Yep. Lynch-Frost outsmarted themselves. The end is so ambiguous and wide open - so annoyingly Inland Mulholland Highway (been there, done that) that every wild interpretation is possible. Some of the interpretations are very interesting. Some are so purely speculative that you could chase yourself through infinite dimensions, time periods, personality splits, and schizophrenias.
The season had moments of sheer brilliance. Totally subliminal circular dream logic deep dark human shit. The end was a 100% cop out and rehash of previous Lynch movies, imposing disintegration on a beautifully imagined world that didn't need it.
I've kinda stopped reading fan theories on the end. None of them are any more or less plausible than any others. Or not substantially enough to matter.
Great show. Totally shit ending.
I agree.
Lynch is...in a way...becoming predictable.
Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive, Inland Empire and the Return are all essentially the same story...or at least the same mechanics.
Dual identities, timelines, dream worlds...etc.
All of them use those mechanics to explore a different facet of life, but in the end, they are essentially the same movie.
I was never a fan of Lost Highway (too grim and lifeless) but thought Mulholland Drive was such a perfect movie that those mechanics never needed to be used again. He did it again in Inland Empire though and while it was becoming somewhat stale...I liked that insane movie.
...but to use it again in Twin Peaks, an established universe, was the boiling point for me. Using those mechanics, again, destroyed a universe I loved just to mimic films he's already made.
That is frustrating and disappointing.
I think they placed plenty things in this movie, that this can blow up our imagination. Plenty of theories. BUT if you read this theories, everyone's have holes. Some people don't want to hear about holes, they are just "IT IS IT" because some peoples need to make an over. This his human brain, he starts things and over things. When things are not done, we feel uncertain. So the easiest way to STOP and FORGET is just take this one: Coop is sitting in Black Lodge and all season 3 is a dream, then stop reading any forums about it 🙂 But there are a few people who like that un done things and uncertain feelings. That's why Lynch films will be always only for margins of society.
I kind of agree with you. They set up so many story arcs, by the end they just didn't have time to resolve them all. So they threw Part 18 in our faces.
The ironic thing is, if there wasn't so much time wasted throughout the season with all the slow scenes, they could have packed so much more into each episode and had so much more time to resolve the story arcs. We didn't need to spend ages watching people sat in a car or having fake-sounding conversations and staring blankly at each other. 9 episodes of story dragged out across 18 episodes.
And you're right, if it's so open to interpretation that any fan theory is possible, it's kind of a cop out in terms of storytelling. We could be here forever trying to make things fit.
I find it striking that Lynch compares his filmwork to music. The meaning always has to be intuited. There's plenty of room for discussion, but I think objective interpretation will always be as far out of reach as it would be for discussion of an instrumental piece. To me, this doesn't take away from the art at all. I just think it means it shouldn't neccessarily be approached like any simple old narrative, as much as our brains may tend to crave that sort of order when it comes to the concept of a story.
Mulholland is enjoyable as a 2-hour experimental movie. In Twin Peaks you get attached to characters and it's never a good idea to play with them as if they were experimental. I already expressed my fears before the final episode was shown actually. When you've devoted time to something you want to be satisfied in the end. Loose ties are okay but twin peaks isn't part of Lynch's universe, it's part of frost & Lynch's, which was always more grounded with a strong dose of eeriness.
In the end I think I'm more mad at frost because he didn't bother to throw a lifeline at us. Lynch, I'm fine with him, we all know he's that way. Twin peaks was more grounded because he only directed a few episodes (arguably the best). If we hadn't seen frost with his dog in an episode, I'd have a hard time believing he was part of the show at all.
Anyway... the first 17 parts were so great. Had they closed a few more critical threads like Audrey's and a few storyline details (including details on the lodges and its residents), I'd have been fine with a weird ending.
Maybe Lynch shot 18 hours, edited 17 hours and the rest will be on the Blu-ray box ahah...
I agree.
Lynch is...in a way...becoming predictable.
Lost Highway, Mulholland Drive, Inland Empire and the Return are all essentially the same story...or at least the same mechanics.
Dual identities, timelines, dream worlds...etc.
All of them use those mechanics to explore a different facet of life, but in the end, they are essentially the same movie.
