I mean, the idea is kind of that they are all debatable... What about Windom Earle?
I personally think he was one of the worse things to happen to TP. I get the idea and I understand the need once the Laura Palmer mystery was solved. But IMHO, Earle was a clown and at no point in time did I feel that he was any actual threat to anybody or anything.
It would seem I wasn't alone in that either. He was originally after Shelley, Audrey & Donna and even they seemed uninterested. "Hmmm, we all got this weird piece of a letter and are being stalked by some (barely) creepy old guy. Oh well, I'm going home alone, see you tomorrow at school." Even their parents were less than worried. "There is a lunatic stalking my daughter. Let's do a beauty pageant!"
Cooper was pretty blase' about it too. "Psycho killer possibly after the love of my life......I'm an FBI agent who should either shut down this pageant or get some serious security detail.....Nope, let us carry on!"
Then all that ridiculous stuff with Leo (I was actually routing for Leo at that point) and dancing around in his long undies and playing the flute......
None of it made sense. None of it created suspense or concern for characters we had grown attached to or were just learning to love. I just shake my head in shame even thinking about it.
To me, Windom Earle was worse than James's song, and I REALLY hate that song.
Sorry to dig this up - just finished rewatching so there's a lot going on in my mind, most of which I cannot sort out 🙂
First, let me say that to me, personally, James's song is WAY worse than Windom Earle. It's just awful, the voice is disturbing (I really hope that James Marshall doesn't always sound like that when singing, if he sings at all), and it's just.. I don't know. Not my favourite song in the world.
However, Windom Earle is pretty much patterned - for Coop, he's what Lex Luthor is to Superman, what Moriarty is to Sherlock Holmes, what Murdoc is to MacGyver. He's an archetype. It's like: Every hero needs a counterpart, an archenemy to battle so Coop needs one too. But it felt forced. As you say, it didn't make much sense. I think Windom Earle was there just for the sake of it and/or because the network thought it'd be cool for Coop to have an archenemy. I very much doubt that David Lynch wanted this to happen to Coop. It was too... mundane. Too predictable. And if I know anything about David Lynch and his work (which isn't much, granted), it's that he's never, ever, predictable, mundane, trivial.
Yep, HATED that song and his singing. Really bad.
Look, James is cool and has always been cool. That's CANON. Therefore, his song is cool. QED
😛
(I really do like it, though)
I already offered my defense of Windom in this thread, I believe, and in the 25YL article I wrote, however briefly. I don't expect this is an issue that anyone can be really convinced on (much like with James' song), but I will say that I just absolutely resist the kind of parsing I feel is often involved in criticisms of Earle. That other writers were responsible, Lynch and Frost weren't that involved, and so on. All of that may be true, but I insist on viewing the totality of the work. Windom was a rather mundane villian, whose hubris was punished by the forces of the Lodge. Was that part of the original plan? I don't care. When Bob takes his soul, it is hilarious. And I now see a certain parallel between his story and Cooper's.
Did I say these things before? I must confess I didn't go back and read the whole thread...
I've always been ok with the James character but man, I could go my entire life without ever hearing that song again. Easily.
Look, James is cool and has always been cool. That's CANON. Therefore, his song is cool. QED
😛
(I really do like it, though)
I already offered my defense of Windom in this thread, I believe, and in the 25YL article I wrote, however briefly. I don't expect this is an issue that anyone can be really convinced on (much like with James' song), but I will say that I just absolutely resist the kind of parsing I feel is often involved in criticisms of Earle. That other writers were responsible, Lynch and Frost weren't that involved, and so on. All of that may be true, but I insist on viewing the totality of the work. Windom was a rather mundane villian, whose hubris was punished by the forces of the Lodge. Was that part of the original plan? I don't care. When Bob takes his soul, it is hilarious. And I now see a certain parallel between his story and Cooper's.
Did I say these things before? I must confess I didn't go back and read the whole thread...
I loved the idea of the chess moves and the fact that he knew stuff about the lodges.
