Around the dinner table, the conversation was lively. Thank you but for now, the forum has been archived.
Nicely stated kdawg.
My interpretation would be the vulnerability is the magnet for violence and evil here. Is what happened to women like the trailer-beating in episode 10 really that much worse than the tortured life that Leland Palmer lived? How would you rather go out, all things being equal? Either killed by a deranged acquaintance over having witnessed a crime, or conscious of the fact that you repeatedly raped your own daughter from the time she was 11-years old? When viewed in that context, one is decidedly worse than the other, at least in my mind.
Of course, at the heart of this entire drama is how much the latter of the above "allowed" what happened to happen, rather than be a truly innocent "victim" of Bob's doings - but that theme permeates all of Twin Peaks-dom. To a certain extent, everyone makes their bed.
And we've seen plenty of "strong women" characters. From the scheming Catherine Martel of the original series, to the scheming Audrey Horne. Essentially the female equivalents of Ben Horne and all the shady male characters we've met in terms of knowing what they want and stopping at nothing to get it.
I have this notion though about what the OP is describing. It seems to me that Lynch has been very much inspired by the passing of Stan Kubrick. We've already had the 2001-esque "stargate journey" sort of redone with the atomic bomb test in episode 8. Now what we're seeing seems a direct tribute to A Clockwork Orange, with the most obvious visual being the bound and tied Johnny Horne being unable to render assistance while his mother is beaten and degraded by a home intruder.
But if you really go back and pay attention to A Clockwork Orange, I think one of the undercurrent themes there is an illustration of the sort of Jungian way that the male subconscious works. This might sound unsettling to some, and at the risk of bloviating I'll make it as simple as can be. Deep in the male subconscious, especaially as depicted in our dreams, women appear to us in what are usually one of two common forms; either they are motherly/teacherly and give us direction, or the are objects of sexual desire/conquest. Those are the archtypes. And there's a bit of that going on in the world of Twin Peaks here. Consider that we have numerous characters who fit the "motherly" bill - which keep in mind doesn't mean that they have to be perfect mothers, just that they fit that distinction and are not confused with objects of male desire. Here we may list Mrs. Palmer, Mrs. Hayward, Mrs. Tremond, etc. etc. I would say Lucy fits this role too - and while we see her connected with themes of sexuality (reproduction with multiple male partners, specifically), it's always through the guise of her eventually being a "mother" to the child - and in a way that makes us sort of unspokenly uncomfortable about the idea of Lucy even being sexual at all. Think about it; imagining Lucy and Andy in bed is like thinking of your parents making whoopie; gross, yet obviously a biological necessity for both.
On the other hand we have women who are (at times aggressively) sexually pursued - and you're right, there seem to be a lot more of them (which, truth be told, is kind of common for how we boys dream). Anyone from Audrey and Josie in the original series (Josie in particular played the "vulnerable girl" stereotype so perfectly, even while scheming), to Darya, Tammy, Shelly, Ronnette, Laura, etc. etc. You get the picture and there's no point naming them all.
What's really interesting is when the series has taken characters that would normally be depicted in more of the "motherly" role, due to their advanced age, and instead challenged the accepted norm by making them seem to be sexually active creatures that confuse our minds into lumping them into both groups; and here the best character representations are again Catherine and now Diane. As an homage to Catherine, we might say she had a toe dipped in both worlds.
You can also look at the way men are portrayed, and if we want to get really/creepy divisive (not my intention), look in particular at the way caucasian men are depicted. Every. Single. Bad. Guy. Leland, Bob, Mike, the Arm, Windom Earle, Richard Horne, Chad, Leo. Every scumbag, drug dealing, crime committing, woman-raping, incestual, homicidal lunatic in the series is basically a white guy.
So don't just feel sorry for the poor women. That's a typical male reaction to the stereotypical "damsel in distress". And really it just feeds our subconscious desire to think that those poor women "need" us to rescue them. Why, even the many faceted Audrey needed Cooper to come "rescue" her (after prayer) at One Eyed Jack's.
Oh darling, I do declare!
To be fair... the cast itself is overwhelmingly white so saying the "bad guys" are the white guys isn't saying much. I get your point... just sayin 😉
But it's a reflection of reality. The worst men in the world are those who beat their women. The Return is largely about evil, so it has to show men at their worst, which means showing them beating their women and running over children without showing remorse.
Okay, yeah, so it's also bad if a man beats another man, like what happened to the manager of the casino. Violence against anyone is awful. I personally don't think anyone should hit anyone. But when a man is violent against a woman who is clearly weaker than him, that proves that he is the lowest of the low.
To really believe that Mr C, Richard, and Steven are really awful people, we have to see them do the worst things. I mean, what kind of person fails to slam on their breaks when they see a kid run our into the road and then doesn't even bother to stop? What kind of person grabs his grandmother by the throat, takes her money, then calls her a c**t? What kind of man rapes a teenage girl while she's in hospital (although we didn't actually see that, it's just implied)?