I was never a fan of Lost Highway (too grim and lifeless) but thought Mulholland Drive was such a perfect movie that those mechanics never needed to be used again. He did it again in Inland Empire though and while it was becoming somewhat stale...I liked that insane movie.
...but to use it again in Twin Peaks, an established universe, was the boiling point for me. Using those mechanics, again, destroyed a universe I loved just to mimic films he's already made.
That is frustrating and disappointing.
Yes, this is exactly how I feel and well expressed.
I think perhaps that newer TP fans who haven't seen Lynch's last few movies might have enjoyed this ending more b/c the "mechanics," as you say, seem fresh. Whereas many of us veterans are boiling over the rehash.
Yep. Lynch-Frost outsmarted themselves. The end is so ambiguous and wide open - so annoyingly Inland Mulholland Highway (been there, done that) that every wild interpretation is possible. Some of the interpretations are very interesting. Some are so purely speculative that you could chase yourself through infinite dimensions, time periods, personality splits, and schizophrenias.
The season had moments of sheer brilliance. Totally subliminal circular dream logic deep dark human shit. The end was a 100% cop out and rehash of previous Lynch movies, imposing disintegration on a beautifully imagined world that didn't need it.
I've kinda stopped reading fan theories on the end. None of them are any more or less plausible than any others. Or not substantially enough to matter.
Great show. Totally shit ending.
Yes, so may plot points (too many to list) that were hit hard and then dropped. All those scenes with The Log Lady providing all of that information... none of it came to pass. They dissed the Log Lady! HERESY!
Let's not confuse fanwank theories with what Lynch/Frost created.
If I say that episode 4 of Twin Peaks: the Return is linked to the poisoning of the Flint water supply by space-lizards, it does not make it so.
If I call you a banana it does not make you a banana.
I think you're approaching it from the wrong angle.
Assume that not all theories are possible, then try to narrow it down further. At the very least, you'll have something to occupy your intellect for a while and you never know, you may even find the answer.
It's always better to travel hopefully.
I don't believe we need to know the why's and how's of everything.
Cooper awoke. Mr. C gone. Bob gone. Dougie back. =The Return.
Cooper's heroic infinite quest. =Episode 18.
If we take Twin Peaks as an 18 hour art film or TV series, then it will naturally be subjected to different interpretations. This doesn't mean that all are possible or acceptable: you should dismiss those theories that don't apply logic, reasoning, symbolism or analogy as it relates to the show.
And being open to varied expositions does not render Twin Peaks theories or the show meaningless. Many, if not most great works of art and literature are subject to varied forms of critical examination.
If Lynch and Frost took the easy way out because Twin Peaks can be understood in so many ways, then Coleridge, Shakespeare, Giorgione and other artists are guilty of the same thing.
While I agree that there are problems with Twin Peaks I neither agree with the premise of this thread, nor its application to this show. Starting with the latter point, not all theories are possible with this show. Dozens, if not hundreds of theories have been posted in this forum alone, and a large number of those cannot possibly be correct for logical, factual reasons. Even if they could all be correct, there is no reason to believe they can't also be meaningful. Is meaning diluted? Perhaps. Somewhat, but I don't believe all theories become meaningless in such a case. Less meaningful != meaningless, and besides, meaning is in the eye of the beholder.
I don't put it past Lynch to make it "look" that way, but be doing something else.
Oh, and FYI, Mullohand Drive was supposed to be a series, not just a movie
And I heard a rumour that Lynch once said Lost Highway was in the same "universe" as Twin Peaks. Now I can't validate that now but will look for proof
I'm starting to feel the same way. After lots of thinking about all this, I have an interpretation in my head that satisfies me pretty well, and I find myself looking at lots of things through that lens. The thing is, everyone else has their own lens, and you can make a damned impressive argument to justify lots of them. Yet they're... All. Completely. Different. At this point, most of us aren't even talking about the same show anymore.
It's like Lynch gave us a jigsaw puzzle with only about 30% of the pieces. The rest could be filled in to form any number of "equally valid" pictures.
And part of me actually thinks that's cool. Lynch must've wanted it that way or he wouldn't have done this. But at the same time I know there must be some concept in his head for what this was actually all about, and the rest of us are writing elaborate fan fiction, even if we don't mean to.
Fire walk with