directors have to cater to no-one!" If it's all very well and good, then what is the point of the argument? Never have I been under the illusion that David Lynch was going to call me up and ask what he could have done better or what he should do next. He's gonna do what he's gonna do, and we all are gonna do what we all are gonna do.

Part of this I think goes for the 2nd statement/argument.  Sometimes you just need to vent, sometimes you just need people to hear you.  I for one love The Return and have never wavered on that.  I don't however love every  minute of it and as already said, have had some frustration/agitation, especially with this last part. Additionally, I have not been terribly quiet about some specific things/characters I really dislike. I am entitled to my opinion and my posts just the same as you are, as evidenced by your original post.

It's not for everybody, but maybe they are at least trying to understand.

Keep in mind, this does not include the couple trolls who are either kinda crazy or the few that just keep logging on and saying something provocative that insights much response and gets them attention. I wish we would all just flat out ignore those and maybe they would just go away when they don't get the attention they are looking for. (thus why I stay away from the

That all being said, I welcome different opinions and perspectives.  I love the possibilities and the insights and feel this would be a much less interesting experience without the dissent.

Couldn't agree more, Brandi.  Differences of opinion enrich the forum when we try to bridge them through dialogue, discussion, asking each other questions, etc.  I think we're mostly calling out a kind of "Judge first, make sure everybody knows how you feel about the new episode, ask questions...never" sort of a disposition...  

I should add that, in part 12, Dr. Jacoby's rants achieve a new level of vulgarity ("selling us down the river" from a white doctor and "f*cking us in the a*") that offers a pretty terrific send up of online trolls (and a send up of Scaramucci's rant to Ryan Lizza last week, avant la lettre...)  

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Posted : 01/08/2017 5:55 pm
(@colin_basterfield)
RR Diner Patron

Bear with me on this please.

I've been looking for work recently and have been rejected a number of times. On one hand I felt like a loser, but on the other I decided it wasn't fair for me to own all of it, i.e. it was all my fault, so I figured out how I could inspect and adapt myself to better carry my message, namely why they should hire me. The rest is entirely up to them, to know what problems they think they need help solving and challenges to overcome. In addition they need to know how to go about teasing that out of me.

So in conclusion, and speaking to the rejectionists. I can disagree with their opinion, but I can't disagree with their experience.

If people's experience was one of impatience at arriving at part 12, in particular, then like hatred it is entirely their own suffering and only they can choose how to manage that.

David Lynch as a director and writer alongside Mark Frost have a story to tell and holding staunch with that vision through the whole process is mind-glowingly difficult, given all the expectations after 25+ years. They chose this in all its weirdness. I have had to adapt my own expectations through letting go and yielding to the way they've chosen to tell us what happened to Dale Cooper after he posed the question, 'How's Annie? How's Annie?'

In addition to choosing how we react to this, and anything these days, I'll make a confession. I'm on Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn. (That's not the confession btw). I scroll through the feeds daily, often multiple times daily. I often see an article I like, but rather than read it there and then I save the link to my browser bookmarks deluding myself I'll look at it later. I don't make the time to read the article right then because I'm in a scrolling feed(ing) frenzy for I don't know what... I am personally convinced, or at least I've convinced myself my patience, as a result of the instant gratification of social media has reduced significantly. I therefore also believe that David Lynch among many other social comments in this Return is making this point, i.e. slow the eff down and savour this, especially now with only six episodes left, noting we never thought we'd get any let alone 18 hours.

If I think of people who seemingly aren't enjoying this Return for whatever reason, I think of a masochist who says, 'hit me,' the sadist replies, 'No.' I also think of 'Hit me again, I like it when it stops.'

One last point, I am still delighted to be part of such a respectful group of people, who've stepped above the gutter to keep this group healthy in all the differences of opinion and  dissent, and there is a difference between dissent and disloyalty.

There. Bring on part 13... I'm sure it'll strike me as funny. (Coop to Harry in the Missing Pieces)

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Posted : 01/08/2017 5:56 pm
(@garymc)
Dweller

I'm on the verge of very big moan about the people who moan about the people who moan who moan about the people who moan ad infinitum....

ReplyQuote
Posted : 01/08/2017 5:58 pm
(@myn0k)
Deputy

Not only have Lynch and Frost created IMO a masterpiece, but they've created a mini universe of political discussion with its own inner workings in this very forum 😀

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Posted : 01/08/2017 5:59 pm
elesea-honu, groofay, GaryMc and 3 people liked
(@badalamenti-fan)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: GaryMc

I'm on the verge of very big moan about the people who moan about the people who moan who moan about the people who moan ad infinitum....

Touché!  Well played, Gary...   I should clarify that my beef was never with you to begin with...   it's more of the one- or two- line judgments that get my goat .... 

It's "hot-take" culture, if you ask me, whereby one tweets what one thinks regardless of who is listening or who else cares...  "New TP isn't as good as old TP..." or whatever

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Posted : 01/08/2017 6:02 pm
GaryMc liked
(@lynn_watson)
Roadhouse Regular
Posted by: GaryMc

I'm on the verge of very big moan about the people who moan about the people who moan who moan about the people who moan ad infinitum....

Oooh, I'm sure that'll get you trapped in a doorknob!  😉

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Posted : 01/08/2017 6:05 pm
groofay, James M Sweeney, GaryMc and 2 people liked
(@b-randy)
Chief Moderator
Posted by: Badalamenti Fan

 

I should add that, in part 12, Dr. Jacoby's rants achieve a new level of vulgarity ("selling us down the river" from a white doctor and "f*cking us in the a*") that offers a pretty terrific send up of online trolls (and a send up of Scaramucci's rant to Ryan Lizza last week, avant la lettre...)  

Yeah, I just steer clear of that stuff.  I choose carefully what I read and my level of involvement. That is why I love this forum so much.  Never have a I seen such a majority of respectful and insightful people who rarely are reduced to extreme ugliness, even with differing opinions. Trolls will be trolls and they will always manage to sneak in and cause their bits of chaos.  But with this clan, they don't get far because most of the people here aren't just looking for a fight.

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Posted : 01/08/2017 6:15 pm
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