If a guy steals a car or gets into a fight with another man, you just think he's a bit of a badass that you don't want to get on the wrong side of. If you see him throw his wife across the room, you know he's the worst kind of person ever. We're talking the difference between Bobby Briggs and Leo Johnson.
But it's a reflection of reality. The worst men in the world are those who beat their women. The Return is largely about evil, so it has to show men at their worst, which means showing them beating their women and running over children without showing remorse.
Okay, yeah, so it's also bad if a man beats another man, like what happened to the manager of the casino. Violence against anyone is awful. I personally don't think anyone should hit anyone. But when a man is violent against a woman who is clearly weaker than him, that proves that he is the lowest of the low.
To really believe that Mr C, Richard, and Steven are really awful people, we have to see them do the worst things. I mean, what kind of person fails to slam on their breaks when they see a kid run our into the road and then doesn't even bother to stop? What kind of person grabs his grandmother by the throat, takes her money, then calls her a c**t? What kind of man rapes a teenage girl while she's in hospital (although we didn't actually see that, it's just implied)?
If a guy steals a car or gets into a fight with another man, you just think he's a bit of a badass that you don't want to get on the wrong side of. If you see him throw his wife across the room, you know he's the worst kind of person ever. We're talking the difference between Bobby Briggs and Leo Johnson.
Well put. Anyone disagrees, I'll kick their ass. 😉
Ah, no. Can't hit a woman. Well, maybe if my life was in danger, and even then with a heavy heart and a bad conscience. Oh, and to protect my kids, no hesitation. Anyone - anyone at all - would be waking up with a crowd round them in that case.
Not the response I was looking for, but a response nonetheless. 🙂
Quite so. ?
Hitting a woman?
Think about it. If we strive for equality (as we should), surely a woman deserves the same treatment as a man, a human. Kindness, warmth, keen considered judgement and valour are to be heralded. 'Got a light?' can fuck right off.
Hitting a woman?
Think about it. If we strive for equality (as we should), surely a woman deserves the same treatment as a man, a human. Kindness, warmth, keen considered judgement and valour are to be heralded. 'Got a light?' can fuck right off.
Given the average guy is bigger and has more muscle mass than the average woman, and that most men are demonstrably more aggressive than most women it'd hardly be a fair fight.
That's not taking places like Newcastle or Barnsley into account, though, where some of the women are truly frightening.
Hitting a woman?
Think about it. If we strive for equality (as we should), surely a woman deserves the same treatment as a man, a human. Kindness, warmth, keen considered judgement and valour are to be heralded. 'Got a light?' can fuck right off
That's not taking places like Newcastle or Barnsley into account, though, where some of the women are truly frightening.
They have beards. Beards. Wowsers. All of a sudden, my johnson is silent.
Hitting a woman?
Think about it. If we strive for equality (as we should), surely a woman deserves the same treatment as a man, a human. Kindness, warmth, keen considered judgement and valour are to be heralded. 'Got a light?' can fuck right off
That's not taking places like Newcastle or Barnsley into account, though, where some of the women are truly frightening.
They have beards. Beards. Wowsers. All of a sudden, my johnson is silent.
No, they are the little girls. The women are worse. 😉
Despite everything I just said about hating violence against women, I also hate it when women hit men first and expect to get away with it. Even when I was a kid, there seemed to be this culture at school where the girls could slap the boys around whenever they felt annoyed with them, but the expectation was that the boys would never slap them back. So I'd like to emphasise my other point that I don't think anyone should hit anyone. Everyone should avoid violence against anyone else if at all possible.
On a related topic, I remember when I was at college when I was 19, there was a 20-year-old guy I knew who was a whole lot of trouble. One afternoon, on the way home on the bus, he got into an argument with a 13-year-old schoolgirl. I can't remember why, but knowing him it was all his fault. Anyway, he just wouldn't shut up, and eventually the girl got so frustrated she slapped him round the face, and he immediately slapped her back.
Oh, but wait, it gets darker. That guy has spent much of his 30s in prison for interfering with underage girls. It's where he belongs. He's just trouble. He tried to contact me last time he was out of prison, but I didn't respond. I refuse to have anything to do with him.
Saw something years ago that made me laugh; it was a proper "Serves you right" moment:
Young couple having a heated disagreement in the street, she walks off. Guy grabs her by the arm, pulls her round and slaps her face. So far, not good...
She then takes off her shoe (one of those really big, heavy platforms like the Spice Girls wore at the time) and starts to whale the crap out of him.
Justice was indeed served on that day.
No, some CHARACTERS have misogyny, NOT David Lynch/Mark Frost. HUGE difference. Read again what Sam wrote.
I have read what everyone wrote. Repeatedly asserting your position does not make it true, nor will it change the fact that others might have different opinions. You might need to get used to this, being online and all.
Fire walk with 