I was really disapointed that there wasn't more storyline about him, the owl cave and the aliens.
And as I said before, I think Kenneth Welsh did a great job.
Look, James is cool and has always been cool. That's CANON. Therefore, his song is cool. QED
😛
(I really do like it, though)
I already offered my defense of Windom in this thread, I believe, and in the 25YL article I wrote, however briefly. I don't expect this is an issue that anyone can be really convinced on (much like with James' song), but I will say that I just absolutely resist the kind of parsing I feel is often involved in criticisms of Earle. That other writers were responsible, Lynch and Frost weren't that involved, and so on. All of that may be true, but I insist on viewing the totality of the work. Windom was a rather mundane villian, whose hubris was punished by the forces of the Lodge. Was that part of the original plan? I don't care. When Bob takes his soul, it is hilarious. And I now see a certain parallel between his story and Cooper's.
Did I say these things before? I must confess I didn't go back and read the whole thread...
I loved the idea of the chess moves and the fact that he knew stuff about the lodges.
I was really disapointed that there wasn't more storyline about him, the owl cave and the aliens.
And as I said before, I think Kenneth Welsh did a great job.
I agree. Windom Earle was awesome
I liked Windom. Campy maybe, but there's a long grievous list ahead of him at any rate.
And his affront to the lodges and BOB's response - more than just that I liked the scene, a lot, but I actually think it was an important piece of the mythology. When else has a 'soul' been even obliquely referenced? Bob takes souls? And why can't Earl? Did Bob feel offended, or even threatened? Also I think Mr. C's final etapa was patterned after what happened to Earl. It wouldn't be the same without him.
As opposed to the song... The song is a gatekeeper. If you're still watching after that you're in the club.
I mean, the idea is kind of that they are all debatable... What about Windom Earle?
I personally think he was one of the worse things to happen to TP. I get the idea and I understand the need once the Laura Palmer mystery was solved. But IMHO, Earle was a clown and at no point in time did I feel that he was any actual threat to anybody or anything.
It would seem I wasn't alone in that either. He was originally after Shelley, Audrey & Donna and even they seemed uninterested. "Hmmm, we all got this weird piece of a letter and are being stalked by some (barely) creepy old guy. Oh well, I'm going home alone, see you tomorrow at school." Even their parents were less than worried. "There is a lunatic stalking my daughter. Let's do a beauty pageant!"
Cooper was pretty blase' about it too. "Psycho killer possibly after the love of my life......I'm an FBI agent who should either shut down this pageant or get some serious security detail.....Nope, let us carry on!"
Then all that ridiculous stuff with Leo (I was actually routing for Leo at that point) and dancing around in his long undies and playing the flute......
None of it made sense. None of it created suspense or concern for characters we had grown attached to or were just learning to love. I just shake my head in shame even thinking about it.
To me, Windom Earle was worse than James's song, and I REALLY hate that song.
Sorry to dig this up - just finished rewatching so there's a lot going on in my mind, most of which I cannot sort out 🙂
First, let me say that to me, personally, James's song is WAY worse than Windom Earle. It's just awful, the voice is disturbing (I really hope that James Marshall doesn't always sound like that when singing, if he sings at all), and it's just.. I don't know. Not my favourite song in the world.
However, Windom Earle is pretty much patterned - for Coop, he's what Lex Luthor is to Superman, what Moriarty is to Sherlock Holmes, what Murdoc is to MacGyver. He's an archetype. It's like: Every hero needs a counterpart, an archenemy to battle so Coop needs one too. But it felt forced. As you say, it didn't make much sense. I think Windom Earle was there just for the sake of it and/or because the network thought it'd be cool for Coop to have an archenemy. I very much doubt that David Lynch wanted this to happen to Coop. It was too... mundane. Too predictable. And if I know anything about David Lynch and his work (which isn't much, granted), it's that he's never, ever, predictable, mundane, trivial.
For me, I actually like Windom and think Kenneth Welsh did a great job. I just think that his story is nowhere near as interesting as what preceeded it so it inevitably suffers by comparison. It doesn't help that it's surrounded by weak material elsewhere (James and Evelyn for example, John Justice Wheeler).
But imagine an original run where Season 2 ended with Leiland killing Maddie. The network gets what it wants but the auidence will want to know, after such a shocking scene, why he kills and how he's going to be caught. So then you could have had a season 3 where Coop and the gang are trying to catch the killer, with Leiland trying to escape detection and find new targets to abuse. Every interaction between Leiland and Coop would crackle with tension for the audience.
To make more matters more difficult for Coop, imagine if they ran the Windham Earle underneath the 'catching Leiland' storyline. It distracts Coop because he wonders if Windham was the killer along, which gives Leiland some sneaking room. Coop would be challenged by confronting his nemesis whilst hunting the killer also. Between Leiland and Windham this would establish the Black Lodge mythology nicely. You could have Coop think he's run Windham out of town, have Leiland kill himself in jail in the penultimate episode as we've seen, only in the last minute or so for Windham to reappear and kidnap Annie (or Audrey or whoever - and it doesnt have to be at Miss Twin Peaks either.) Then you would have the final episode as seen, at least the Coop/Red Room parts. You'd still end in the same place with Dopple Coop laughing in the mirror. And maybe that would have been enough to greenlight a 4th season and who knows where it could have gone and for how long?
Anyway, I digress ? I think Windham was good, he was just misused. And also, I must be the only person in the world who like James' song. Not James, mind. Just the song.
However, Windom Earle is pretty much patterned - for Coop, he's what Lex Luthor is to Superman, what Moriarty is to Sherlock Holmes, what Murdoc is to MacGyver.
I love those three villains. Moriarty is a genuinely brilliant terrorist, who is only matched in brains by Sherlock. The more than implied threat that if Sherlock is somehow put out of the game for good, there's probably no one left who can stop Moriarty from doing whatever he wants, makes him absolutely terrifying. Unlike Windom Earle and BOB, he doesn't look dangerous, in the slightest. He's short and extremely ordinary-looking, which roots him in reality despite his over-the-top evil.
Lex Luthor wasn't evil from the start. He's an interesting case of a character becoming more and more disheartened and corrupted, until he embrased his dark side and let it set the course. Almost like Darth Vader, but with a better arc.
Murdoch... I'm sorry, but I love him for how ridiculous he is, and how he always shouts "MacGyyyyverrrrr!" when he falls to his next "death."
Personally, I don't really think Windom Earle can top any of them.
Look, James is cool and has always been cool. That's CANON. Therefore, his song is cool. QED
😛
(I really do like it, though)
I already offered my defense of Windom in this thread, I believe, and in the 25YL article I wrote, however briefly. I don't expect this is an issue that anyone can be really convinced on (much like with James' song), but I will say that I just absolutely resist the kind of parsing I feel is often involved in criticisms of Earle. That other writers were responsible, Lynch and Frost weren't that involved, and so on. All of that may be true, but I insist on viewing the totality of the work. Windom was a rather mundane villian, whose hubris was punished by the forces of the Lodge. Was that part of the original plan? I don't care. When Bob takes his soul, it is hilarious. And I now see a certain parallel between his story and Cooper's.
Did I say these things before? I must confess I didn't go back and read the whole thread...
I, too like the song. Didn't Lynch write the lyrics? It's not the kind of song I would usually like, but I think it works perfectly in the context of Twin Peaks.
As for Earle, I think he was introduced as a potential threat to Cooper in the first or second episode of season 2, when Lynch and Frost were very much involved. It could have even been in an episode Frost wrote and Lynch directed. For what it's worth.
Hey, I'm not saying that Earle didn't have potential. He could have been a great super-villain. But he just wasn't and I don't know if the writing is to blame or all the guess directors they had at that time. He just became a buffoon, so much so that the people he was stalking weren't even concerned about him.
Fire walk with